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@Embodied: Why would an Arahant (or a Buddha) NOT experience kamma vipaka? Why do you think they should not experience kamma vipaka DURING their lives?
Another question on anantariya kamma came up in a recent discussion, and I realized that I did not clarify what is meant by “anantariya” above. So, here is what I posted in the recent discussion:
Most of the questions can be easily resolved if one understands the meaning of the Pali terms involved.
Anantariya is “na” + “an” + “antara“. That rhymes as “ānantara”.
Anatta is the negation of “atta” or having refuge/having substance: “na” + “atta” (which rhymes as “anatta”): there is no substance/ does not hold any ultimate truth; see, “Anatta – the Opposite of Which Atta?“.
Words like this cannot be analyzed grammatically. This is why current Pāli experts are wrong in interpreting such words (and are unable to interpret many key words).
Going back to the word “anantariya“: “An” or “anu” means “food” or “kamma seed” depending on where it is used. “na” means “not”. “antara” means somewhere away. Therefore, anantariya means “not stored away” in the sense that it bring vipaka “right away”.
When one does a kamma that is NOT anantariya, its kammic energy is “stored away” and can bring suitable kamma vipaka, when suitable CONDITIONS appear. Some kamma vipaka may not be realized for many lives simply because suitable conditions had not appeared.
However, an anantariya kamma means it will bring vipaka, at the end of the current life. “Right away” does not mean at that moment, but at death, because that is when the gandhabba comes out and is not shielded from the “dense human body”.
Such “extremely strong” kamma are five: killing one’s mother, killing one’s father, killing an Arahant, shedding the blood of a Buddha, creating schism within Sangha.
Any of those five kammas will override any existing other kamma vipaka, to bring next birth in the apayas. That is what is meant by an anantariya kamma. If there are any more questions left, please feel free to ask.
Any other kamma vipaka can be overcome by attaining a magga phala (at least the Sotapanna stage). For example, if one has “apayagami kamma vipaka” waiting to bear fruit (as almost all normal humans do), attaining the Sotapanna stage will OVERRIDE those kamma vipaka.
Attaining a magga phala does NOT mean the removal of kammic energies for such previous kamma. It just means, suitable conditions to bring such kamma vipaka will NEVER materialize in the future. To put it in another way: at the dying moment, a Sotapanna WILL NOT grasp (upadana) a birth in the apayas. His/her mindset has PERMANENTLY changed. This is why Angulimala became free of the apayas, even though he killed 999 people. That was not an anantariya kamma. Only those five kamma listed above are anantariya kamma.
@Embodied: Isn’t that what I just explained? Please think before making comments. This discussion board is cluttered with unnecessary questions/comments like this.
Hereafter, I am just going to delete such questions/comments. They do not serve any purpose. If something was not clear, you need to state WHAT you did not understand and WHY what I wrote did not make sense.
Please understand that I cannot “make someone understand” a given concept. Only thing I CAN DO is to explain to the best of my ability. No one is paying me to do this, and I am doing this out of compassion. It is up to each person to make an EFFORT to understand.
You said: “..you mentioned in a post that bats changed their next birth by listening to Nobles recite Dhamma in a cave.”
Bats or any animal cannot learn Dhamma. What happens in such situations is the following.
Any living being has both good and bad kamma vipaka waiting to come to fruition, under suitable conditions. Kamma beeja work just like normal seeds. We know that seeds can be kept for thousands of years without germinating. But if those seeds are given suitable conditions (put in soil and provide water, sun light and nutrients) and they will then germinate.
In the same way, those bats had good kamma vipaka (to gain human birth) from the past lives. When they were listening to those Dhamma recitals, their minds got calmed down (not by understanding Dhamma, but by the soothing tone), and those good kamma vipaka were able to come to their minds at their dying moment (apparently something happened for all of them to die while listening to those chantings). So, they were all born human due to those “old” kamma vipaka.
Buddha Dhamma is deep and has many facets. It will take time to understand various subtle points. Life is very complex.
In principle, a gandhabba can learn Dhamma while in paralowa. But it is unlikely.
Humans are unique in the following way. Our brains act as the intermediary between the external world and our minds (our thoughts/sankhara are generated in hadaya vatthu). The neocortex in the brain “slows down” our reactions to external sense inputs, and can force us from making spontaneous reactions; see, “Truine Brain: How the Mind Rewires the Brain via Meditation/Habits“.
On the other hand, gandhabbas “just go with flow”. Whatever sankhara one used to cultivate in a human body, are likely to be cultivated in the same direction.
I am not sure what you meant in the question: “And is it possible to change it’s future parents, jati or even attain Nibbāna from the previous cuti-patisandhi moment at death?”.
