December 16, 2019 at 6:30 am #25949
In the table above the sugathi realms have as “cause of birth” 8 kusala kamma. I think that should be 8 punna kamma. But my question is, which 8 (punna) kamma? Is it the BIG EIGHT: avoiding of killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, gossiping, slandering, harsh speech and getting “drunk”?
December 16, 2019 at 7:06 am #25958
You are quite right, Tobias. I just revised that post and added new note 1.
The answer to your question is in the post (specificall # 11 there) referred to in Note 1. That post is:
“Kamma, Saṅkhāra, and Abhisaṅkhāra.”
Please feel free to ask more questions if not clear.
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– I have to manually update the topic for it to show up. I try to refresh the forum page every few hours to catch them.
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December 17, 2019 at 2:20 am #25965
I still search for the 8. Which 8?
December 17, 2019 at 6:03 am #25967
What is the cause for birth in the asanna realm?
December 17, 2019 at 7:32 am #25969
It is the “asanna bhavana.” In simple terms that means one removes ALL arammana (or thoughts about ANYTHING) that come to the mind.
– I know of some people who engage in this type of meditation.
If properly cultivated, this kind of meditation will lead to memory loss. Since one is trying to remove all thoughts, all memories are lost too, after some time.
– The Buddha taught NOT to remove all thoughts, just the “bad thoughts.’
– One NEEDS to cultivate “good thoughts.” That is the correct Anapanasati meditation.
I discuss this in the post, “Myths about Meditation”
– See, #3 there.
December 17, 2019 at 8:45 am #25973sybe07Spectator
in which sense does that bad meditation you describe differ from sannavedayitanirodha?
December 17, 2019 at 10:28 am #25975
Siebe asked: “in which sense does that bad meditation you describe differ from sannavedayitanirodha?”
There is a HUGE difference between “saññā nirodha” that I described above and “saññāvedayita nirodha” that can be experienced ONLY by an Arahant who has cultivated ALL jhanas too.
– P.S. To get to saññāvedayita nirodha” an Arahant has to systematically go up through all the jhanas, and then get to saññāvedayita nirodha.” That is, in essence, the full experience of Nibbana. He/she can stay in that state for up to seven days.
– P.P.S In other words, in “saññā nirodha” thoughts arise without much of past memories. In saññāvedayita nirodha” thoughts DO NOT arise (like in full Nibbana after the death of an Arahant.)
See (starting from #12) in the post, “Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti“
December 25, 2019 at 10:45 pm #26032cubibobiParticipant
Lal said: “In other words, in “saññā nirodha” thoughts arise without much of past memories….”
Is this similar to Alzheimer’s / dementia?
I’m in a position to be in contact with elderly people with this condition. They exhibit: (1) almost no short term memory, (2) not able to keep track of date/time, and (3) thoughts that arise seem disjointed from one another.
This seems uncannily similar to saññā nirodha. If anyone has insights into communicating with those with Alzheimer’s / dementia, please share.
December 26, 2019 at 5:58 am #26033
No. Patients with Alzheimer’s / dementia lose memories because their brains have defects. Their brain scans likely reveal that parts of their brains have been damaged or not functioning properly.
– If you have information on this (brain scans of such patients), please share.
Both “saññā nirodha” and “saññāvedayita nirodha” take place in people with properly functioning brains.
One gets to “saññā nirodha” by doing a version of anariya meditation where one discards ALL thoughts that come to the mind.
On the other hand, only an Arahant can get to “saññāvedayita nirodha” which is the experience of FULL Nibbana in this life.
– The correct Anapanasati meditation of DISCARDING immoral thoughts and CULTIVATING moral thoughts (and eventually kusala thoughts) lead to the Arahanthood.
– Moral thoughts BECOME kusala thoughts when one comprehends the futility of existence in any of the 31 realms and, in general, the dangers of the rebirth process.
– Understanding that last part, happens at the Sotapanna stage. Implementation of that will be complete only at the Arahanthood.
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