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In his comment on December 12, 2025 at 4:46 pm (Reply #55914), Lang asked: “And I have asked the question “so what”, in this sense: “We know that saññā presents us a “world of pleasures” that keep us attached, yet they are illusion. Still, what can we do about it in terms of practice? How do we contemplate?”
- I did not provide an answer to the last part of Lang’s comment yesterday: “Still, what can we do about it in terms of practice? How do we contemplate?”
- We have not yet discussed in detail how to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna.
- I am still in the process of explaining the necessary background material. Over the past 2-3 years, I have tried to explain the concept of saññā. Then, in the “Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta – New Series” section, I provided background on Satipaṭṭhāna. Then, I realized that it would be necessary to explain the concept of pañcupādānakkhandha: “Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha)– New Series”
- What everyone needs to contemplate first is how the pañcupādānakkhandha arises in response to sensory input. That is equivalent to initiating a Paṭicca Samuppāda process.
- All of those steps are required to attain Sotapanna status. Only then can one practice Satipaṭṭhāna. To cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must enter Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi, which is free of all ‘loka saññā.’ The point is: avijjā cannot be triggered while the mind is in Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi. Thus, ‘real contemplation’ can happen only when the mind is in Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi.
- So, what one must contemplate right now is not to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, but to contemplate the background material and understand how raga, dosa, moha are automatically triggered by the viparita or distorted saññā that is built into us.
- The ‘anicca nature’ becomes clear (and becomes a Sandiṭṭhiko is a Sotapanna) when one truly comprehends how raga, dosa, moha are automatically triggered by the viparita or distorted saññā. See Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?
- This is also known as establishing ‘yoniso mansikāra‘ (understanding the root cause for defilements to arise automatically), a requirement for attaining Sotapanna status.
In his comment on December 12, 2025 at 4:46 pm (Reply #55914), Lang asked: “And I have asked the question “so what”, in this sense: “We know that saññā presents us a “world of pleasures” that keep us attached, yet they are illusion. Still, what can we do about it in terms of practice? How do we contemplate?”
- The practice of a Noble Person is based on that issue. One truly becomes a ‘sanditthiko‘ (one who has seen how ‘san‘ or ‘raga, dosa, moha‘ arise in the mind due to sanna) after comprehending this issue. See “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?“
- One cannot see the ‘anicca nature’ clearly until one understands that “mind-made rupa‘ does not correctly represent the ‘external rupa‘ out there in the world. That “mind-made rupa‘ means ‘rupa upadanakkhandha,’ and in almost all suttas is stated merely as ‘rupa.‘
- Eye-catching, colorful things don’t exist in the external world; the mind adds colors. Tasty foods are not in the external world; the mind adds tastes. The same applies to all other ‘mind-pleasing aspects.’
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In the same post, Lang wrote:
“My previous understanding, one based on vedana, gives me firmer ground to stand on in terms of contemplation. Let me recap:
A “world of pleasures” to me means sukha vedana and somanassa vedana, and they are real! Real in the sense that I can feel them, albeit they are effects of an illusion, and “real” enough to maybe lead to tanha, upadana, bhava, etc.
They are also real in the sense that they give me a firm ground for contemplation: that vedana, however much “sukha” and “somanassa” they are, are anicca, dukkha, anatta, since all past vedana have turned out to be just that.
I hope this adds a little more clarity to what I was trying to say.”
Let us look at a couple of statements in there:
1. “A ‘world of pleasures’ to me means sukha vedana and somanassa vedana, and they are real!“
- They are ‘real’ only in the sense that our bodies and the external environment have been ‘prepared’ (via Paticca Samuppada) to provide the corresponding ‘pleasing sanna.’ They arise at the very beginning of a sensory event (‘Rūpa dhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati rūpa saññā‘). See #2 of Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā
- Even an Arahant would feel them, but their minds do not attach to them, because they have ‘seen with wisdom’ that those are mirages.
- Those are not really vedana. This ‘sanna‘ is the only way that a ‘pleasing sensation’ can be generated via Paticca Samuppada. The Buddha called it a mirage: “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
- Then ‘samphassa-jā-vedanā‘ (the stronger mind-made vedana leading to firm attachment to the sensory input, i.e., tanha) arises in a puthujjana (or anyone below the Anagami stage) later in the ‘purna kamma‘ stage; see #12 in Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā.
2. The second part highlighted above in Lang’s comment: ‘They are also real in the sense that they give me a firm ground for contemplation: that vedana, however much “sukha” and “somanassa’ they are, are anicca, dukkha, anatta, since all past vedana have turned out to be just that.’
