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You wrote: “And, I didn’t understand exactly what ‘a glimpse of Nibbana‘ means, which is thanks to your explanation that that experience happens without distorted saññā at the moment of attaining the Sotapanna stage.”
- I am glad that you understood.
- All our immoral deeds (and thus future suffering) are based on the distorted saññā, i.e., our false perception that external things (sights, sounds, tastes, ..) have mind-pleasing aspects embedded in them.
- Paṭicca Samuppāda programs our mental and physical bodies AND those external things to provide that distorted saññā. This is THE critical aspect to understand. I explained that in the first few posts in the “Worldview of the Buddha” section. Everything in the world arises via Paṭicca Samuppāda; it is a universal principle like Newton’s laws of motion. However, only a Buddha can discover Paṭicca Samuppāda because it is a mental phenomenon, not a material one.
- All our thinking is clouded by that distorted saññā. Thus, we could say it is a root cause of avijjā. That is why it is the “Root of All Things”: “Mūlapariyāya Sutta – The Root of All Things” and “Saññā Nidānā hi Papañca Saṅkhā – Immoral Thoughts Based on ‘Distorted Saññā’.”
- If someone can get that basic idea, the upcoming posts will help clarify things further. Otherwise, forthcoming posts may not make sense. Also, read the previous comments in this thread.
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Let me put it this way.
- At which stage does an embryo (gandhabba plus the zygote) become a living being?
Yes. These are critical aspects to understand. Let me try to answer your questions with the following key points.
1. A living being, while in the beginningless rebirth process, has ALWAYS experienced a “distorted sanna” corresponding to the realm they are in.
- The first experience without a “distorted sanna” occurs at the moment of attaining the Sotapanna stage. That is when, for the very first time,” one gets a glimpse of Nibbana or the “suffering-free pabhassara mind.” But even that is not the “suffering-free pabhassara mind” because it still has seven unbroken samyojana. Thus, that state is called “sappabhasa citta” or the other names mentioned in my earlier comment.
- The same is true when attaining the Sakadagami and Anagami stages. They will have five unbroken samyojana.
- However, at the moment of Arahanthood, all samyojana are removed, and one will experience the pabhassara citta/mind for the first time.
2. Whether it is a “sappabhasa citta” or a pabhassara citta, a mind can hold that state only for a brief time. The mind returns to the “normal state” (human bhavanga state).
- As we know, a Sotapanna can generate greedy or angry thoughts while living an everyday life as a “householder.”
- The only difference between a Sotapanna and a puthujjana is that a Sotapanna‘s mind will not allow committing an “apayagami deed” because of the absence of the first three samyojana.
- In the same way, an Anagami will not be tempted by any sensory input in kama loka (since kama raga samyojana is absent), but will still crave “jhanic pleasures.”
- Only an Arahant will not be tempted by anything.
3. However, as we have discussed, everyone born with a human body (including Arahants) experiences the “distorted sanna” associated with kama loka while living everyday life. But Arahants’ and Angamis‘ minds will not attach to that “distorted sanna.“
- All others will be attached to the “distorted sanna” at various levels.
4. Sotapannas and Sakadagamis can cultivate the lokuttara version of Satipatthana and “recover” the “sappabhasa citta.” While in that state, they can engage in Vipassana and eliminate kama raga to attain the Anagami stage.
- A puthujjana would first cultivate the mundane version of Satipatthana and “get close” to the “sappabhasa citta.” Then, while listening to a discourse, reading Dhamma concepts, or simply contemplating Dhamma concepts, they will get to the “sappabhasa citta” and attain the Sotapanna stage.
5. That is a summary. If you or anyone else has questions, please ask. However, I will discuss the above in detail in upcoming posts.
- It may seem that those below the Sotapanna stage don’t need to learn about the “distorted sanna.“
- However, I believe that “getting the full picture” would also make it easier to reach the Sotapanna stage. Understanding that all we crave is “not real” (they are illusions) makes a big difference in the mindset.
