Ratana Sutta

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    • #53276
      silasampanno
      Participant

      Hi, Lal.

      I’m translating Ratana Sutta into Korean, and i have a question.

      Yaṁ buddhaseṭṭho parivaṇṇayī suciṁ, Samādhimānantarikaññamāhu;

      Samādhinā tena samo na vijjati, Idampi dhamme ratanaṁ paṇītaṁ;

      Etena saccena suvatthi hotu.

       

      • Sutta Central translated :

      The purity praised by the highest Buddha, is said to be the “immersion with immediate fruit”;

      no equal to that immersion is found. This sublime gem is in the Dhamma:

      by this truth, may you be well!

       

      I think Samādhimānantarikaññamāhu has been translated into immersion with immediate fruit.

      And Samādhi seems to have been translated to immersion.

      What I’m curious about in this sentence is what is the immediate fruit.

      This translation is ambiguous to me.

      So, I want to know the deeer meaning of this expression.

       

      Question : What does mean Samādhimānantarikaññamāhu?

       

      May all being be happy _()_

    • #53279
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Yaṁ buddhaseṭṭho parivaṇṇayī suciṁ – Any of the Buddhas who have achieved the highest purity (teach Dhamma that leads to):

      Samādhimānantarikaññamāhu – Samādhim ānantarika añña āhu. It refers to a Samādhi inseparable from the magga phala (añña) attained (ānantarika). For example, the Samādhi attained at the Sotapanna stage (or any other stage) is never lost.

      • Samādhi (sama + adhi), meaning leaning to some state. Here, it refers to Nibbana

      Samādhinā tena samo na vijjati – Samādhi nā tena samo na vijjati (such a Samādhi is not found anywhere else).

    • #53280
      Lal
      Keymaster

      The following are essential to keep in mind. They will help understand the current series of posts in the “Worldview of the Buddha” section.

      1. The tendency is to think of samādhi as a “jhānic experience.” But samādhi is a “state of mind.” It can have many forms. A jhāna is one type of samādhi.

      2. Samādhi (“sama” +” adhi” where “sama” means “same” and “adhi” means “dominance”) means keeping the mind focused on a single ārammaṇa or a nimitta. When attention is tightly focused on something, the mind gets to “samādhi,” based on that mindset. There can be billions of samādhi: some are neutral, some are good, and others are bad.

      • A suicide bomber assembling a bomb is also entirely concentrated on it because if he makes a mistake, that will blow him up. Thus, he also gets into a samādhi, which is an example of evil or immoral samādhi.
      • Someone listening to a discourse or meditating is in a good samādhi. They may also be fully absorbed in it.
      • One may not hear external disturbances if fully absorbed in an exciting book. That is a neutral samādhi.
      • Therefore, there can be billions of types of samādhi with the mind focused on a specific ārammaṇa.

      3. There are only four types of Sammā Samādhi in Buddha Dhamma. Each one is associated with a magga phala.

      • For example, Sotapanna phala samādhi attained at the Sotapanna phala moment is never lost. With that samādhi present at all times, a Sotapanna is incapable of doing “apāyagāmi kamma.” 
      • The highest is Arahant phala samādhi. With that samādhi present at all times, an Arahant is incapable of doing any “akusala kamma.” 
      • However, even though the Sammā Samādhi is never lost, the exact same mental state experienced at a magga phala moment does not stay with the person. Yet, it can be uncovered with practice. That mental state is “pabhassara citta/mind” for the Arahant phala; for all other magga phala, it is called “sappabhāsa citta” (all samyojana are eliminated only with “pabhassara citta/mind”). Those states can be uncovered by practicing Satipaṭṭhāna. Once uncovered, one can get into the corresponding samāpatti, where that state can be maintained for a while.
      • Thus, a Sotapanna can practice Satipaṭṭhāna and get into sappabhāsa citta and maintain it for a while; it is also called “Satipaṭṭhāna bhumi,” “paccuppanna sati” or the “environment to cultivate Vipassana.” This is the only way to bypass the “kama saññā,” which is the “distorted saññā” in kama loka. I mentioned that at the end (#13) of the current post, “A Sensory Input Triggers (Distorted) Saññā and Pañcupādānakkhandha“; we will discuss it in upcoming posts.
      • That is where a Sotapanna practices the lokuttara version of Satipaṭṭhāna to eliminate kāma rāga and to attain the Anāgāmi stage.
      • Some of the above aspects will become clear in upcoming posts. I wanted to show the connections/implications.
    • #53286
      silasampanno
      Participant

      Thanks to your two answers, I can understand the sentence I asked more deeply.

      I understand the content of #1 and #2 to some extent, but the content of #3 is really intersting!

      You said :

      “Sotapanna phala samādhi attained at the Sotapanna phala moment is never lost. (…) However, even though the Sammā Samādhi is never lost, the exact same mental state experienced at a magga phala moment does not stay with the person.”

