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The goal is to end the suffering in the rebirth process.
- The Buddha taught the following: We will not be reborn humans repeatedly (or be reborn in a higher, heavenly realm for eternity). Depending on their actions (moral/immoral), humans can be reborn in higher or lower realms. We can see only one of the four lower realms, the animal realm; the other three lower realms have even more suffering. In addition, rebirths in the low realms are much more frequent. Therefore, there is unimaginable suffering in the rebirth process.
- That is why one would want to end the rebirth process and attain Nibbana.
You have not read my comments or the posts I recommended (or do not have enough background on Buddha’s teachings). If interested, I recommend reading “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream” to learn about the rebirth process.
Let me put it this way: There is no “soul-type” permanent entity as in Cristianity. It is an illusion.
- Paticca Samuppada explains that the idea of an “everlasting self” (a “soul-type” entity) is an illusion. Each “existence” is created by the mind in previous lives. That is how the rebirth process continues.
- Please reread my above comment and the post I recommended.
- The following post could be helpful too: “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream”
” But since Nibbana is described as nicca, atta and sukha (the opposite of the conditioned elements) and only the specific mind that cultivates this correct perception (that conditions are Tilakkhana) merges with this element, would it be appropriate to say Nibbana is their “self”?”
- No. It is only those striving to attain Nibbana consider it to be of nicca, atta, sukha VERSUS anicca, anatta, dukha associated with existence in any realm of this world.
- A living Arahant also sees what they have attained as nicca, atta, and sukha. Of course, they will experience any physical ailments associated with the body they were born with, but they know that it will also go away when the physical body dies.
- Nibbana means total dissociation from this world. Nibbana cannot be described in terms of the vocabulary “of this world.”
- The “ever-changing personality” terminates with becoming an Arahant.
- Only the physical body born as an “average human (puthujjana)” lives until its death and is subjected to physical ailments; after the death of the physical body, there is no trace of that “lifestream.” Only mental phenomena sustained that lifestream!
- That should be clear when you see that the Paticca Samuppada process starts with “avijja paccaya sankhara” and leads to “bhava ” and “jati” leading to existence as a human, Deva, animal, etc. at different times. All those existences were maintained/sustained by kammic energy!
- It takes an effort to stop evaluating Buddha Dhamma with a “mundane mindset.” A paradigm change is necessary to understand Buddha’s teachings, as I pointed out in the current post: “Sensory Experience, Paṭicca Samuppāda, and pañcupādānakkhandha.”
I know it can be a bit difficult to grasp the idea of saññā vipallāsa or distorted saññā.
- Saññā vipallāsa is equivalent to distorted saññā. I translate “vipallāsa” as “distortion” because it refers to an incorrect perception (saññā) of worldly experiences.
- What do you consider to be the difference between them?
- Clarifying these concepts is essential, so don’t hesitate to state what you understand them to be.
I think this is a good time to remind everyone of the following.
Vedanā that appears in Paṭicca Samuppāda is “mind-made,” not the physical pain or physical pleasure. Part of that “mind-made vedanā” arises via “distorted saññā” (automatically), and another arises via “samphassa-jā-vedanā” a split-second later. I have not discussed that in detail yet, but it is good to keep in mind.
- In that context, any sukha vedanā coming through all the senses other than the physical body, generate part of that “mind-made vedanā” via “distorted saññā.“
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I think Waisaka only suggested one possibility out of many to give an idea.
- In general, we only need to understand that good (moral) kamma lead to good vipaka and bad (immoral) kamma lead to bad vipaka.
- In addition, to cultivate Satipatthana or Anapanasati Bhavana, we must abstain from immoral deeds and engage in moral deeds. Here, “deeds” include our actions, speech, and thoughts. Furthermore, we must contemplate Dhamma concepts (like Paticca Samuppada), and that advances our mind toward the suffering-free pabhassara mind.
- The above summarizes Buddha Dhamma.
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Pathfinder asked: “Why does the Buddha talk about the mother’s womb when the sutta is about conditions at that time/ Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda?”
