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Thank you for sharing that life experience, Tetsuo. Those are insightful comments. Also, welcome to the forum!
- Let me add the following.
Saññā is a largely unknown concept, particularly in the Western world. It is an ‘innate feeling’ that arises spontaneously.
- Some saññā are necessary for our survival: we feel the urge to use the bathroom or to eat when we are hungry. Color is a saññā, and it helps us avoid collisions at junctions or deciding whether a fruit is ripe for eating. Migrating birds would not survive without the saññā that enables them to leave their current location at a specific time and fly in a particular direction (they have built-in tiny magnets) to reach a safe destination. There are many such examples.
- Some saññā are the root cause for keeping us bound to the cycle of rebirth: Mind-pleasing sensations are initially generated via saññā. All our cravings and attachments begin with that critical step. As we have discussed, ‘color sanna‘ is the easiest to understand, since modern science has fully confirmed that colors are not in external objects or in light itself. That is why the Buddha called it a mirage; the same applies to tastes, aromas, and the like. Use your favorite AI (ChatGPT, Gemini, Grok, etc.) to verify that to your satisfaction.
Therefore, we must use the first type to live a healthy and long life (so that we can attain a magga phala). Simultaneously, we must contemplate the ‘unfruitful, dangerous, anicca nature’ of attaching to the second type to reach a magga phala.
- Keep in mind, as Tetsuo pointed out, ‘restraining the senses through willpower’ is unwise and could backfire, leading to depression. When one begins to see the drawbacks of attachment to ‘mind-made sensory pleasures’, such cravings will subside over time. P.S. The first task is to comprehend the fact that our attachments are rooted in kāma saññā; that is, Sammā Diṭṭhi with yoniso manasikāra, i.e., understanding the ‘genesis’ (‘yoni‘) of ‘san‘ (raga, dosa, moha) accumulation.
In his comment on December 12, 2025 at 4:46 pm (Reply #55914), Lang asked: “And I have asked the question “so what”, in this sense: “We know that saññā presents us a “world of pleasures” that keep us attached, yet they are illusion. Still, what can we do about it in terms of practice? How do we contemplate?”
- I did not provide an answer to the last part of Lang’s comment yesterday: “Still, what can we do about it in terms of practice? How do we contemplate?”
- We have not yet discussed in detail how to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna.
- I am still in the process of explaining the necessary background material. Over the past 2-3 years, I have tried to explain the concept of saññā. Then, in the “Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta – New Series” section, I provided background on Satipaṭṭhāna. Then, I realized that it would be necessary to explain the concept of pañcupādānakkhandha: “Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha)– New Series”
- What everyone needs to contemplate first is how the pañcupādānakkhandha arises in response to sensory input. That is equivalent to initiating a Paṭicca Samuppāda process.
- All of those steps are required to attain Sotapanna status. Only then can one practice Satipaṭṭhāna. To cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must enter Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi, which is free of all ‘loka saññā.’ The point is: avijjā cannot be triggered while the mind is in Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi. Thus, ‘real contemplation’ can happen only when the mind is in Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi.
- So, what one must contemplate right now is not to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, but to contemplate the background material and understand how raga, dosa, moha are automatically triggered by the viparita or distorted saññā that is built into us.
- The ‘anicca nature’ becomes clear (and becomes a Sandiṭṭhiko is a Sotapanna) when one truly comprehends how raga, dosa, moha are automatically triggered by the viparita or distorted saññā. See Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?
- This is also known as establishing ‘yoniso mansikāra‘ (understanding the root cause for defilements to arise automatically), a requirement for attaining Sotapanna status.
In his comment on December 12, 2025 at 4:46 pm (Reply #55914), Lang asked: “And I have asked the question “so what”, in this sense: “We know that saññā presents us a “world of pleasures” that keep us attached, yet they are illusion. Still, what can we do about it in terms of practice? How do we contemplate?”
- The practice of a Noble Person is based on that issue. One truly becomes a ‘sanditthiko‘ (one who has seen how ‘san‘ or ‘raga, dosa, moha‘ arise in the mind due to sanna) after comprehending this issue. See “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?“
- One cannot see the ‘anicca nature’ clearly until one understands that “mind-made rupa‘ does not correctly represent the ‘external rupa‘ out there in the world. That “mind-made rupa‘ means ‘rupa upadanakkhandha,’ and in almost all suttas is stated merely as ‘rupa.‘
- Eye-catching, colorful things don’t exist in the external world; the mind adds colors. Tasty foods are not in the external world; the mind adds tastes. The same applies to all other ‘mind-pleasing aspects.’