       

      To summarize the above two sentences, Sammā Samādhi attained at the Sotapanna phala moment cannot leave the person and becomes a basic state. But the Sotapanna phala moment’s mental state only happens at that moment, and does not last. The mental state that can be experienced under the Arahant stage is called “sapabhāsa citta”. And, this citta can be experienced again if the person practice Satipaṭṭhāna.

      Is there a problem with my understanding?

    • #53292
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Yes. These are critical aspects to understand. Let me try to answer your questions with the following key points. 

      1. A living being, while in the beginningless rebirth process, has ALWAYS experienced a “distorted sanna” corresponding to the realm they are in.

      • The first experience without a “distorted sanna” occurs at the moment of attaining the Sotapanna stage. That is when, for the very first time,” one gets a glimpse of Nibbana or the “suffering-free pabhassara mind.” But even that is not the “suffering-free pabhassara mind” because it still has seven unbroken samyojana. Thus, that state is called “sappabhasa citta” or the other names mentioned in my earlier comment.
      • The same is true when attaining the Sakadagami and Anagami stages. They will have five unbroken samyojana.
      • However, at the moment of Arahanthood, all samyojana are removed, and one will experience the pabhassara citta/mind for the first time.

      2. Whether it is a “sappabhasa citta” or a pabhassara citta, a mind can hold that state only for a brief time. The mind returns to the “normal state” (human bhavanga state). 

      • As we know, a Sotapanna can generate greedy or angry thoughts while living an everyday life as a “householder.” 
      • The only difference between a Sotapanna and a puthujjana is that a Sotapanna‘s mind will not allow committing an “apayagami deed” because of the absence of the first three samyojana.
      • In the same way, an Anagami will not be tempted by any sensory input in kama loka (since kama raga samyojana is absent), but will still crave “jhanic pleasures.”
      • Only an Arahant will not be tempted by anything. 

      3. However, as we have discussed, everyone born with a human body (including Arahants) experiences the “distorted sanna” associated with kama loka while living everyday life. But Arahants’ and Angamis‘ minds will not attach to that “distorted sanna.

      • All others will be attached to the “distorted sanna” at various levels.

      4. Sotapannas and Sakadagamis can cultivate the lokuttara version of Satipatthana and “recover” the “sappabhasa citta.” While in that state, they can engage in Vipassana and eliminate kama raga to attain the Anagami stage.

      • A puthujjana would first cultivate the mundane version of Satipatthana and “get close” to the “sappabhasa citta.” Then, while listening to a discourse, reading Dhamma concepts, or simply contemplating Dhamma concepts, they will get to the “sappabhasa citta” and attain the Sotapanna stage.

      5. That is a summary. If you or anyone else has questions, please ask. However, I will discuss the above in detail in upcoming posts. 

      • It may seem that those below the Sotapanna stage don’t need to learn about the “distorted sanna.
      • However, I believe that “getting the full picture” would also make it easier to reach the Sotapanna stage. Understanding that all we crave is “not real” (they are illusions) makes a big difference in the mindset. 
      • People value “sensory pleasures” and are willing to lie, cheat, and even kill for them. Once Buddha’s worldview sinks into the mind, it will be easier to avoid “akusala kamma,” at least those with significant consequences. Most of our immoral actions are based the “distorted sanna” as explained in “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā) ” and other recent posts.
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    • #53294
      silasampanno
      Participant

      Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!

      Thanks to your answer, my understanding of Satipatthana has become more solid.

      And, I didn’t understand exactly what ‘a glimpse of Nibbana means, which is thanks to your explanation that that experience happens without distored sanna at the moment of attaining the Sotapanna stage.

      This content will definitely be of great help to a lot of people.

      I can’t wait to read the next post. I will read the post and ask the forum if I have any questions.

      May all being be happy _()_

    • #53296
      Lal
      Keymaster

      You wrote: “And, I didn’t understand exactly what ‘a glimpse of Nibbana means, which is thanks to your explanation that that experience happens without distorted saññā at the moment of attaining the Sotapanna stage.”

      • I am glad that you understood.
      • All our immoral deeds (and thus future suffering) are based on the distorted saññā, i.e., our false perception that external things (sights, sounds, tastes, ..) have mind-pleasing aspects embedded in them.
      • Paṭicca Samuppāda programs our mental and physical bodies AND those external things to provide that distorted saññā. This is THE critical aspect to understand. I explained that in the first few posts in the “Worldview of the Buddha” section. Everything in the world arises via Paṭicca Samuppāda; it is a universal principle like Newton’s laws of motion. However, only a Buddha can discover Paṭicca Samuppāda because it is a mental phenomenon, not a material one.
      • All our thinking is clouded by that distorted saññā. Thus, we could say it is a root cause of avijjā. That is why it is the “Root of All Things”: “Mūlapariyāya Sutta – The Root of All Things” and “Saññā Nidānā hi Papañca Saṅkhā – Immoral Thoughts Based on ‘Distorted Saññā’.”
      • If someone can get that basic idea, the upcoming posts will help clarify things further. Otherwise, forthcoming posts may not make sense. Also, read the previous comments in this thread.
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