- Grasping a “human bhava” happens at the cuti-patisandhi moment, NOT when a gandhabba gets into a womb. A human gandhabba (mental body) is born well before it can get into a womb. So, in what you quoted above, the Buddha did not describe a cuti-patisandhi moment, but only the situation where a gandhabba gets into a womb. That translator does not understand this process, so it is misleading.
- To be born with a physical human body, that gandhabba must enter a womb, which normally can happens months or years after that. Then, a human baby is born, grows, and dies. If that person lived for 100 years, that is a much shorter time compared to the lifetime of the human gandhabba. So, the gandhabba comes out of the dead body and is pulled into another womb at a later time. There can be many births (jati) within a human bhava. See “Bhava and Jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein.”
- To properly translate that sutta, the trasnaltor must understand what I described above. This is why many English translations are misleading or confusing.
Pathfinder wrote: “Another interesting thing is that the Buddha skips saḷāyatana paccayā phasso in that analysis, and links nama rupa straight to phasso. He also stops at viññāṇa in his anaylsis, he does not go back further to talk about avijja and sankhara.”
- Yes. Here, “namarupa” represents “salayatana” too.
- It is a deeper point. But the point is that the “namarupa creation” that happens in the mind that gives rise to a gandhabba being born with six ayatana (salayatana).
- Paticca Samuppada analysis can be done at various levels. Properly tanslating the “Mahanidana Sutta” can take a book. It is the main sutta on Paticca Samuppada. Word-by-word translations are useless (and can be dangerously misleading) for such suttas, which require detailed expalnations.
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Yes. The Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda running at the cuti-patisandhi moment can be labeled “uppatti Paṭicca samuppāda” because that explains the arising of a new existence (for example, leaving the human existence and grasping an animal or Deva existence.)
- But that is just another version of the Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda.
- One thing to note is that the arammana (sensory input) in that particular situation is initiated by accumulated kammic energy, i.e., by a “janaka kamma.” That is described only in Abhidhamma (not critical to understand), but it is good to remember.
It is better to focus on how one generates kamma rather than on kamma vipaka.
- The Buddha said, “I will teach you what suffering is, how it arises, why it arises, and how to stop it from arising.”
- One cannot learn anything useful by studying kamma vipaka. That subject is fully comprehensible only to a Buddha: “Kamma vipāko, bhikkhave, acinteyyo, na cintetabbo.” See “Acinteyya Sutta (AN 4.77).”
- The necessary translation: “There are four things that are unthinkable. They should not be thought about; anyone who tries to think about them will lose their mind or be frustrated. One of them is kamma vipāka.”
- You should find other resources (if there are any) to discuss kamma vipaka.
- I have and will discuss only the necessary aspects. That is why I said I cannot waste my time analyzing each hypothetical situation. Only a Buddha can do that, but I doubt whether he would spend the time on such issues because they do not help us understand the origin of suffering.
Yes. But not anytime soon. It is more important to discuss the importance of “sanna” in panca upadanakkhandha.
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“Did Buddha dicuss any comprehensive aspect of how dreams work? “
No. he did not. We can understand why the following way.
- The brain is the critical interface between the external world and the seat of the mind (hadaya vatthu) located in the mental body (gandhabba). It is a (biological) machine that works very hard analyzing and converting the signals received by eyes, ears, etc., to a form that the hadaya vatthu understands.
- The brain needs to be rejuvenated at the end of the day, and it stops processing. During that time, the mind (hadaya vatthu) enters a “holding state” called bhavanga. Thus, no “useful activity” occurs in the mind during sleep.
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1. Yes. “Idappaccayā” comes from “ida” + “paccayā,” meaning “based on the conditions at that time.“
2. At the beginning of the post, it says, “Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda explains the accumulation of kammic energies within the current life.”
- Bhava, jati, jara, marana,.. all refer to entities that arise within this life.
- However, part of the kammic energies accumulated via that process can contribute to future bhava, jati, jara, marana,. See #13 of the post you quoted.
3. Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda can also explain “grasping a “new existence/bhava” that will lead to births and deaths within that new bhava.
