[Tobias G]

Is panna same as nana? When someone reaches the Arahant stage his/her panna becomes full developed and he/she attains samma nana. So it seems nana equals panna.

[Tobias G]

Hi Lal,
that statement seems not correct:
“– If kamasava is there, ditthasava is definitely there.”

A Sotapanna has removed ditthasava but still has kamasava.

[Tobias G]

Hi Sengkiat, I cannot download the pdf (“400 bad request”). Can you help?

[Tobias G]

There is one more issue in the post Feelings: Sukha, Dukha, Somanassa, and Domanassa. In #11 it is said:

“Now let us consider the consequences of sankhāra in this life, that we mentioned in #6 above. Suppose a teenager starts associating with bad friends and start drinking alcohol. Initially, he does not even like the taste of it, i.e., he may be generating a dukha vēdanā due to the taste of alcohol. But with the insistence of those friends he continues drinking.

Then he makes a habit (gati) of it, begins to perceive the taste as a sukha vēdanā, and starts making sankhāra about drinking. …”

How can the teeanager change his perception from dukha to sukha vedana without the mind inbetween? Actually he should only be able to change his domanassa vedana to somanassa vedana. Sukha or dukha vedana are part of bhava and not mind made or depending on gathi/asava.

[Tobias G]

Hi Lal,
in your post November 21, 2018 at 8:16 am you say:

Obviously, an Arahant also tastes the sweetness of sugar. Does that count as a “sukha vedana”? May be this needs to be decided at how a “sukha vedana” is defined.

Is “sukha vedana” defined as “a bodily sensation”? If so, sweetness of sugar would not count as a sukha vedana.

But in the post Does Bodily Pain Arise Only Due to Kamma Vipāka? #3 it is said:

This is why In Abhidhamma, all sense inputs via the other five sense inputs (other than physical body) are initially felt as upekkha (neutral) vēdanā. Only the bodily sense inputs could lead to dukkha vēdanā (getting injured, headaches, cancer, etc) or sukha vēdanā (good massage, lying on a comfortable bed, etc).

Here is nothing mentioned that involves the other 5 sense inputs, only kaya rupa are in play. Thus only with the body one can feel sukha and dukha vedana as kamma vipaka. But of course kama guna are felt by all including Arahants. Somehow there is a missing link…

[Tobias G]

As I understand javana is part of citta. But is javana also part of the physical sound or the sadda rupa?

[Tobias G]

Does this mean, when tasting the sweetness of sugar, this is sukha vedana and also kama guna?

[Tobias G]

What I don’t understand is, how sukha vedana can arise while eating tasty food or smelling a nice odor. This should be sensed by ghana rupa and jivha rupa. Is here kaya rupa involved?

[Tobias G]

That means if kaya rupa are involved sukha or dukha vedana can directly arise. But if the sense input contains only cakkhu, sota, ghana, jivha rupa and dhamma then upekkha vedana will arise. Is that correct?

That is also said here: https://puredhamma.net/living-dhamma/what-is-vedana-feelings/does-bodily-pain-arise-only-due-to-kamma-vipaka/

[Tobias G]

So you say this “unpleasant feeling” or initial bodily reaction is “neurobiological suffering”? But any suffering is connected to vedana. Also Lal describes dukha vedana as a vedana felt via the physical body (via five physical senses).

Could it be correct this way?: a “normal” sound coming to the ear is neutral vipaka. But a strong sound is not only sensed by the ear but also by the body (kaya rupa). Bodily sensations can be directly sukha and dukha vedana. This is what even the Arahant feels (pain) and what you call “neurobiological suffering”. Thus a very loud sound can be felt as dukha vedana, but not as domanassa vedana.

The same line of reasoning would be valid for smelling an acid. The smell is neutral vipaka but the acid would immediately cause dukha vedana via kaya rupa (body).

[Tobias G]

Christian, what you describe is the follow up thoughts which can be somanassa or domanassa vedana. That is mind made, agreed. I mean the inital vipaka vedana. The ear-piercing sound will cause unpleasant vedana even in an Arahant and his body will probably automatically react. How can this be neutral?

