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I may have given a wrong impression.
I have no doubts that a mind is much faster than any computer. In fact, it is entirely possible that when fully in the “monodvara“, there can indeed be billions of citta flowing in the mind. This happens when one is in a jhana samapatti (where the jhana citta flows without interruption) or phala samapatti (where the phala citta flows without interruption).
However, when a sense input comes through one of the five PHYSICAL sense faculties (eyes,ears,nose, tongue, and the body), that signal has to be first processed by the brain, as I discussed : “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body“.
According to the scientists, it takes times of the order of milliseconds (thousandth of a second) to process such signals. In the recent post, “Amazingly Fast Time Evolution of a Thought (Citta)“, I in fact showed that the process in the “monodvara” must be very fast (matching with billions of citta per second).
So, basically I would like to see some reference in the Tipitaka about how fast these pancdvara citta vithi can be.
– To put it in another way, is there a mention in the Tipitaka how many manodvara EVENTS can take place per second? The 17 citta within that citta vithi is likely to flow at the rate of billions of citta per second.There is no way that any single person can read and understand the whole Tipitaka. I have no problem of having faith in what Waharaka Thero taught, because it is all self-consistent. I started reading the suttas only in 2017, after the Parinibbana of the Waharaka Thero, and I have not seen a single piece of contradiction yet.
It is just that when an intriguing point like this comes up, it is good to find out more details from the Tipitaka if possible.
It is also possible that there is no specific mention of these processes in detail in the Tipitaka. It is impossible to describe all the details, especially since the Tipitaka was designed to be transmitted orally and was transmitted orally for several hundred years, before it was written down.
One more point: It is also not necessary to learn all these details about how the mind works, in order to attain any magga phala. If one can grasp the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature, that is all that is needed.
– But another goal that I have is to get a complete description of these “mind processes” as much as possible. It is fascinating, and it shows how deep Buddha Dhamma can go. It will help generating true faith in some people, who are not “saddhanusari“.
– All these descriptions probably are boring for “saddhanusari“.Eric: You seem to be a very intelligent person who can express things in a humorous way.
Yes. The key is to “catch yourself in the act”, before it goes too far! That is where the will power becomes important, together with understanding Dhamma.
Both are important.
Welcome to the forum, Tien!
I am impressed that a young person like you have this Noble goal.
Sadhu! Sadhu!! Sadhu!!!You seem to be doing the right things. Read the Meditation and Living Dhamma sections too.
Getting to the Anagami stage is not a trivial thing, but of course should be achievable by a determined person with tihetuka birth. Of course, there is no way to figure out whether one has a tihetuka birth or not.
Here is a post that could give you more information:
Craving for Pornography – How to Reduce the TendencyAs discussed there, an Anagami would not have craving for ANY type of sense pleasure: craving for tasty food, smells or body touches (including sex).
However, that cannot be achieved by sheer will power. It comes through comprehension of the fruitlessness of sense pleasures. Jut as with any stage of magga phala, that understanding comes through the comprehension of Tilakkhana at increasingly higher levels.
Vilas (vilaskadival) sent me the desana that he recorded. I encourage everyone to listen to it. He welcomes any comments.
Hello Student,
It seems that you are under stress because you think that everyone around you is inferior to you. That could be true in an “academic” sense.
But another factor that comes into play is one’s moral standing. I am not making any judgement, but just pointing out facts. I obviously have no idea of your academic or moral standing. What I am saying is that it is possible that your parents may have good moral standing, even if they seem to lag in intelligence.
Also, as y not pointed out, sometimes one’s high opinion of oneself could block one from seeing the true nature. No matter how much we accomplish based on just the intelligence, that cannot provide a long-term solution to the “problem of life”. One dies and starts all over again, and that next life could be a bad one if one makes mistakes by doing some immoral things.
What I am basically saying is that even if your parents are intellectually inferior to you, you should not look at them with contempt. They are the ones who gave you chance to be human. It is possible that you have not yet read some posts about gandhabba and the 10 types of micca ditthi.