- That statement is correct only if one can truly grasp #1 above. Furthermore, ‘They are also real’ must be removed from that statement to read as: ‘They give me a firm ground for contemplation: that vedana, however much “sukha” and “somanassa’ they are, are anicca, dukkha, anatta, since all past vedana have turned out to be just that.’
- We are all trapped in this cycle of rebirth because of that built-in ‘sanna.’ They are definitely not ‘real’ in ‘ultimate reality’ or ‘paramattha dhamma.’ There are no colorful, tasty, .. things in the external world.
- This is what Buddha’s teachings are based on! The first step in Paticca Samuppada is due to that sanna, i.e., avijja arises because of that sanna: What Does “Paccayā” Mean in Paṭicca Samuppāda?
Here is another video that explains ‘colors do not exist in the world.’
- At 13 minutes: “No colors in the world, it is a shared illusion.”
- Then he says, “Colors are made up in the neurons in the brain.” That part is wrong according to the Buddha’s teachings. Colors are generated in the mind based on the information received from the brain. That is how the Paticca Samuppada process generates a “pleasurable world.”
- That initial ‘pleasure sensation’ (in the first step of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage) is only a saññā and is not there in the world. That initial ‘pleasure sensation’ is real (built into a human body) and is experienced even by an Arahant.
- However, the ‘samphassa-jā-vedanā’ that arises in the second step of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage is not generated in an Arahant. That can be stopped from arising with the elimination of samyojana.
P.S. I have revised the new post (“Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā“) to emphasize that point.
1. I did not see Lang’s added comments.
- Yes. That sequence is correct.
- Usually, a mind does not stop at the cakkhu viññāṇa stage for a puthujjana. But the mind can be stopped there by a Sotapanna who is cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna. That process involves stopping ‘new kamma‘ in the ‘nava kamma‘ stage first. I will write more about that in the next post.
- Up to now, I have tried to explain how the mind of a puthujjana gets increasingly attached to sensory inputs. They attach to ALL sensory inputs, but some do not go past the second step in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage (which I discussed in today’s post linked below).
2. Hopefully, the new post I just posted can further clarify the concepts involved: “Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā.”
- Feel free to ask questions on any post.
P.S. Lang wrote: “In one of my previous responses, I said I had trouble with the phrase “attaching to kāma saññā”. I had thought of “attaching” as tanha as in “… (samphassa-ja) vedana paccaya tanha.”
- The answer is in today’s post. Tanha happens in the second step in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage.
If I have not addressed any issues, please let me know. It is necessary to understand these fundamental concepts.
I added a new #10 to the post: Origin of Attachment – Rāga Triggered by Saññā
New post: Origin of Attachment – Rāga Triggered by Saññā
- Please feel free to ask questions (after carefully reading it and the links provided).
Dosakkhaya’s question: “Q. Then, kāya saṅkhāra does only refer to any type of saṅkhāra? Or can it have other meanings in different contexts? To be more specific, in other suttas, can kāya saṅkhāra refer to saṅkhāra related to bodily kamma?”
- I was also not sure about this for a while. But I believe ‘kāya saṅkhāra‘ always refers to those saṅkhāra associated with the ‘pañcupādānakkhandha kāya.’ In some cases, ‘kāya‘ refers not to the ‘whole pañcupādānakkhandha kāya’, but only to the ‘purāna kamma stage’ of the pañcupādānakkhandha kāya.’ In the early ‘purāna kamma’ stage, ‘kāya saṅkhāra’are mostly a weak version of saṅkhāra called saṅkappa. I think it is better not to get into this detail right now, because it may confuse some.
- Kamma are three types: mano, vaci, and kāya kamma. Mano kamma are those that arise automatically. Then we begin thinking (vitakka/vicāra) about speaking or taking physical action. Thus, both vaci and kāya kamma are performed through vaci saṅkhāra.
- The three types of saṅkhāra are defined in the “Dutiyakāmabhū Sutta (SN 41.6).” There, the English translation incorrectly translates “kāya” as “physical body.” I will write a post on these issues later.
Thank you, Dosakkhayo.
- Based on the comments of Lang, DhammaSponge, and Dosakkhayo, I think I have an idea of explaining the ‘sticky issues’ associated with understanding the role of saññā.
- I will focus on that in the next post, hopefully tomorrow.
- However, please feel free to post more comments in the meantime. The better I understand the ‘sticky issues,’ the clearer it becomes where I should focus.
I am glad that Lang is continuing to engage in the discussion. This is a critical aspect. Without discussions, we cannot resolve issues/bottlenecks.