- People value “sensory pleasures” and are willing to lie, cheat, and even kill for them. Once Buddha’s worldview sinks into the mind, it will be easier to avoid “akusala kamma,” at least those with significant consequences. Most of our immoral actions are based the “distorted sanna” as explained in “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā) ” and other recent posts.
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Until a gandhabba merges with it, a zygote (produced by an egg and a sperm) is “lifeless.”
- However, with the merging of a gandhabba, that zygote becomes alive—as alive as you and me.
- A gandhabba has a hadaya vatthu (seat of the mind) and five pasada rupa. That is the essence of a “living being.”
- The mind of the gandhabba is in the “bhavanga” state until the baby’s brain is developed and it can receive sensory inputs. Even inside the womb, it starts receiving sensory inputs gradually as the brain develops.
- Consider someone becoming unconscious for a few minutes. That person is not aware of anything, and no thoughts arise. Can we say that the person is not alive during that time? What determines “life” is the existence of a hadaya vatthu (seat of the mind) and five pasada rupa.
Taryal asked: “If a female accidentally becomes pregnant, should she be encouraged to forcefully bear the burden out of fear of the contrary being “immoral”? Additionally, how to view cases like a 12 year old girl being pregnant due to rape, for example? If I was a doctor, I don’t think there’s a chance I’d let her take the risk of giving birth.”
- That is a separate issue. Either way, those are hard and agonizing decisions. That is why life is suffering.
- That child did not get pregnant without a cause. It is a kamma vipaka. How one handles a kamma vipaka is a separate issue.
- Why would one come down with cancer (even if they took care of their health all their lives) or get into a car accident (even though it is not their fault)? There are an uncountable number of examples. Those are possible because we are born with this physical body.
The following are essential to keep in mind. They will help understand the current series of posts in the “Worldview of the Buddha” section.
1. The tendency is to think of samādhi as a “jhānic experience.” But samādhi is a “state of mind.” It can have many forms. A jhāna is one type of samādhi.
2. Samādhi (“sama” +” adhi” where “sama” means “same” and “adhi” means “dominance”) means keeping the mind focused on a single ārammaṇa or a nimitta. When attention is tightly focused on something, the mind gets to “samādhi,” based on that mindset. There can be billions of samādhi: some are neutral, some are good, and others are bad.
- A suicide bomber assembling a bomb is also entirely concentrated on it because if he makes a mistake, that will blow him up. Thus, he also gets into a samādhi, which is an example of evil or immoral samādhi.
- Someone listening to a discourse or meditating is in a good samādhi. They may also be fully absorbed in it.
- One may not hear external disturbances if fully absorbed in an exciting book. That is a neutral samādhi.
- Therefore, there can be billions of types of samādhi with the mind focused on a specific ārammaṇa.
3. There are only four types of Sammā Samādhi in Buddha Dhamma. Each one is associated with a magga phala.
- For example, Sotapanna phala samādhi attained at the Sotapanna phala moment is never lost. With that samādhi present at all times, a Sotapanna is incapable of doing “apāyagāmi kamma.”
- The highest is Arahant phala samādhi. With that samādhi present at all times, an Arahant is incapable of doing any “akusala kamma.”
- However, even though the Sammā Samādhi is never lost, the exact same mental state experienced at a magga phala moment does not stay with the person. Yet, it can be uncovered with practice. That mental state is “pabhassara citta/mind” for the Arahant phala; for all other magga phala, it is called “sappabhāsa citta” (all samyojana are eliminated only with “pabhassara citta/mind”). Those states can be uncovered by practicing Satipaṭṭhāna. Once uncovered, one can get into the corresponding samāpatti, where that state can be maintained for a while.