- Suppose a human bhava ends, and that lifestream grasps an animal existence (animal bhava.); let us say it is a deer. That will also take place with an Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda process taking place at that time. At the “upadana paccaya bhava” step, the mind of the dying human gandhabba will grasp the “animal bhava,” and a “deer gandhabba” will be born. Then, that “deer gandhabba” will be pulled into the womb of a female deer, and a baby deer will be born.
4. More details in “Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava.”
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I think you are over-analyzing with unreasonable assumptions: “Let’s say the person has some superstition against cash, and does not feel good receiving the $100.”
- Try sticking to reasonable assumptions. Don’t make things more complicated.
- We are trying to understand Buddha’s teachings to remove future suffering. You seem more focused on making “lawyer-type” arguments to see whether Buddha Dhamma is “logical enough.”
- That type of approach may not be conducive to learning. Furthermore, I don’t have the time to analyze all kinds of hypotheticals.
The best approach is to analyze your own scenarios/experiences rather than try to come up with far-fetched hypotheticals. If you do that, I would be happy to help.
1. What kind of kamma one engages in is unrelated to kamma vipaka.
- One could do an akusala kamma based on a good kamma vipaka. For example, suppose a poor person gets a hundred dollars as a gift. That is a good kamma vipaka. But that poor person could use that money to buy a gun and shoot his enemy.
2. Kamma generation must not be attached to a kamma vipaka.
- In the “Nibbedhika Sutta (AN 6.63)“: “Cetanāhaṁ, bhikkhave, kammaṁ vadāmi. Cetayitvā kammaṁ karoti—kāyena vācāya manasā” OR “Bhikkhus, I say one does kamma with intention. One does a kamma via thoughts, speech, and body based on intention.”
- That “word-by-word” translation does not convey the true meaning of the verse. A better translation (that provides the meaning is: “Bhikkhus, I say one does kamma with defiled intention. One does a kamma via defiled thoughts, speech, and body based on defiled intention.”
- Therefore, it is essential to note that “cetanā” is “sancetanā” or “with raga, dosa, moha in mind.” With a defiled mind, one engages in defiled actions, speech, and thoughts.
- See “What is “San”? Meaning of Sansara (or Samsara)“
3. Therefore, the easiest way to assess whether a given kamma can bring a “bad vipaka” is to see whether that action, speech, or thought was based on greed, anger, or ignorance.
4. Let us analyze your example.
- You wrote: “Let’s say in my country giving apples to people is an insult, and I intentionally give apples to other people to insult them.” In that case, you know you will insult someone if you give them apples. Thus, you know that person will be offended if you do it. So, it is a “bad kamma” on your part.
- You will not receive apples in the future just because you gave apples to someone.
- Now, suppose you are in a different country where giving apples to people is NOT an insult. You see a hungry person and give them apples, expecting that will help quench their hunger. That is a good kamma. But the vipaka may not necessarily be to receive apples in the future. There will be a good vipaka corresponding to that good deed, but it does not have to be “receiving apples.”
5. Arahants can experience both good and bad kamma vipaka until their physical body dies.
- But they will not do either good kamma or bad kamma (that can bring vipaka in the future.)
- All their actions are categorized as “kriya” (or mere actions) that do not generate any kammic energy.
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1. In general, dreams do not have predictive capability.
- There could be exceptional cases, but the Buddha did not discuss such aspects.
- For example, it is reported that Queen Mahamaya (mother of the Bodhisatta) had some dreams about the Bodhisatta entering her womb.
2. However, there is the following account in the Tipitaka regarding a different aspect of dreams.
- Once, a bhikkhu had a dream where he had sex with a woman. Since having sex is a “parājikā” (breaking of a Vinaya rule) and makes a bhikkhu ineligible to keep his “bhikkhu status,” that bhikkhu got highly depressed. He went to the Buddha, reported the incident, and said he was sorry and would leave.
- But the Buddha explained that dreams do not represent our thoughts. No javana cittas (with raga, dosa, moha) can arise while dreaming. Thus, he told the bhikkhu not to leave and to continue practicing.
- Even modern mundane laws follow the same basic principle. For example, one is not criminally liable for any crime done while “sleepwalking.”
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