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Please see manual of Bhikkhu Bodhi, page 179:
Analysis by way of individuals (ahetuka/duhetuka, guide to § 24)“…nor can such beings attain absorption either by way of jhanas or the path …”
Is this another option to distinguish between ahetuka/duhetuka and tihetuka patisandhi? But what is here “absorption”? Samadhi can be of many kinds.
@ Lang: sometimes a line of a favorite song comes to my mind door. But after a short moment I notice that my mind starts to sing along in silence. If I do not stop there I start singing aloud.
Lal, I think that is the solution as explained in the manual: “... its function then is to advert to the object appearing at the mind door. ...”
Based on that mind door input the mind has to deside how to react. The difference to the pancadvara resultant cittas is that the mind door adverting citta is only functional (not kusala/not akusala).
The process is explained on page 163 in the Bhikkhu Bodhi manual.
Yes, Lang. Every thought that just comes to the mind “out of the blue” is such a dhammā. The mind must come into contact with the outside world to start the thought process …then sanna, vedana, sankhara, vinnana follow or many more citta vithi. The mind never acts based on nothing/no input.
I had a look on page 43 of the manual. I guess for the mind door input it is No. 17 manodvaravajjanacitta, or right column (29) – mind door adverting citta.
This is active in a pancadvara event as well as a mind door event (two functions). See guide to §10.Where does this idea of censoring some versions of Buddha Dhamma come from?
Who is behind the proposal? Is Sutta Central involved or a group in Sri Lanka?The text at CEYLON TODAY was published on May 21 2021. Is that still a draft?
In #1 of the updated post on akusala mula PS it is said:
“One is born in the remaining “good realms” or sugati (and also experience mundane sense pleasures) due to good gati due to alobha, adosa, amoha. The kusala-mula PS operates when actions, speech, and thoughts occur with these three root causes..”But punna abhisankhara are part of akusala muala PS as long as there is avijja (“not knowing/understanding the four noble truths”). That is explained in Vb 6 as “kusalā cetanā kāmāvacarā rūpāvacarā dānamayā sīlamayā bhāvanāmayā”. So it means the good roots of alobha, adosa, amoha still keep one bound to samsara as long as there is avijja.
Punnabhisankhara become kusala only with understanding of the four noble truths.Please see Dhp 372
Natthi jhānaṁ apaññassa,
paññā natthi ajhāyato;
Yamhi jhānañca paññā ca,
sa ve nibbānasantike.Does this verse say that jhana is needed to gain wisdom?
Ok, understood. Namarupa does not mean pancakkandha. As seen in Vb 6 it is really rupa not the imprint of rupa as in rupakkandha.
Can you explain what is meant with this part of akusala mula PS:
“Tattha katamo upādānapaccayā bhavo? Bhavo duvidhena— atthi kammabhavo, atthi upapattibhavo. Tattha katamo kammabhavo? Puññābhisaṅkhāro, apuññābhisaṅkhāro, āneñjābhisaṅkhāro— ayaṁ vuccati “kammabhavo”. Sabbampi bhavagāmikammaṁ kammabhavo.
Tattha katamo upapattibhavo? Kāmabhavo, rūpabhavo, arūpabhavo, saññābhavo, asaññābhavo, nevasaññānāsaññābhavo, ekavokārabhavo, catuvokārabhavo, pañcavokārabhavo— ayaṁ vuccati “upapattibhavo”. Ayaṁ vuccati “upādānapaccayā bhavo”.”
This PS step is twofold: kammabhavo and upapattibhavo. Is this the link to your last posts of kamma generation?
Lal, you did not answer my questions. Is there a PS for “getting a glass of water from the kitchen”? Why shall this be the wrong way of looking? That is a question many people will have when looking deeper into the matter. You said in the post Idappaccayātā PS that even to build up a citta requires 16 super fast PS cycles. I think also Waharaka Thero said all in this nature happens based on PS.
Of course we have a vipaka kaya and some vipaka will happen to us during life. But we have to live that life and to act which is again based on PS. Is this PS not described in Abhidhamma?