It is important to respect and take care of one’s parents: “The Deep Kindness of Parents“.
Without a moral basis, all other accomplishments are eventually meaningless. One is born into a certain environment because of what one has done in previous lives. If we are not careful, we could be subjected to even worse conditions in future lives, or even within this life.
On the other hand, just because one is born into a given environment, one does need to be stuck there. Many people who were born poor, have been able to come out of poverty by their own efforts. But a moral foundation is critical in order get to a long-term solution.
Some things to think about. Life is not simple. There are many competing factors that come into play. May be we can suggest more, when we get to hear more about your situation.
firewns said: “I also notice something curious. In the pavutti PS or uppati PS, avijja, sankhara, vinnana, namarupa, salayatana, phassa paccaya each other in forward or reverse order. Could it be even more complex than that?”
Yes. But it cannot randomly jump here and there. For example, it cannot be “vinnana paccaya salayatana”, skipping the “viannana paccaya namarupa” step in between.
– But the reverse order can happen: “vinnana paccaya namarupa” and “namarupa paccaya vinnana” both happen: “Asevana and Annamanna Paccaya“.
– This is a complex subject. It may take time for all the details to sink in. Don’t worry too much about that. It took me years to get to get this stage, and I am still learning.“Thus the order would seem to be like this instead: phassa paccaya namarupa, namarupa paccaya salayatana, salayatana paccaya vinnana. Am I right to think that this is another possible version of PS?”
Absolutely not. That is random.“Also, it seems to me that inherent in namarupa are vedana, sanna and tanha as well, i.e. in namarupa, we have our feelings, perceptions and desires tied up with it.”
That is correct. The “nama” part has vedana, sanna, etc.Glad to hear that you are making progress, Eric. Keep it up!
“Couldn’t the manic-depressive states also be described as the semi-randomized experiencing of extremes of high- and low-mindedness? Or is this a misinterpretation of uddacca and kukkucca?”
It certainly could. This is why it is important to keep the mind calm as much as possible AND to learn Dhamma. Exposing oneself to distracting environment, whether it is unclean physical surroundings or loud music, violent video games, even too much television, can make the mind agitated.
– Then to top it off, the annantara samanantara paccaya will attract “bad previous kamma vipaka” too.
– So, it is important to gradually reduce such exposure. It may be hard to do in the beginning but stick with it.
– This is why they keep drug addicts in isolation forcibly sometimes (not for too long initially, but they keep increasing the isolation time).firewns said: “Lal, I agree that at least initially it is not possible to control what kind of cetasikas arise as the cittas arise so rapidly. However can kamma beeja be altered, or if not, at least have its effects modified by other kamma beeja?”
It is not that kamma beeja need to be altered. They are unable to bring vipaka (especially in rebirth) when panna is cultivated.
– For example, when one attains the Sotapanna stage, all kamma beeja that can bring in rebirth in the apayas become ineffective. No kamma beeja can bring rebirth once the Arahant stage is attained.However, kamma vipaka can bring in results for humans until the Arahant’s physical body dies. This has to do with the mental body from being shielded by the physical body. But if a brahma attains the Arahanthood, that brahma will immediately attain Parinibbana, because a brahma does not have a physical body.
This is why Angulimala, who killed 999 people was able to attain the Arahanthood. He did not grasp a new birth at the death of the physical body. But he was subjected to harassment until his death.
To add to what SengKiat stated.
firewns said: “Since sankhara kandha are cetasikas..”
Sankhara are not the same as cetasika, but they are related. Different types of sankhara arise when different combinations of cetasika arise.
For example, if the lobha cetasika (and possibly more related cetasika) arise, then that is an apunna abhisankhara (apunnabhisankhara).
But in another case, dosa cetasika may arise giving rise to another type of apunnabhisankhara.
Regarding the rest of the question:
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1. Vedana and sanna arise with each and every citta. So, yes, they are both in any sankhara.
- Vinnana is the overall sense experience that includes sankhara. Therefore, sankharakkhandha is part of vinnannakkandha.
