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The following comment is from Tobias. He ran into a problem submitting it.
Please see #11: “When the Earth is re-formed about 30 billion years after its destruction, those BrahmÄ will start coming down to those newly-formed lower realms….”
After destruction, it will take about 20 billion years until a new earth is formed: 10 billion void + 10 billion reformation.
Please see #2: “…(iv). Such 10,000 clusters of world-systems blow up from time to time in the universe. Again, scientists observe such supernovae every year….”
It should be “Such a cluster with 10,000 solar systems blows up from time to time…”
Link: Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)
1 user thanked author for this post.
Johnny wrote: “If one adamantly insists on an existence of an entity or experiencer to experience a vipaka and a doer to execute a kamma,..”
I think the best way to state is the following:
– There will be a person with the perception of “me” doing kamma as long as that person DOES NOT see the real nature of this world.
– There will be a person with the perception of “me” doing kamma as long as that person HAS a set of gati (habits/character) to get attached to “things in this world.”
– There will be a person with the perception of “me” doing kamma as long as that person DOES NOT see the futility AND danger in getting attached to “things in this world.”
– Only an Arahant has comprehended this fully. Others have to get there in stages.The first step is the “see” the futility and danger in doing, speaking, thinking immoral things.
– Until one makes progress on that, the ability to “see” the true nature of this world is limited. One’s mind is covered with the five hindrances (panca nivarana): excess greed, excess anger, lethargic mind, the tendency is to do lowly things and uncertainty of one’s faith in Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha (this is because one has not understood Dhamma.)Thus the first step is to “see” the true nature by getting rid of the ten types of miccha ditthi, and then comprehending Tilakkhana. That is getting to Sotapanna Anugami/Sotapanna stages.
– Getting rid of the perception (sanna) of a “me” starts at THAT POINT.
– That step is completed only at the Arahant stage.Until then there is going to be a “me” doing kamma. That “me” will be born in lower realms if immoral kamma are done.
– At times that “me” will do good kamma, and will be born in good realms.
– That process will continue endlessly until that “me” realizes the true nature and “sees” the futility AND danger in that whole process.My next series of posts will be on this issue. Good timing!
Yes, y not.
This is another illustration of anicca nature.
Things can change unexpectedly and rapidly.
– However, we need to take all the necessary steps to deal with it to the best of our ability.
– Buddha Dhamma is all about avoiding suffering, whether in this life or in future lives.cubibobi wrote: “what is the Pali breakdown of the word jhana?”
Good question.
“jhā” is to burn. That could be related to the word jhāna.
I will investigate this a bit more.“Knowing about gati also tells me why I was not able to get into jhanā: kāma rāga is still strong…”
Yes. It is not possible to get to jhāna if kāma rāga is strong.
In any sutta describing the jhānic experience, there is this phrase: “So vivicceva kāmehi, vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṃ savicāraṃ vivekajaṃ pītisukhaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati..“.
Translated: “Withdrawn from sensuality (kāma rāga), withdrawn from akusala thoughts, and engaged in thoughts of renunciation and compassion, he enters and remains in the first jhāna..”.
Thank you, Lang.
” However, some reported that their bodies disappeared at times.”
– Yes. There are billions of types of samadhi. Some good and some bad. Whatever one may focus one’s attention on, one may get a corresponding result. Some can see lights, some feel that the body has disappeared, etc.
– But there are only 4 (or 5 depending on whether the first jhana is split into two) rupavacara jhana and 4 arupavacara jhana. See, “Jhānic Experience in Detail – Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2)”
– Many people get confused between samadhi and jhana.You are welcome, Lvalio!
I just did not have time to put that together earlier. But I understood a bit more clarification was needed.
– Anyway, don’t hesitate to ask questions. If I don’t know the answer, I will say so.I just wanted to provide the correct translation for the passage quoted by Johnny at the first post on his thread:
“Mendicants, I don’t say that intentional deeds that have been performed and accumulated are eliminated without being experienced. And that may be in the present life, or in the next life, or in some subsequent period. And I don’t say that suffering is ended without experiencing intentional deeds that have been performed and accumulated.”The Pali verse is: “Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṃ kammānaṃ katānaṃ upacitānaṃ appaṭisaṃveditvā byantībhāvaṃ vadāmi. Tañca kho diṭṭheva dhamme upapajje vā apare vā pariyāye. Na tvevāhaṃ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṃ kammānaṃ katānaṃ upacitānaṃ appaṭisaṃveditvā dukkhassantakiriyaṃ vadāmi.”