@y not: Your questions are probably answered in the comment that I just posted in “Anantariya Kamma, Euthanasia and Assisted Suicides“.
If not, feel free to ask any remaining questions.
Most of the questions can be easily resolved if one understands the meaning of the Pali terms involved.
Anantariya is “na” + “an” + “antara“. That rhymes as “ānantara”.
Anatta is the negation of “atta” or having refuge/having substance: “na” + “atta” (which rhymes as “anatta”): there is no substance/ does not hold any ultimate truth; see, “Anatta – the Opposite of Which Atta?“.
Words like this cannot be analyzed grammatically. This is why current Pāli experts are wrong in interpreting such words (and are unable to interpret many key words).
Going back to the word “anantariya“: “An” or “anu” means “food” or “kamma seed” depending on where it is used. “na” means “not”. “antara” means somewhere away. Therefore, anantariya means “not stored away” in the sense that it bring vipaka “right away”.
When one does a kamma that is NOT anantariya, its kammic energy is “stored away” and can bring suitable kamma vipaka, when suitable CONDITIONS appear. Some kamma vipaka may not be realized for many lives simply because suitable conditions had not appeared.
However, an anantariya kamma means it will bring vipaka, at the end of the current life. “Right away” does not mean at that moment, but at death, because that is when the gandhabba comes out and is not shielded from the “dense human body”.
Such “extremely strong” kamma are five: killing one’s mother, killing one’s father, killing an Arahant, shedding the blood of a Buddha, creating schism within Sangha.
Any of those five kammas will override any existing other kamma vipaka, to bring next birth in the apayas. That is what is meant by an anantariya kamma. If there are any more questions left, please feel free to ask.
Any other kamma vipaka can be overcome by attaining a magga phala (at least the Sotapanna stage). For example, if one has “apayagami kamma vipaka” waiting to bear fruit (as almost all normal humans do), attaining the Sotapanna stage will OVERRIDE those kamma vipaka.
Attaining a magga phala does NOT mean the removal of kammic energies for such previous kamma. It just means, suitable conditions to bring such kamma vipaka will NEVER materialize in the future. To put it in another way: at the dying moment, a Sotapanna WILL NOT grasp (upadana) a birth in the apayas. His/her mindset has PERMANENTLY changed. This is why Angulimala became free of the apayas, even though he killed 999 people. That was not an anantariya kamma. Only those five kamma listed above are anantariya kamma.
This is a common misconception that we have discussed before. But since it is important, let me explain it again.
The actual “intention” (cetana) is what kind of mental factors (cetasika) arise in one’s mind. That critically depends on one’s views (ditthi). This is a CRITICAL thing that many people do not understand.
Let us take this animal sacrifice. Those who engage in that believe that it will be beneficial to them. What they believe DOES NOT MATTER.
What matters is whether a given action involves one or more dasa akusala, and if so it will bring bad kamma vipaka.
In the case of this animal sacrifice, there are TWO akusala involved: One is killing animals. The second is the wrong view (micca ditthi) that animal sacrifice (killing of animals) leads to benefits (good kamma vipaka) for them. The second one is an even stronger akusala.
This is why one’s intention may not be what one thinks it is. In this case, those people are happy to carry out this bad kamma and they expect good vipaka (benefits), based on their wrong views. They THINK and BELIEVE that have good intentions. But they do not.
This is why it is important to study and understand what the 10 types of micca ditthi are, and make sure one does not engage in them.
More information can be found at:
“adding kamma vs. receiving vipaka”I strongly suggest reading both. This is a critical issue to understand.
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@ Uyap: Please pay attention to Grammar when you ask a question. I was too late to catch and correct this one. I had corrected one of your posts previously. As a courtesy to others, we need to pay attention and formulate question topics and the text to be clear.
The short answer to your question is: Not knowing the law is not an excuse in a court-of-Law. In the same way, not knowing Nature’s laws (Buddha Dhamma) is not an excuse. This is the main reason that most living beings are trapped in the suffering-filled rebirth process.
There are some aeons where not a single Buddha is born. Each aeon is many billions of years. Even when a Buddha is born, his teachings do not last more than several thousand years, before they get distorted and then totally disappear. This is why we need to take advantage of our opportunity now.
Y not said: “Going down the list of Buddhas antecedent to those 5, the names of the towns and parents and personal attendants etc. of those Buddhas are also Indian-sounding. How is this? How does it come about that previous generations of the solar system produced the same culture(s), not to say the same locations present now?”
This is why the Buddha said not to get into these discussions. It can get very deep, and one could easily spend an entire lifetime thinking about these issues (this belong to “loka visaya” which is one of the “unthinkable” or “acinteyya” subjects); see, “Acinteyya Sutta (AN 4.77)“. English translation there: “Unconjecturable“.
