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Sybe07 has sent me the following comment. He was unable to post it. Apparently, the software bug randomly causes problems!
Here is Sybe07’s comment.
Hi Yann,
The following sutta’s treath differences in rebirth between noble persons and not noble ones: AN3.116, AN4.123-126
https://suttacentral.net/an3.116/en/sujato
https://suttacentral.net/an4.123/en/sujato (click next button to read the rest)Regarding your second question:
As i understand it from what i have read, lifespan in a certain realm is based on a certain (limited) kammic energy. When this is spend, a transformation takes place to another bhava (lifeform) at the cuti-patisandhi moment. From death to a new rebirth/bhava.
So, when the positive kamma in those deva or Brahma realms is spend, and life ends in those realms, it is said, negative latent tendencies, still present in a not-noble mind, activate. They surfice automatically near the end of the lifespan and become at death a condition for rebirth in lower realms.
That’s why only doing good is, in the end, not liberating. The existing anusaya or latent tendencies in the mind must be uprooted too, or, in other words, mind has to be purified to the extent that there are no conditions anymore for rebirth in lower realms.
If this does not take place, it is to be expected that those bad anusaya will surfice at the end of a life in a relative happy realm and will drag one down at the end of that lifespan.
As i have understood, especially wrong views and strong greed and hate become conditions for rebirth in the lower realms. In a noble person (or better in a noble mind) there are no wrong views anymore and lobha en dosa is strongly reduced. So there are no causes anymore who can drag one down in the apaya’s after living as a human, deva or Brahma.
So the purification of the mind is the crucial point and explains the difference in rebirth as mentioned in de above sutta’s.
Yann: “i mean mankind wasn’t alway around, man existed for less than a million year,.”
You have not read what I wrote and tried to explain. This cannot be explained in a single post. If you need to find out, it is necessary to read the recommended posts.
Let me try to explain it a bit more.
– Our planetary system with the Earth will be destroyed in a few billion years.
– By that time, not only humans but all living forms on Earth (animals, beings in the apayas, Devas, etc) ALL will be in a higher Brahma realm that is NOT destroyed.
– Then the Solar system will re-form over billions of years, and eventually, all those being in that Brahma realm will gradually come down to the Earth.That cycle has been going on forever. That is a very short summary that I gave.
– To understand how it all happens REQUIRES a lot more background material that I suggested.
– One needs to ALSO understand the rebirth process, kamma and kamma vipaka, etc.What I stated above is in a bit more expanded form in the post, “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”
More information on the rebirth process at, “Evidence for Rebirth.”
Thanks, Seng Kiat.
I was not thinking about how to write those letters.
There is another way to find the correct way to write SOME words. The Sutta Central “Search” tool can be used, for example, to find how vinnana is spelled by typing “vinnana” in the Search box:
479 results for vinnanaAs you can see, it correctly spells out the word.
yann: “I just ask myself what will happen of the human realm when mankind will be no more? ”
I don’t understand. What do you mean by “mankind will be no more?”
– When will mankind disappear???
– Why would that happen?Yann asked: “So my first question is how can the buddha divide the world in 31 realms, one of which is the human plane, since mankind is only 200 000 years old.”
A fundamental idea of Buddha Dhamma (Buddhism) is that each life existing now has existed forever. At least a beginning to a “lifestream” is not discernible.
– I know that it is not compatible with science. But teachings of the Buddha have prevailed over scientific predictions so far.
– For example, even a few hundred years ago, Western science believed that the Earth was at the center of the universe. Even just over a hundred years ago, science was not aware of billions of other stars like our Sun with planetary systems like ours.
– But the Buddha had taught all that 2500 years ago.For an introduction, see, “Dhamma and Science – Introduction.” More references are there.
Second question: “Why isn’t nibbana considered as an achievement that is somehow just above the higher of the existant realms, and how can beings in those realms fall back toward lower realms since they needed to cultivate strong positive kamma and understanding to reach that stage?”
This requires a lot more explanation.
– But one needs to understand what is discussed above first.
I would recommend the post, “Buddhism without Rebirth and Nibbāna?” after the above posts.Buddhism (Buddha Dhamma) is VERY different from other religions. In fact, Buddha Dhamma is NOT a religion. It is a complete description of our “wider world” with 31 realms. That may sound exotic, but that is the truth.
Per my previous promise, I have revised the post in question: “3. Viññāṇa, Thoughts, and the Subconscious.”
I did that in a hurry, so don’t hesitate to point out any errors or if something is not clear.
Tobias asked, “Can you explain how to type these special letters for Tipitaka English, like the “a” with a line above?”