- Thus, a Sotapanna can practice Satipaṭṭhāna and get into sappabhāsa citta and maintain it for a while; it is also called “Satipaṭṭhāna bhumi,” “paccuppanna sati” or the “environment to cultivate Vipassana.” This is the only way to bypass the “kama saññā,” which is the “distorted saññā” in kama loka. I mentioned that at the end (#13) of the current post, “A Sensory Input Triggers (Distorted) Saññā and Pañcupādānakkhandha“; we will discuss it in upcoming posts.
- That is where a Sotapanna practices the lokuttara version of Satipaṭṭhāna to eliminate kāma rāga and to attain the Anāgāmi stage.
- Some of the above aspects will become clear in upcoming posts. I wanted to show the connections/implications.
Yaṁ buddhaseṭṭho parivaṇṇayī suciṁ – Any of the Buddhas who have achieved the highest purity (teach Dhamma that leads to):
Samādhimānantarikaññamāhu – Samādhim ānantarika añña āhu. It refers to a Samādhi inseparable from the magga phala (añña) attained (ānantarika). For example, the Samādhi attained at the Sotapanna stage (or any other stage) is never lost.
- Samādhi (sama + adhi), meaning leaning to some state. Here, it refers to Nibbana.
Samādhinā tena samo na vijjati – Samādhi nā tena samo na vijjati (such a Samādhi is not found anywhere else).
This sutta briefly summarizes the five ways to get to Sammā Samādhi and higher magga phala (above the Sotapanna stage).
- The first four ways are via the four jhanas.
- The fifth way that you quoted is without going through jhana.
- All five ways require cultivating the lokuttara version of Satipaṭṭhāna. That requires understanding the ajjhatta and bahiddha stages, which we have discussed in recent posts, for example, “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?.”
- This is what we will be discussing in future posts, as I pointed out at the end of today’s post: “A Sensory Input Triggers (Distorted) Saññā and Pañcupādānakkhandha.”
So, you are correct in your last comment.
Let me put a link to the quote in the sutta:
The English translation there is: “The Realized One has developed and cultivated the four bases of psychic power, made them a vehicle and a basis, kept them up, consolidated them, and properly implemented them. If he wished, the Realized One could live for the proper lifespan or what’s left of it.”
What you quoted in your original comment was: ““The Realized One has developed and cultivated the four bases of psychic power, made them a vehicle and a basis, kept them up, consolidated them, and properly implemented them. If he wished, the Realized One could live on for the eon or what’s left of the eon.”
- So, the actual translation does not say eon.
Now the Pali verse is: “Tathāgatassa kho, ānanda, cattāro iddhipādā bhāvitā bahulīkatā yānīkatā vatthukatā anuṭṭhitā paricitā susamāraddhā. Ākaṅkhamāno, ānanda, tathāgato kappaṁ vā tiṭṭheyya kappāvasesaṁ vā”ti.”
- Kappa means a lifetime. It is incorrect to translate kappa as an “eon.”
An eon is a “mahā kappa” not a “kappa.”
- As I pointed out in my comment above, the lifetime of a human (kappa) during the time of the Buddha was similar to today, about 100 years.
- At the time of that conversation with Ven. Ananda, Buddha was about 80 years old. He told Ven. Ananda that he could live for another 20 years or so because he had cultivated “cattāro iddhipāda.”
- Even a Buddha would not be able to live for a mahā kappa, which is several billion years!
- The English translations in both links are fine. They say either “lifespan” or “kappa” indicating a lifetime of about 100 years. You seem to have misinterpreted it as a mahā kappa.
- I would say this is a common mistake many people make.
Please make it a habit to quote a reference properly. That will save a lot of time for others.
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@Christian: Can you provide the reference for your quote? Which sutta is it?
- It appears to be a (bad) translation issue.
- Please provide the link to the specific translation you quoted. Some have translated correctly.
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Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts about this complex issue, Amin.
- It provides an aspect/point of view from a different angle.
- I hope more will share their experiences, too. I suspect those born in Western countries would have another perspective. Many of them look at it from a scientific or Christian point of view.