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In the same post, Lang wrote:
“My previous understanding, one based on vedana, gives me firmer ground to stand on in terms of contemplation. Let me recap:
A “world of pleasures” to me means sukha vedana and somanassa vedana, and they are real! Real in the sense that I can feel them, albeit they are effects of an illusion, and “real” enough to maybe lead to tanha, upadana, bhava, etc.
They are also real in the sense that they give me a firm ground for contemplation: that vedana, however much “sukha” and “somanassa” they are, are anicca, dukkha, anatta, since all past vedana have turned out to be just that.
I hope this adds a little more clarity to what I was trying to say.”
Let us look at a couple of statements in there:
1. “A ‘world of pleasures’ to me means sukha vedana and somanassa vedana, and they are real!“
- They are ‘real’ only in the sense that our bodies and the external environment have been ‘prepared’ (via Paticca Samuppada) to provide the corresponding ‘pleasing sanna.’ They arise at the very beginning of a sensory event (‘Rūpa dhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati rūpa saññā‘). See #2 of Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā
- Even an Arahant would feel them, but their minds do not attach to them, because they have ‘seen with wisdom’ that those are mirages.
- Those are not really vedana. This ‘sanna‘ is the only way that a ‘pleasing sensation’ can be generated via Paticca Samuppada. The Buddha called it a mirage: “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
- Then ‘samphassa-jā-vedanā‘ (the stronger mind-made vedana leading to firm attachment to the sensory input, i.e., tanha) arises in a puthujjana (or anyone below the Anagami stage) later in the ‘purna kamma‘ stage; see #12 in Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā.
2. The second part highlighted above in Lang’s comment: ‘They are also real in the sense that they give me a firm ground for contemplation: that vedana, however much “sukha” and “somanassa’ they are, are anicca, dukkha, anatta, since all past vedana have turned out to be just that.’
- That statement is correct only if one can truly grasp #1 above. Furthermore, ‘They are also real’ must be removed from that statement to read as: ‘They give me a firm ground for contemplation: that vedana, however much “sukha” and “somanassa’ they are, are anicca, dukkha, anatta, since all past vedana have turned out to be just that.’
- We are all trapped in this cycle of rebirth because of that built-in ‘sanna.’ They are definitely not ‘real’ in ‘ultimate reality’ or ‘paramattha dhamma.’ There are no colorful, tasty, .. things in the external world.
- This is what Buddha’s teachings are based on! The first step in Paticca Samuppada is due to that sanna, i.e., avijja arises because of that sanna: What Does “Paccayā” Mean in Paṭicca Samuppāda?
Here is another video that explains ‘colors do not exist in the world.’
- At 13 minutes: “No colors in the world, it is a shared illusion.”
- Then he says, “Colors are made up in the neurons in the brain.” That part is wrong according to the Buddha’s teachings. Colors are generated in the mind based on the information received from the brain. That is how the Paticca Samuppada process generates a “pleasurable world.”
- That initial ‘pleasure sensation’ (in the first step of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage) is only a saññā and is not there in the world. That initial ‘pleasure sensation’ is real (built into a human body) and is experienced even by an Arahant.
- However, the ‘samphassa-jā-vedanā’ that arises in the second step of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage is not generated in an Arahant. That can be stopped from arising with the elimination of samyojana.
P.S. I have revised the new post (“Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā“) to emphasize that point.
1. I did not see Lang’s added comments.
- Yes. That sequence is correct.
- Usually, a mind does not stop at the cakkhu viññāṇa stage for a puthujjana. But the mind can be stopped there by a Sotapanna who is cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna. That process involves stopping ‘new kamma‘ in the ‘nava kamma‘ stage first. I will write more about that in the next post.
- Up to now, I have tried to explain how the mind of a puthujjana gets increasingly attached to sensory inputs. They attach to ALL sensory inputs, but some do not go past the second step in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage (which I discussed in today’s post linked below).
2. Hopefully, the new post I just posted can further clarify the concepts involved: “Taṇhā – Saññā Leading to Mind-Made Vedanā.”
- Feel free to ask questions on any post.
P.S. Lang wrote: “In one of my previous responses, I said I had trouble with the phrase “attaching to kāma saññā”. I had thought of “attaching” as tanha as in “… (samphassa-ja) vedana paccaya tanha.”