Regarding namarupa: Vb6 explains the generation of namarupa as “Tattha katamaṁ viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṁ? Atthi nāmaṁ, atthi rūpaṁ. Tattha katamaṁ nāmaṁ? Vedanākkhandho, saññākkhandho, saṅkhārakkhandho— idaṁ vuccati “nāmaṁ”. Tattha katamaṁ rūpaṁ? Cattāro mahābhūtā, catunnañca mahābhūtānaṁ upādāyarūpaṁ— idaṁ vuccati “rūpaṁ”. Iti idañca nāmaṁ, idañca rūpaṁ.”
That means pancakkandha. When one builds vinnana for a future activity that will be stored in pancakkandha or namarupa (as mind made image). The mind will recall this image from pancakkandha later and act upon again. That is how a being moves forward from one jati to another jati even during life. We fall from one situation into another and perceive this as continuous life.
If we talk about the transition to a new bhava at patisandhi the new bhava is grasped at the step upadana paccaya bhavo. Vb 6 states:
“Tattha katamo upādānapaccayā bhavo? Bhavo duvidhena— atthi kammabhavo, atthi upapattibhavo. Tattha katamo kammabhavo? Puññābhisaṅkhāro, apuññābhisaṅkhāro, āneñjābhisaṅkhāro— ayaṁ vuccati “kammabhavo”. Sabbampi bhavagāmikammaṁ kammabhavo.Tattha katamo upapattibhavo? Kāmabhavo, rūpabhavo, arūpabhavo, saññābhavo, asaññābhavo, nevasaññānāsaññābhavo, ekavokārabhavo, catuvokārabhavo, pañcavokārabhavo— ayaṁ vuccati “upapattibhavo”. Ayaṁ vuccati “upādānapaccayā bhavo”.”
Ok, understood. More questions:
Everything in this world is created with PS processes. What is the PS for “getting a glass of water from the kitchen”? For that to happen the person will get the urge to have a glass of water. That requires a sense input. The mind will stick to that idea and act upon. Which PS?
What is namarupa? Is it gati or just mind made ideas, concepts, plans? That was my last point above: Kamma is energy created via sankhara and stored in the mental plane, so it is namarupa? Kamma seems to be apart from citta, cetasika and rupa. But in the ultimate reality that cannot be.
This question about namarupa is linked to pati+iccha. What one likes/dislikes is stored as namarupa, so it is memory or namagotta?
Vb6 explains it that way: “Tattha katamaṁ viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṁ? Atthi nāmaṁ, atthi rūpaṁ. Tattha katamaṁ nāmaṁ? Vedanākkhandho, saññākkhandho, saṅkhārakkhandho— idaṁ vuccati “nāmaṁ”. Tattha katamaṁ rūpaṁ? Cattāro mahābhūtā, catunnañca mahābhūtānaṁ upādāyarūpaṁ— idaṁ vuccati “rūpaṁ”. Iti idañca nāmaṁ, idañca rūpaṁ.”The akusala mula PS works only for abhisankhara (punna/apunna..). Thus is namarupa just pancaupadanakkandha?
Is there a difference between namarupa and dhamma and pancakkandha?
See also post on Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs
“4. But in a jhāna samāpatti, a single manōdvāra citta vīthi goes on uninterrupted for long times, with javana citta arising unceasingly :
B B B B B “BC BU MD J J J J J J J J J J J ………..
Thus there is no way to get back to the bhavaṅga state, or for a pañcadvāra citta vīthi or another manōdvāra citta vīthi to arise, and one becomes unaware of what happens in the outside world. Before getting into the samāpatti, one makes a determination on how long to stay in the samāpatti.
This is why the real power of javana citta can be truly displayed by people who can get into jhāna samāpatti. …”See also post on Javana of a Citta – The Root of Mental Power
#1: “..Such javana cittā are responsible for abhisaṅkhāra, those saṅkhāra that are potent and will lead to (good or bad) consequences. Punnabhisaṅkhāra are the meritorious abhisaṅkhāra that will lead to good results, and apuññābhisaṅkhāra are the immoral abhisaṅkhāra that lead to adverse outcomes. ..”