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Taryal wrote: “I’ve decided to prepare a few books and audio clips of (my understanding of) essential Dhamma concepts in local language so that those interested could learn a thing or two whenever they want. The primary goal remains to remove the defilements from my own mind.”
- Noble thoughts. Same for Yash.
It is good to try once, but if the response is not welcoming, it is better not to persist. Rather than chasing people, post your teachings/ideas somewhere. Such a “passive teaching” may be the best. Those interested will seek the truth and come across it. Several years ago, I also tried to engage in debates, etc., and I saw the drawbacks. It affected my practice and could have affected the practice of some who engaged in such “debates” and verbally abused me. One person started a website just to post abusive comments on me. I don’t ever “hold a drudge,” but it could not have been good for that person’s mindset to generate such hateful thoughts.
- The Buddha also warned that chasing people to teach Dhamma (who resist) is a lowly deed like chasing after a woman who has said “no.”
- We cannot “save” all—even the Buddha could not—but we must do what we can to help those who seek the truth.
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Hello Simple,
“What does it mean/refer to by “four kinds of mindfulness meditation”?”
- It refers to Satipaṭṭhāna meditation. Satipaṭṭhāna has four categories: kāyānupassanā, vēdanānupassanā, cittānupassanā, and dhammānupassanā.
- The four parts are briefly discussed in #5 of “Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta – Structure.”
- More posts in “Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta.”
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1. Several factors contribute to the tendency of the majority of people (puthujjana) to reject the Buddha’s more profound teachings.
- Of course, most people agree with the “mundane versions” of “Buddhism,” which encourage moral living. Most religions share this aspect.
- However, sticking to the idea that just “observing five or eight precepts” can remove suffering falls under the wrong view of “silabbata parāmāsa,” one of the three samyojana to be broken at the Sotapanna stage.
- To stop future suffering, one’s mind must AUTOMATICALLY reject the tendency to attach to sensory inputs. As we have discussed repeatedly, attachment to sensory inputs sooner or later leads to committing akusala kamma. Trying to live a “moral life” by forcefully observing precepts will not remove that inevitability.
- Instead, one MUST follow one of the following two approaches:
(i) One must constantly contemplate the drawbacks of sensory pleasures. For that, it is necessary to understand the Paticca Samuppada process. Even then, it is difficult to stop the tendency to attach to the “built-in saññā” or the “sense of joy” upon experiencing specific sensory inputs.
(ii). One can make the process easier by understanding that such a “sense of joy” arises from a false/distorted saññā. The external world and each “lifestream” are designed to provide that false/distorted saññā. This is the greatest magic trick. See “Saññā Gives Rise to Most of the Vedanā We Experience” “Saññā Nidānā hi Papañca Saṅkhā – Immoral Thoughts Based on “Distorted Saññā”,” and “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).” Of course, it is not easy to understand this “trick.” - For most people, such an idea is not acceptable. They cannot fathom the idea that sensory pleasures are a mirage. By the way, the word puthujjana comes from “puthu” meaning “most” and “jana” meaning “people.”
2. Trayal wrote: “I noticed that there are mainly 2 approaches to learning Dhamma – one is the moral approach and the other is the intellectual. For me, taking the intellectual route clearly shows that Buddha’s teachings don’t stem from a mere speculation or religious foundation. It contains rigorous analysis of mental phenomena that can be challenging to even the brightest minds and I’m often discovering something new. But for most people, this approach doesn’t seem to work.”
- Yes. That is what I tried to explain above. Even before getting into the fact that “saññā” is a mirage, the idea of “stopping rebirth” is a “show stopper” for many. They cannot even fathom living without “sensual pleasures.” Even those who cannot afford that many sensory pleasures are hopeful that one day they will make a lot of money to afford all sorts of such “pleasures.”
- To eliminate that notion, one must comprehend the origin of the false/distorted saññā. We are discussing that (again) in the new series of posts in the “Worldview of the Buddha” section.