- But vinnana is more. While vedana, sanna, and sankhara are all nama, and rupa is all rupa, vinnana is the bridge between nama and rupa, leading to namarupa: “vinnana paccaya namarupa“.
- That is a subtle point, so don’t worry too much if anyone does not really understand that yet. For those who need more information: “Viññāna Aggregate“.
- An easy way to see that is on’es own house is a rupa. The name “my house” that comes to our mind comes with a picture that has both the shape and features of the house and one’s feelings, perceptions, desires about it too. So, what comes to the mind is a namarupa.
– That means vedanakkhandha and sannakkhandha are parts of the bigger sankharakkhandha.
– Vedana and sanna are two critical and special types of cetasika. That is why they are listed separately from other 50 cetasika.firewns said:”For example, if one is donating money to charitable organisations, one can do so without expecting anything in return (alobha). One can also sincerely wish for the benefits of the needy when they receive financial aid from these organisations (adosa). But how can one cultivate the amoha cetasika in such a case?”
This is related to your question on another forum here on the arising of cetasika (sankhara) automatically within a split second.
At least initially, it is not possible to control what kinds of cetasika arise when our attention is grabbed by an external sense input.One CAN and SHOULD deviate the mind from such “unwise” cetasika when one becomes aware of them (that is Anapana or Satipatthana). For example, if one gets the craving to eat a piece of cake that looks delicious, one could suppress such thoughts by thinking about bad consequences of eating too many pieces of cake. Of course, one can eat such things in moderation.
The point is that as one sticks to being mindful, many such spontaneous reactions will reduce with time. That is cultivating panna in one sense.
However, a huge change will happen when one starts comprehending the unfruitful nature of sense attractions (anicca, dukkha,anatta,asubha nature), and that some of them can be outright dangerous. That is when one really cultivates panna.
But it is hard to pin point when that “jump” will happen. One should just keep at it by “being mindful” AND also keep learning Dhamma and contemplating on those concepts.
Another way to say that is to say that panna will grow as one gets rid of bad gati and cultivates good gati.
Eric: It is better if you stay on this thread.
“These happen more often when I’m blue and bored, or already in a bad mood. ”
This is important. A bad mindset attracts bad thoughts, and even bad kamma vipaka.So, it is important to try to stay away from angry thoughts and even video games, loud music etc. A calm and clean external environment together with positive thoughts can make a big difference. You may want to read the following posts:
Annantara and Samanantara Paccaya
(Don’t be put off by the title)The Law of Attraction, Habits, Character (Gathi), and Cravings (Asavas)
Eric said: “.. I should instead sit down (outside on a park bench if need be), shut up, and fill my head with pure dhamma for about a half-hour?”
Yes. Do whatever that works to get the mind off those incessant cravings.
Compare your effort to the effort of a baby trying to learn to walk. The baby will fall many times a day initially, but will fall and less as he/she makes progress.
In fact, that is a good way to check your progress. Do you fall less and less each new week or each new month? If so, you are making progress. Keep it up and you will feel the joy of not falling for a whole day, a whole week soon enough!
Eris said: “.. I should instead sit down (outside on a park bench if need be), shut up, and fill my head with pure dhamma for about a half-hour?”
Yes. Do whatever that works to get the mind off those incessant cravings.
Compare your effort to the effort of a baby trying to learn to walk. The baby will fall many times a day initially, but will fall and less as he/she makes progress.
In fact, that is a good way to check your progress. Do you fall less and less each new week or each new month? If so, you are making progress. Keep it up and you will feel the joy of not falling for a whole day, a whole week soon enough!
Thanks for pointing this out. I have never used a phone or a mobile device to access the website, so I have no experience on this issue.
However, I know that there are many who use mobile devices to access the website. It would be great if they can comment. Is this a big problem or can one get around this issue easily?
By the way, just to make it clear, one does not need to login to read any of the material, including the posts at the discussion forum. One needs to login only to ask a question at the forum or to reply to a question at the forum.
Here is the link to the discussion forum, where details can be found:
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