1. Lang’s example is a good one. Everything is fine until we get to the following statement.
Lang wrote: “Next, body parts: blond “hair”, blue “eyes”, fair “skin” — these are still “from Lang”. His built-in saññā as a human (and perhaps his learning) make him identify those as “hair”, “eyes”, “skin”. At the suddhāṭṭhaka level there are no “hair”, “eyes”, “skin”. So “hair”, “eyes”, “skin” still come “from Lang”, not from “the object”.”
- The bolded part is not correct. That woman’s body is real and is made with suddhāṭṭhaka. It would have all the body parts, too.
- However, to provide the “attractiveness” (and for Lang to see the woman), all those colors are ‘induced in Lang’s mind’ via Paticca Samuppada. Not only Lang, but any human (including the older gentleman A) will see her that way. Gentleman A may not like the way she is dressed, but he would see her as ‘beautiful.’
- Let me add a few more relevant points: (i) she is born ‘beautiful’ because she had done some punna kamma with the expectation to enjoy life as a human. (ii) However, an animal would not care for ‘human beauty.’ If she has a dog, that dog would like her not because of her beauty, but because she would be taking care of it.
2. Now, to the question from Lang: ” Is it correct to say this: Objects in “the world out there” are (in a sense) blank slates, and our saññā projects qualities on them: red, blue, beautiful, ugly, pleasant, unpleasant, etc.”
- I hope the answer is explained above. Objects in the world out there are real. The woman would have all body parts (likely well-proportioned).
- However, Paticca Samuppada cannot produce colors or tastes directly. Only colorless, tasteless, smell-less suddhāṭṭhaka can be made by the mind. Paticca Samuppada process can only make ‘stuff’ (both internal and external) with suddhāṭṭhaka. This is why saññā plays a critical role in generating the mirage of colors, tastes, and other sensations. The Buddha directly called saññā a mirage in the “Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta (SN 22.95),” and we discussed that in the post, “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā.” Also see “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
3. P.S. Note that the ‘beauty of a woman’ saññā arising in Lang’s mind depends on the specific woman and also on Lang’s own gati (pronounced as ‘gathi’). Another man’s evaluation of that woman could differ somewhat, even though he would still consider her beautiful.
DhammaSponge wrote: “For example: I still have trouble eating healthy sometimes, even though I tell myself that the taste is not in the object.”
- This is what I tried to explain above. One must eat healthily to survive in this world and to learn Buddha’s teachings. It helps that foods have tastes. That is one reason why foods are made tasty via Paticca Samuppada. The other reason, of course, is to provide the ‘pleasure of eating’ that one had craved and led to this human life.
- If anyone is getting depressed after reading my posts, they should stop reading them. I don’t want to be responsible for ‘mental breakdowns.’ Buddha’s teachings, if properly grasped, will lead to joy, not to depression.
Since no one else has commented with their perspective, I thought I would respond to Lang’s last comment. This is in no way to ‘put down’ Lang. I am grateful that he was being honest. This material is not easy to digest. First, let me say a few words about that.
1. This is why, just after attaining Buddhahood, the Buddha decided not to teach his newfound Dhamma. He thought, “This Dhamma I have discovered is deep, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of mundane logic (atakkāvacaro), subtle, comprehensible only to the wise (paṇḍita).”
- For details, see #9 of “Attachment Is to Saññā, Not to Pañcakkhandha.”
2. In Lang’s last comment he wrote: “For the question “Why is this not a ‘big deal?’”, I must admit I do not (yet) see the “big deal” with it in terms of realizing nibbana. I mean no disrespect nor to trivialize this in anyway; I’m just churning all of this in my mind at the moment — very slowly.”
- Yes. It is a ‘big deal,’ and one cannot attain Nibbana without that understanding. We have been exposed to many Buddhās’ teachings throughout a beginningless process of rebirth. Unless one grasps the ‘keys to Nibbana,’ one merely starts over in a new existence.
- That is why attaining Nibbana cannot be measured in the number of attempts. See “The Infinity Problem in Buddhism.”
3. In Lang’s last comment he wrote: “The question then is “So what?”, in the sense of “We know that this is mind-made, so what can you do about it?”. In a way, this reality is all we have: it’s the reality for a particular person (or any sentient being) at that time, dictated by paticca samuppada.”
- What we can do is to fully understand how Paticca Samuppada processes are initiated. Each Paticca Samuppada process is initiated by ‘distorted saññā.’ We will be trapped in this rebirth process until we do. The Paticca Samuppada process stops the moment one attains the Arahant stage. Then it cannot again generate another existence where one is ‘being fooled’ by the ‘saññā that one is born with.’
- See “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
4. However, we must be careful not to totally reject ‘sensual pleasures.’ Many types of ‘saññā‘ are critical for our survival. Our bodies are designed with certain types of saññā to survive in our environment.