- However, it is not easy. As Yash pointed out: “For that one must be open minded and have the ability to analyse any given information ,example , the pleasure cycle, anicca,etc.”
3. Most people tend to seek the “easy way out.” If someone teaches that one can be born in heaven by killing people of other religions, many are willing to accept that on faith.
- This is why the Buddha’s teachings tend to “go underground” relatively quickly. They are not easy to grasp, so the tendency to lose the “deep meanings” is very high.
- That happened in India merely 500 years after the Buddha’s passing. Instead, the Vedic teachings took hold very quickly. While they share many concepts from Buddha’s teachings, those are only superficial. Furthermore, one is guaranteed to “live forever” in a Brahma realm, which plays a huge role in ready acceptance. (Of course, they don’t realize that such a permanent existence is impossible if they examine Buddha’s teachings.) It happened with the previous Buddha (Buddha Kassapa), who appeared millions of years ago. The Vedās propagated the (twisted) teachings of Buddha Kassapa until Buddha Gotama appeared. See “Vedās Originated With Buddha Kassapa’s Teachings.”
- Thus, Vedic teachings are a mundane version of Buddhist teachings. Of course, they are much better than many other teachings practiced by puthujjana today.
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That was explained (indirectly) in #8 of the recent post “Mind-Pleasing Things” in the World Arise via Paṭicca Samuppāda.” I reproduce that below.
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“Paṭi+ichcha” also Leads to “Sama+uppāda“ – Making of the External World
8. The second, still mostly hidden, aspect of Paṭicca Samuppāda is that it creates the necessary environment (external world) to generate the appropriate “saññā.” I have been trying to explain this aspect for two years now; I don’t know how many have grasped this concept. I hope the current approach will be helpful!
- The kammic energies generated when one engages in akusala kamma (based on upādāna) lead to two effects: (i) they can bring vipāka for that person in the future (for example, lead to rebirth in a given realm), and (ii) that energy also contributes to the preparation of the external environment necessary to bring that vipāka. For example, a suitable environment must exist for an animal to be born.
- For example, when the Sun, Earth, and other planets are “re-formed,” initially, all four lowest realms are absent. Then, as people (Brahma-kāyika humans) start gradually “going back to their old ways and engaging in akusala kamma,” they generate kammic energies for their individual futures and also collectively to make the environment for such births to occur.
- In a newly-formed Earth, the animal realm will likely emerge first before the other three apāyās. Initially, the environment for animals to survive (vegetation) was absent. With the collective kammic energy being generated, that environment emerges first, i.e., plants appear first, plant-eating animals, and then carnivorous animals. The first animals of a given type appear with opapātika births. Depending on the situation, one of four birth types can occur; see “Four Types of Births in Buddhism.”
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The collective kammic energies by all living beings in our cakkavala (Earth-based) can affect the motions of the Sun and the Moon, thereby leading to changes in environmental conditions. These include droughts, hurricanes, floods, etc. Since abhisankhara (javana power) generated by humans is the strongest, human behavior dominantly affects these issues/conditions.
- The physical environment can drastically change over time if the collective human psyche becomes increasingly moral/immoral. That is how the lifetimes of humans (physical human bodies) move up to around 100,000 years and move down to around 10 years. Such changes occur over many millions of years.
- For example, human lifetimes have not changed significantly since the days of Buddha Gotama (around 100 years). But they are expected to increase to around 20,000 years when the next Buddha, Buddha Maitreya, will be born in millions of years. See the recent discussion, “Why Was Gotama Buddha’s Lifespan So Short Compared to Other Buddhas?“
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Yes, this is a complex issue. Let me think about it a bit more. I hope others have their own experiences and will share them, too.
- But something caught my eye about Taryal’s comment. I thought you previously stated (or I somehow got the idea) that your family was Buddhist. From the above comment, it appears that your family practiced Hinduism.