[Tobias G]

Hi Lodonyo,
What you describe here was also a big part of my world view in the past. So I can understand you at least a bit. Let me answer your questions as good as I can.

Questions:
1. Is it a good idea to just “admit” the reality of merit giving, despite any thoughts of it being contrived or “selfish”. Should I make a concerted effort every day to simply accumulate and dedicate merit however I can as a general gathi-cultivator??? Should I strive against any behavior that says otherwise?

One should learn the Buddha Dhamma and contemplate about it so that one can really feel joy related to giving. One needs compassion and a good heart. That comes with the understanding of the true nature of this world or Tilakkhana. You should do Satipattana and therefore act with sati all day. Whatever comes to the mind must be seen with sati, whether it is good/moral, neutral/functional, bad/unmoral. Discard all unmoral thinking, stop it with force if nothing helps. After a certain time your mind will know right from wrong.

Is giving mental/physical offerings on a personal altar any good at all? Do beings in paralowa/loka or upper realms really benefit from such things and what about a sotapanna abandoning religious activities? My wife claims to have (siddhi)powers of sight and while I act & believe in the spirit realms/deva realms I don’t know enough about it to live as if i’m interacting with it?

As long as one cannot perceive the other realms as real there is no need to force oneself to offer something. But you could train it, just a little offer every day, offered with compassion.

3.Is it a good idea to create a bhavana(?)/meditation that is something like “is what i’m doing right now something I want to happen again and again?” according to pati-icca samu-upada?

This is what we have to do. We cultivate our gathi in a way that there is no future bhava. This gathi is cultivated by understanding the true nature of this world. In this way one will lose all attachments. You do it with anapana and satipattana every day. You should do it in stting meditation as well as in daily activities. It need an effort or better it needs the satara iddhipada.

4.Is it a good idea to generate energy focusing on creating a gathi-character that “meditates often” despite the nuance of supramundane/mundane objects. and…
Is it a generally good idea to think of “creating a gathi” as a kind of useful tool in general, with the thought of ‘future’ jati and other births in mind? For instance with my worldly concerns it could be something like “I’m shifting my gathi to helping people with x-problem and by using -x solution as a gifts to my future births”???

Same as in #3 above. The habit of meditation brings a calm mind which can lose attachments easier. If you follow the 8fold path there is no need to cultivate another “rescuer-bhava”, instead you should cultivate Samadhi towards Nibbana, hence a bhava that drifts to total release. Maybe you should read (again) the Bhavana section on Lals website. I do not know which of the five hindrances (pancanivarana) is blocking you most. It only feels like thina middha and vicikicca. I really do not want to offend you in any way. Excuse me, if you feel uneasy because of anything I write.

[Tobias G]

There is a contradiction to the post Does the First Noble Truth Describe only Suffering?, where it is said:

In the first part it says, “jathi pi dukkha, jara pi dukkha, vyadhi’pi dukkha, maranan pi dukkha…….”. Most people translate this incorrectly as, “birth is suffering, getting old is suffering, sickness is suffering, death is suffering”.

Does one suffer when a baby is born to the family? Do we not celebrate births (of loved ones), and even celebrate birthdays? So it is incorrect to interpret “jathi pi dukkha” literally as “birth is suffering”.

But in the post Essence of Buddhism – In the First Sutta it is said:

jātipi dukkhā, jarāpi dukkhā, byādhipi dukkho, maraṇampi dukkhāṃ, appiyehi sampayogo dukkho, piyehi vippayogo dukkho, yampicchaṃ na labhati tampi dukkhāṃ—saṃkhittena pañcu­pādā­nak­khan­dhā dukkhā.

Translated: Bhikkhus, What is the Noble Truth of Suffering?

“Birth is suffering, getting old is suffering, getting sick is suffering, dying is suffering. …”

…We may not remember, but birth is a traumatic event, just like the dying moment. Coming out of the birth canal is a traumatic event for both the mother and the baby.

Thus my question: “birth is suffering” or “birth of something not liked is suffering”?

[Tobias G]

How do you understand the “love”-thing he is talking about?
Also this “…we are here in the soul school … you have nothing to fear…you are a devine creature”

[Tobias G]

No contradiction, just for my understanding. Thank you!

[Author]

Posts