But I assure you that these do have explanations. I don’t want to spend anymore time going deeper. I do understand the curiosity and desire, but these take precious time from more fruitful discussions. However, some of these things will become clear as one proceeds, even without thinking directly about them.
As to the rest of your question: Yes. All those Buddhas were born in this recycled Solar system (Cakkavata in Buddha Dhamma). As a Cakkavata goes through these cycles, the “average gati” of innumerable living beings and hence the Cakkavata that arises have many common features. A Buddha is ALWAYS born in what is called the “Madhya pradesa” close to the equator, in a country that speaks Maghadi (predecessor to Pali), which is the “natural language” of the brahmas in the abhassara brahma realm. A Buddha ALWAYS attains Buddhahood under a special tree (different trees for different Buddhas) that is born at the same time as that Buddha, etc, etc.
And I have already pointed out that science is evolving. Many scientific theories about the universe have changed drastically even during the past 100 years.
@C.Saket. You said:
In the post : Rupa – Generation mechanism, it is said that:
“…Those 8 rupas (patavi, apo, tejo, vayo, vanna, gandha, rasa, oja) and the akasa dhatu are produced by all four causes (kamma, citta, utu, ahara).”You are correct. That was a mistake on my part since akasa dhatu is an anipphanna rupa (see below) and I have removed that sentence.
Thanks for pointing it out.The important point is that the 18 types of rupa (nipphanna rupa) on the left hand side of the Table in “Rupa (Material Form) – Table” are those produced by mechanisms directly related to the mind.
– Those 10 on the right-side of the Table, including akasa dhatu, are called anipphanna rupa (abstract rupa). I suspect these rupa are more like “mechanisms/principles”.
– I do not feel confident to say anymore, since I do not have a comfortable understanding on anipphanna rupa.@C.Saket:
You quoted me as saying:“Violation of any of the five precepts, in many cases, is not an apayagami act. For example, telling a lie is an akusala kamma, but it is not an apayagami act.”.In the context of what I said, it should have been clear that it was a slip on my part. I should have said: For example, telling a lie is an akusala kamma, but not necessarily an apayagami act).
Anyway, I have made an addendum to my earlier post to clarify it.
Let us stay away from discussing Bhagavath Gita, Vedas, etc.
This will only lead to confusion. I will show in a series of posts in the future that all that originated from the teachings of the Kassapa Buddha, who was there before the Gotama Buddha (in fact there have been 3 Buddhas before the Gotama Buddha in this life cycle of the Earth).
Those teachings of Kassapa Buddha were transmitted as Vedas, and got distorted with time, as we can imagine from what is happening even now, with many concepts already distorted in Mahāyāna Buddhism and even in Theravada Buddhism.
This was pointed out by the Gotama Buddha in several suttas: that what was being taught by Vedic brahmins were distorted teachings of the Kassapa Buddha. I need to find those suttas.
It is not an accident that most terms in the Vedas as the same as Buddhist. But of course the details are very different. In fact, my suggestion to anyone interested in the Vedas is to do a systematic study; it will become clear that they are not inter-consistent.
I just came across the following article on the internet: “BUDDHISM AND ITS VEDIC CONNECTIONS“.
– There is stated:”To begin with, it was several hundred years before the time of Lord Buddha that his birth was predicted in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: “In the beginning of the age of Kali, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in the province of Gaya as Lord Buddha, the son of Anjana, to bewilder those who are always envious of the devotees of the Lord.” (Bhag.1.3.24)”
– That is because the Kassapa Buddha taught at his time about the upcoming Gotama Buddha, just as the Gotama Buddha has taught about the upcoming Maithreya Buddha (who would be the last Buddha to appear on this Earth before it is destroyed).Anyone interested in discussing this issue can open a new topic “Vedas and Buddhism” and we can discuss it there. But let us not bring Vedic teachings to discussions on concepts in Buddha Dhamma. That will only lead to confusion.
– In fact, as I mentioned before, please do not bring ANY other philosophical issues to these discussions on Dhamma concepts. This website is based ONLY on the Tipitaka. If we go outside of that, we will not have any inter-consistency.First of all, please pay attention to Grammar when posting. This question is a good one, but the topic title was not formulated right. I just changed it to: “Mind Creates Matter, What creates the Mind?”.
y not said: “So this means that the individuality (of every singular ‘mind’ ) persists after the attainment of Nibbana”
After attaining Nibbana, there is no “individuality” left in this world of 31 realms, i.e., there is no rebirth. Please read the subsection on “Nibbana“.
The “lifestream” of an individual ceases to exist in this world of 31 realms: “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“.
Also read: “Nibbāna “Exists”, but Not in This World“.
This question keeps coming up in different forms. Please make sure to understand what is meant by Nibbana. If not clear, let us get it resolved here.