- See #10 of “Attachment Is to Saññā, Not to Pañcakkhandha.”
5. Let me try one more time to point out how we attach to ‘mind-pleasing things’ in the world via ‘distorted saññā.’
- As I emphasized many times, the easiest way is to look at the impact of ‘colorful things.’
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Life would be pretty boring without colors! But the world is truly ‘colorless.’ It is the ‘ultimate reality.’
This is a critical point to understand. The following video shows what the world would look like without color (actually with just two colors, black and white).
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- This second video also does not convey the full impact. In a ‘colorless world,’ there is no ‘black or white’ either! Essentially, there will be nothing to see. That is why Paticca Samuppada (or the mind via Paticca Samuppada) makes a ‘colorful world.’
- We will not be able to see any objects without them ‘having colors.’ However, the objects in the world do not have inherent colors. The ‘color perception’ is mind-made via Paticca Samuppada.
- Paticca Samuppada does not try to get us into trouble. It merely prepares one’s internal and external worlds to provide the ‘pleasures’ one is pursuing. Of course, if one engages in immoral deeds, the birth will accordingly be filled with much suffering. The problem is that when one pursues ‘pleasures’, it is inevitable that one will, sooner or later, engage in immoral deeds, which will lead to rebirths in an apaya. Please don’t think you can avoid that in the long run. We know, for example, that Ven. Moggalana was in an apaya just before he was reborn a human to attain Arahanthood.
- The above videos are from the post “Colors Are Mind-Made (Due to Kāma Saññā).”
6. Again, I encourage all to comment. I don’t know what types of unresolved questions one has or how many people understand what I am trying to say. As I emphasized above, ‘tinkering at the edges’ (just engaging in good deeds and living a moral life) is not enough to attain Nibbana. Of course, those things are required too.
- We must understand the deeper aspects of Buddha’s teachings to make a difference.
- Furthermore, one may get depressed only by having a superficial understanding. As I emphasized in #4 above, we must also understand that many types of ‘saññā‘ are critical for our survival. Simple example: We will not be able to drive around without the help of ‘color lights’ at junctions. Even an Arahant would know they must abide by those rules (such as stopping at a red light) to live in this world. But since they have fully understood that ‘colors are mind-made,’ they will not be reborn in this suffering-filled world again.
Let me see whether I can address some issues in Lang’s first comment today (December 10, 2025 at 11:14 am) ;
1. Lang wrote: “I have trouble understanding the phrase “attaching to kāma saññā“, and I have read all the posts and tried to digest them to the best of my ability. I have always understood attachment (tanha) in the context of vedana, as per paticca samuppada: … vedana paccaya tanha …”
- In most cases, it is hard to distinguish between saññā and vedana, especially at the very beginning of a sensory event.
- Just below your above comment, you wrote: “Seeing the blue sky on a beautiful day could lead to a good feeling (somanassa vedana), and attachment (tanha) is to that vedana.”
- No. The first attachment is to the ‘saññā of blue sky on a beautiful day.’ The sky (or anything else in the world) does not have the blue color. The mind goes through many steps before reaching the “vedana paccaya tanha” and “tanha paccaya upadana” steps in Paticca Samuppada. See the chart in #6 of “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- In many cases, it is hard to distinguish between saññā and vedana. See “Saññā Gives Rise to Most of the Vedanā We Experience.”
- It is critical to understand saññā. See, for example, “Saññā – Hidden Aspect of Paṭicca Samuppāda.” See different types of saññā discussed starting from #6.
- It takes a determined effort to understand these deep concepts. Feel free to ask questions on any of the above by referring to the post and relevant bullet numbers.
- I am glad that Lang spoke his mind. That is the only way I can determine which issues to focus on.
2. After that, Lang wrote: “(2) Person B looks at the same blue sky on such a beautiful day and could have a bad feeling (domanassa vedana) instead. B’s story could be something like: “Last year, on a day just like this, I lost a loved one”, and tanha in B arises dependent on that domanassa vedana.
- There, the ‘blue sky’ is not the cause of domanassa vedana for person B. The reason for his domanassa vedana is in your following sentence: “Last year, on a day just like this, I lost a loved one.”
1. Your last two posts are the only real feedback I have received. Thank you for that.
- Otherwise, I could be writing away endlessly, and no one could understand what I am talking about.
2. I think it is better (at least for the moment) not to go into Abhidhamma aspects. We don’t need to get into suddhāṭṭhaka, pasada rupa, hadaya vatthu, etc., to understand the basic ideas. Once one has the basic idea, that understanding can be expanded through Abhidhamma as one delves deeper.
3. I hope others will post comments so that I can get an idea of what I need to focus on in the next post.