Per my explanation above and in the link provided above, the correct translation is:
“Bhikkhus, I don’t say that intentional deeds that have been performed and accumulated would not bring their results if that person had not figured out why such deeds are immoral (that understanding would require comprehension of Tilakkhana). Those results may appear in the present life, in the next life, or in future life. And I don’t say that suffering will end if that person had not figured out why such deeds are immoral”
In other words, once one attains the Arahanthood ALL such kamma vipaka will end at the Parinibbana of that Arahant.
– Some of the vipaka (especially apayagami vipaka) start losing their ability to bring vipaka from the Sotapanna Anugami stage.Johnny asked: “Does sannakkhandha perform the function of valuation apart from memory retrieval, labeling, and identification?”
It is the mansikara cetasika that does memory retrieval.
– Defiled vedana and sanna can arise automatically IF one has kama raga (in the case of the attractive lady.) That means the same as saying one has “kama gati.”
– If it is an Arahant or an Anagami, such defiled vedana and sanna cannot arise. No “kama gati” left in them.This is related to the following verse in the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22):
“..Sabbakāya paṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāya paṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati,..”Compare that with the word appaṭisaṃveditvā in the verse from Johnny’s first post.
– appaṭisaṃveditvā means “not paṭisaṃvedī” or the concept of how “san” arises not grasped. In other words, Tilakkhana not grasped.Sabba kāya in the above verse means ajjhatta kāya and bahiddha kāya .
The complete verse in the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta is:
“eyyathāpi, bhikkhave, dakkho bhamakāro vā bhamakārantevāsī vā dīghaṃ vā añchanto ‘dīghaṃ añchāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā añchanto ‘rassaṃ añchāmī’ti pajānāti; evameva kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti. ‘Sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati.”
“Iti ajjhattaṃ vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati, bahiddhā vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati, ajjhattabahiddhā vā kāye kāyānupassī viharati. Samudayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṃ viharati, vayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṃ viharati, samudayavayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṃ viharati. ‘Atthi kāyo’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati. Evampi kho , bhikkhave, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati.”
It is good to carefully read the previous discussion that y not referred to.
The following comment is from y not
When I tried to add a link to his comment, the whole comment disappeared. But luckily I kept a copy of his comment. Thanks, y not!
Cubibobi,
Go to the discussion:
“AN 10.219 Karayakayasutta (The Body born of Deeds)“. The subject matter of the two suttas (and of the one i between) is the same.Metta
Sybe07: I deleted your comments. Quoting an incorrectly translated sutta is not the way to disprove anything.
Nothing happens without a cause. If you say that kamma is not that cause, what is it?
Again, not all past kamma bring vipaka. This is all explained in the post I quoted above. Also, that is the whole idea behind Paticca Samuppada.
Sybe07: “My opinion, based on the sutta’s SN36.21, AN5.104 and AN.10.60, is that the Buddha did not teach that any problem we face is caused by our own immoral deeds in the past.”
What you have wrong is the part in the bold.
1. There MUST be a previous kamma to bring vipaka. We have done infinite number of kamma in the past and it may not be possible to pinpoint the specific kamma. But NOTHING happens without a cause. Only a Buddha can get into such specifics for a given person.
2. But NOT all previous kamma can bring vipaka. There MUST BE the right conditions to bring vipaka.
This is discussed in, “What is Kamma? – Is Everything Determined by Kamma?”
Please read that post carefully. If you see something not correct, quote the bullet # and explain why that is not correct.
Sybe07 wrote: “They might inherit the problems.”
No. They DO NOT.
The following is a key aspect of Buddha Dhamma and that can avoid many unnecessary speculations about kamma/kamma vipaka.
Kamma are committed BY THE MIND.
– If one thinks, speaks, and acts with greed, anger, ignorance, those are the root causes.
– Kammic energy is PRODUCED in javana citta.If those children helped their father in his immoral activities (and thus generated defiled THOUGHTS) then they would create THEIR OWN kamma and the corresponding vipaka will come to them.
– That has nothing to do with the kamma/kamma vipaka that the father created for himself.One is responsible only for one’s own deeds.
The children are not responsible for their father’s actions unless they helped him in those particular activities.
Yes. The five khandhas (aggregates) can be thought of like a registry or a record.
Until the Arahant stage is reached, we all make wrong decisions and thus generate “wrong” sankhara, vinnana, etc.
– Those go to the five aggregates as records. So, you are right. We have corrupt registries.Even an Arahant has a corrupt registry in the sense of the records generated before attaining the Arahanthood.
– Only the NEW records (after Ararahnthood) will not be corrupt for an Arahant.