These are called word declensions.
Words can be modified to change the tense (singular to plural), subject to object, etc by just changing the word itself.
In English also it is there to a certain extent. The word “bring” is present tense, but “brought” is past tense, for example.
– But in a “highly-inflected” language like Pali (or Eastern European languages), it is a common occurrence.To be totally correct, the singular is gandhabbō and plural gandhabbā.
Bhikkhu is singular and the plural is Bhikkhū, for example.
– But it can get very complex quickly.I have thought about writing about that, but there are more urgent things to do. Plus, it will take a lot of time.
– For those who are really interested, I would suggest Kurt Schmidt’s book, “Pali- Buddha’s Language.” Appendix B there has a good introduction.However, a pronunciation guide is at “Pāli Glossary – (A-K)” under #1.
Thanks for pointing that out, Tobias.
I corrected it as follows:
“All these different types of vinnana can not be there in a single thought (citta), and there is only one citta at a time;..”Also, I see that it is an old post and needs updating, especially with regards to “Tipitaka English.” I will try to do that today.
Sybe07 asked: “In other words, does the arising of the magga citta stay unnoticed? Do we not have some kind of experience?”
One will have the experience of a “cooled mind.” One will not be perturbed as one used to.
But that happens gradually, over time, in the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
– That is why I said it does not register as a “bolt of lightning.”I just remembered that in one sutta, a bhikkhuni asks Ven. Ananda about her experience. Then Ven. Ananda explains to her that it is the mindset of an Arahant.
– So, she did not even realize that she had attained the Arahanthood!
– If anyone knows the name of the sutta, please post it.Anyway, I think that is enough discussion about the “phala moment.”
Sybe07 wrote: “Personally i do not belief that sotapanna magga stays unnoticed..”
What do you mean by “stays unnoticed?”
Do you mean that there is a “significant registration” in the mind at the moment one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami?
– There is no such “registration” for an Anugami.
– One becomes a Sotapanna Anugami gradually by starting to comprehend the “wider worldview” of the Buddha (with its anicca, dukkha, anatta nature). Then, when the comprehension gets to a certain level, it registers in the mind as the Sotapanna phala citta.
– Therefore, the Sotapanna stage is attained for a Sotapanna Anugami in a moment. That is explained in Abhidhamma. See, “Citta Vithi for Attainment of Magga Phala” at the end of the post, “Citta Vithi – Processing of Sense Inputs.” For a Sotapanna Anugami, the mind gets only to the “Gotrabu” moment (change of lineage to an Ariya). I need to revise the post to add that bit of information.
– But even then, one may not realize it right then. It is not like a lightning strike!One realizes one has attained any stage of magga phala by observing one’s own behavior and tendencies.
– The Anagami stage is the easiest to verify (by oneself), since one will lose all cravings to sensory pleasures, including sex.All good comments.
Here is a post that discusses some aspects: “The Sōtapanna Stage.”
sumbodhi wrote, “Citta is the “root” form of the word.”
Citta is not a word? Cittā (thoughts) is plural of citta (a thought.)
Here is a verse from dhammasaṅgaṇī: 2.4.2. Dukaatthuddhāra
“Katame dhammā cittā? Cakkhuviññāṇaṃ, sotaviññāṇaṃ, ghānaviññāṇaṃ, jivhāviññāṇaṃ, kāyaviññāṇaṃ, manodhātu, manoviññāṇadhātu—ime dhammā cittā.”“I was trying to ask (in an unclear way) whether or not we can be conscious of mano sankhara (as in whether or not mano sankhara is noticeable)..”
The easiest way to remember is as follows. If one starts thinking about something that means those “thoughts” are vaci sankhara.
Another way to look at it is the following. Mano sankhara are DEFINED as “vedana and sanna” in the Cula Vedalla Sutta (MN 44.) We know that both those are “universal cetasika” meaning they are in ALL citta.
– Thus all our thoughts (other than vaci sankhara and kaya sankhara) are mano sankhara.
– We MAY NOT even be of AWARE of some mano sankhara. The transition from mano sankhara to vaci sankhara is a grey area.Further details relating to this issue can be found at, “Anantara and Samanantara Paccayā”
There are many ways to explain any given point in Buddha Dhamma. More information can be found at deeper levels.
I agree with Sybe07’s and Christian’s comments.
A Buddha (Sammasambuddha) discovers the true nature to help others to be free of suffering. He would not have any “secret teachings.” That is an absurd idea in some Mahāyāna books too.
Thee is more information specifically at, “Preservation of the Buddha Dhamma”
– One can also find more information at, “Historical Background.”