- The answer is in today’s post. Tanha happens in the second step in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage.
If I have not addressed any issues, please let me know. It is necessary to understand these fundamental concepts.
I added a new #10 to the post: Origin of Attachment – Rāga Triggered by Saññā
New post: Origin of Attachment – Rāga Triggered by Saññā
- Please feel free to ask questions (after carefully reading it and the links provided).
Dosakkhaya’s question: “Q. Then, kāya saṅkhāra does only refer to any type of saṅkhāra? Or can it have other meanings in different contexts? To be more specific, in other suttas, can kāya saṅkhāra refer to saṅkhāra related to bodily kamma?”
- I was also not sure about this for a while. But I believe ‘kāya saṅkhāra‘ always refers to those saṅkhāra associated with the ‘pañcupādānakkhandha kāya.’ In some cases, ‘kāya‘ refers not to the ‘whole pañcupādānakkhandha kāya’, but only to the ‘purāna kamma stage’ of the pañcupādānakkhandha kāya.’ In the early ‘purāna kamma’ stage, ‘kāya saṅkhāra’are mostly a weak version of saṅkhāra called saṅkappa. I think it is better not to get into this detail right now, because it may confuse some.
- Kamma are three types: mano, vaci, and kāya kamma. Mano kamma are those that arise automatically. Then we begin thinking (vitakka/vicāra) about speaking or taking physical action. Thus, both vaci and kāya kamma are performed through vaci saṅkhāra.
- The three types of saṅkhāra are defined in the “Dutiyakāmabhū Sutta (SN 41.6).” There, the English translation incorrectly translates “kāya” as “physical body.” I will write a post on these issues later.
Thank you, Dosakkhayo.
- Based on the comments of Lang, DhammaSponge, and Dosakkhayo, I think I have an idea of explaining the ‘sticky issues’ associated with understanding the role of saññā.
- I will focus on that in the next post, hopefully tomorrow.
- However, please feel free to post more comments in the meantime. The better I understand the ‘sticky issues,’ the clearer it becomes where I should focus.
I am glad that Lang is continuing to engage in the discussion. This is a critical aspect. Without discussions, we cannot resolve issues/bottlenecks.
1. Lang’s example is a good one. Everything is fine until we get to the following statement.
Lang wrote: “Next, body parts: blond “hair”, blue “eyes”, fair “skin” — these are still “from Lang”. His built-in saññā as a human (and perhaps his learning) make him identify those as “hair”, “eyes”, “skin”. At the suddhāṭṭhaka level there are no “hair”, “eyes”, “skin”. So “hair”, “eyes”, “skin” still come “from Lang”, not from “the object”.”
- The bolded part is not correct. That woman’s body is real and is made with suddhāṭṭhaka. It would have all the body parts, too.
- However, to provide the “attractiveness” (and for Lang to see the woman), all those colors are ‘induced in Lang’s mind’ via Paticca Samuppada. Not only Lang, but any human (including the older gentleman A) will see her that way. Gentleman A may not like the way she is dressed, but he would see her as ‘beautiful.’
- Let me add a few more relevant points: (i) she is born ‘beautiful’ because she had done some punna kamma with the expectation to enjoy life as a human. (ii) However, an animal would not care for ‘human beauty.’ If she has a dog, that dog would like her not because of her beauty, but because she would be taking care of it.
2. Now, to the question from Lang: ” Is it correct to say this: Objects in “the world out there” are (in a sense) blank slates, and our saññā projects qualities on them: red, blue, beautiful, ugly, pleasant, unpleasant, etc.”
- I hope the answer is explained above. Objects in the world out there are real. The woman would have all body parts (likely well-proportioned).
- However, Paticca Samuppada cannot produce colors or tastes directly. Only colorless, tasteless, smell-less suddhāṭṭhaka can be made by the mind. Paticca Samuppada process can only make ‘stuff’ (both internal and external) with suddhāṭṭhaka. This is why saññā plays a critical role in generating the mirage of colors, tastes, and other sensations. The Buddha directly called saññā a mirage in the “Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta (SN 22.95),” and we discussed that in the post, “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā.” Also see “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
3. P.S. Note that the ‘beauty of a woman’ saññā arising in Lang’s mind depends on the specific woman and also on Lang’s own gati (pronounced as ‘gathi’). Another man’s evaluation of that woman could differ somewhat, even though he would still consider her beautiful.
