May 26, 2018 at 10:47 pm #16027
Non buddhist which is majority of current human population, not believe in rebirth & 31 realm. What will happen to them in next rebirth ?
This concern is part of my metta chanting :
“May all being in all universe free from suffering and attain nibbana”
May 27, 2018 at 4:04 am #16029firewnsParticipant
Hi Uyap, if I am not wrong, having micca ditthi will not directly cause one to be reborn in the apayas. However, it could be a precursor to one committing dasa akusala and that could possibly bring about rebirth in the apayas.
Using paticca samuppada to illustrate this further (here I may need Lal’s or Akvan’s or other forumner’s help to correct any errors), micca ditthi due to avijja paccaya (or causes) sankhara, which could be mano sankhara (unconscious or conscious thoughts which are not yet voiced out in one’s mind), vaci sankhara (conscious thoughts voiced out in one’s mind as inner speech or outer speech spoken aloud) or kaya sankhara (bodily actions). These sankara could be akusala.
Akusala sankhara paccaya vinnana, which are defiled states of mindset. Examples of vinnana caused by micca ditthi would be greedy, lustful or hateful states of mind due to the belief that there is no rebirth and one must enjoy one’s life to the fullest before it comes to an end. Any one who gets in the way of sensual enjoyment would cause one to generate hateful thoughts towards the person.
Vinnana paccaya sankhara, which in this case would be vaci sankhara or kaya sankhara, as it would have been deliberated upon and would no longer arise so automatically like some mano sankhara. These sankhara can further paccaya vinnana (to strengthen those defiled states of mind and asavas and gathis), or they can paccaya avijja, and the being becomes even more steeped in ignorance.
Furthermore, the later links of patticca samuppada could be put into motion, and namarupa, salyatana, samphassa, vedana, tanha, upadana, bhava, jati, decay and passing away would happen inevitably unless stopped at some opportune moments by mindfulness
Thus someone with micca ditthi would continue to have a tendency towards harbouring micca ditthi, and may be reborn in the human realm or the apayas, or even the deva realms depending upon one’s gathi. For example, someone who does not believe in rebirth may still have a generous and loving nature and predominantly do those deeds, and be reborn in the deva realms upon passing away. However, those devas with micca ditthi would eventually have to be reborn in the human realms or apayas in future, due to akusala or kusala kamma they had committed in past lives. In the human realm, they may encounter conditions that paccaya akusala kamma being generated in their lives, and thus they may be reborn in the apayas thereafter.
Thus it is good for even non-Buddhists to maintain an open mindset to ideas like rebirth and kamma vipakka, even if they are firm believers of their own religions. Even non-Buddhists should still practise sila to keep themselves out of trouble with the law, and to maintain harmonious relations with those around them, so as to enjoy as pleasant a life as they can manage.
In time to come, their minds may start to experience niramisa sukkha and they may start to slowly but truly come to believe more and more in some of the tenets of Buddhism, as they would have come to experience as such in their lives. Buddhism is after all a very practical teaching, and can be verified empirically with one’s six senses and personal experience at a basic level, once one stops resisting Buddhist beliefs.
Even then, they should be aware of the viparinama nature of their lives, and how truly helpless they can be when unexpected calamities or misfortunes strike (anatta).
May 27, 2018 at 8:23 pm #16055LalKeymaster
@ Uyap: Please pay attention to Grammar when you ask a question. I was too late to catch and correct this one. I had corrected one of your posts previously. As a courtesy to others, we need to pay attention and formulate question topics and the text to be clear.
The short answer to your question is: Not knowing the law is not an excuse in a court-of-Law. In the same way, not knowing Nature’s laws (Buddha Dhamma) is not an excuse. This is the main reason that most living beings are trapped in the suffering-filled rebirth process.
There are some aeons where not a single Buddha is born. Each aeon is many billions of years. Even when a Buddha is born, his teachings do not last more than several thousand years, before they get distorted and then totally disappear. This is why we need to take advantage of our opportunity now.
May 27, 2018 at 9:48 pm #16056
I’m sorry for my bad english, if trigger wrong sanna.
May 27, 2018 at 11:38 pm #16059LalKeymaster
No problem, Uyap. Just do the best you can. Thanks.
May 28, 2018 at 12:03 am #16061AkvanParticipant
The only method to be 100% certain that one will not end up being re-born in one of the lower realms is to become a sotapanna. This is true for Buddhists and non-buddhists a like.
When practicing the metta bavana, if one is to wish for all beings to attain nibbana, the only way that can happen is if they understand the dhamma. So we can even wish saying “may all beings understand this Dhamma, eliminate the chance of being born in the lower realms and be free from all suffering by attaining nibbana.”
Although this may sound selfish, each person has to understand the Dhamma for himself. No amount of metta bavana will lead to someone else to understand the dhamma. Also it is foolish for us to think that we can get the infinite number of beings to attain nibbana (by say teaching them the Dhamma or in any other way). If this could have been done, the Buddha would have done it. So the only thing we can do is hope / wish that everyone will be able to understand this dhamma and attain nibbana. This emitting of metta can help them and that’s all we could do.
Interestingly the Budha didn’t categorise people as Buddhists and non-buddhists. The categorisation was pruthakjana and arya shrawaka i.e. people who have not attained at least the sotapanna anugami stage and others who have.
May 28, 2018 at 12:33 am #16065
Lal, Akvan & Firewns,
Thanks for the explanation that increase my understanding.
Yes, it is similar to “pig butcher” Chunda Sukara story, even though we knew it but can’t do anything.
Just, my curious in realm 6th and above, are there any teachings other than Buddha Dhamma ?
September 23, 2018 at 8:24 am #18516y notParticipant
I was reading through somewhat old posts and came across this excellent last comment by Akvan.
Lal says somewhere that the practical value of Metta Bhavana, in contrast with the mere wishing ,and in truer terms the futility of it all as far as the attainment of Nibbana of those beings is concerned, is that Metta Bhavana helps cleanse one’s OWN mind.
For, if Metta Bhavana had any real effect on the beings in the whole of Existence, and keeping in mind that it would necessarily have been going on from ‘an indiscernible beginning’, suffering would likewise not only be eliminated by now, but would have been eliminated at a point likewise indiscernible in the past, i.e., there would be no such point, and the validity of the first Noble Truth, to start with, that the Buddhas ever teach would not apply, and would never have applied…and there would be no end to the dizzying ramifications that arise and no way out of the tangle.
Akvan has it in different words. My own reason for sharing Akvan’s view that – ‘No amount of metta bavana will lead to someone else to understand the dhamma. Also it is foolish for us to think that we can get the infinite number of beings to attain nibbana (by say teaching them the Dhamma or in any other way)’ – is, as ever with me, that ‘It must be so because it cannot be otherwise’. (for the reason given in the preceding para): There is suffering. It is the Dhamma proclaimed by all the Buddhas and that Dhamma does not change, therefore suffering always will be. It is only ‘individual’beings that can be free of suffering – through that Dhamma.
So, when I am doing Bhavana I concentrate on Pattidana, the Metta Bhavana serving only as a door to enter into the first. For IT IS A FACT that we are indebted to an innumerable number of beings, and so are they likewise indebted to us. The merits thus transferred do IN ACTUAL FACT serve to pay off those debts, helping to reduce the time spent in sansara for both giver and receiver (it would appear) because ultimately, the cessation of suffering in sansara will depend on those beings attaining Magga Phala, thus leading to the nullifying of all debts contracted in sansara.
(still !) Metta to all beings
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