Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi @Yash RS.
Recently I had little breakthrough on the subject.
We try to escape from dukkhā using sensuality of five senses, of different forms and shapes.
BUT, because all this experiences are unsatisfactory, when we pursue them, it is like pursuing Mirage.
(Trying to achieve something which is not there. This is hard to see, but, think about this matter yourself, if kama gave complete satisfaction, would you ever need to pursue them ever again?)
Sensuality is very intricate trap.
Beings are caught in it because of momentary pleasure. BUT, sensuality is like hamster wheel.
The chase will never end.
No doubt they provide very momentary escape from dukkhā of any type of existence.
BUT, that is what is exactly wrong with it.
They provide momentary relief from dukkhā.
But, because they make you dissatisfied in immediate future, you again have to chase it.
There is no end to it.
No matter how much water you put into box, it won’t be fulfilled, box has permanent unfixable hole at bottom. (Box is insatiable senses.)
====
Some deep conclusions:
It is not just momentary dukha vēdanā, whole existence is filled with DUKKHĀ.
All Dukkhā is symptom of jati.
Thing about symptoms is that you have to keep taking medicine in order to keep them away, but, if you stop taking medicine for while, they will come back.
On the other hand, if you cure disease, all symptoms will disappear on their own in some time.
Jati is disease.
Dukkhā of saṁsāra cannot be eliminated with anything of saṁsāra.
About sensuality,
All one has to do is make sure 100% that one is sottapana, everything else is bound to happen automatically. Not saying we stop putting forth any further efforts.
But, what sottapana has seen is impossible to not see, he knows deep down all of above.
Sensuality is bound to fall away like leaf, even though it might be hard.
I have personally seen much reduction in sensual urges.
It is possible to be free from them, because they are not completely satisfactory, if they were completely satisfactory, we could not escape it and there would be no reason to do so, but, because they are not completely satisfactory and Drawbacks are apparant, escape is possible.
Thank you lal.
Lal said,
The “ultimate two supersets” I commented on may not be what you had in mind. I was also thinking about whether that approach could be “too deep” for beginners. Please proceed the way you planned.
True. Not really useful to share the document with absolute beginners.
I really created the document for use of ariyas for their quick reference to various concepts, firstly for their own contemplation, secondly at the time of teaching someone, they can teach 4NT using document in various ways.
Thank you for sharing th chart, Lal.
I was working on document, which might be relevant to what you want to do.
It is not yet complete or finalized.
There is lot of improvement that can be done, content wise, in that table “loka and nibbanā”.
Core purpose of document was to distinguish worldviews of “Loka/anariya/saṁsāra and lokottara/ariya/nibbanā”.
Be careful when dealing with Buddha Dhamma. It needs to be handled with respect. The Budha compared learning Dhamma to “handling a snake.” If handled in the wrong way, it can lead to bad consequences. I know you didn’t mean it. Don’t worry about it.
I will keep this in mind.
Lal said,
It is for your benefit to understand the connection. That is why I gave the links. Don’t make dismissive statements without looking into issues.
Okay. I apologise if my statement came that way, lal. I didn’t mean it.
I will try to study NamaRupa section in key dhammā concept section before making further comments.
Dosakkhayo wrote,
It is a question asking ‘the degree of sufficiency in learning Dhamma’ and ‘validity of the approach to Dhamma,’ so I think it is something that lal can say enough.
Dosakkhayo, can you clarify a bit about what you mean here?
Lal said,
Why not?
Okay.
It was just that, I couldn’t see the connections between sakkāya diṭṭhi and NamaRupa discussion and also, between previous life progress and this discussion. Nothing else.
Lal, Have you read the treatise in original sinhala language?
I think it might have less errors, as during English translation due to lack of precise lexicon, approximate incomplete meanings are given to various words in sinhala.
Also, “yoniso manisikara” translated as “radical attention”.
This is quotations from English translation of “law of dependent arising” digital library edition, page. 49,
Whatever pertains to the ‘abhisaṅkhata-viññāṇa’ comes to cease in that all lustrous consciousness (sabbatopabha-viññāṇa). When light comes from all directions, consciousness becomes non-manifestative (‘viññāṇaṁ anidassanaṁ anantaṁ sabbatopabhaṁ’).
On page 48, in same book there is mention of ‘abhisaṅkhata-viññāṇa’
All in all I want to say that this book is heavily cited with Pali tipitaka, everything author says is backed up with sutta reference.
But, It is very difficult to understand what author wants to communicate.
I will keep commenting on book as I progress.
Jorg said,
Do you know whether the author has talked about the namarupa formation in vinnana via javana citta?
Not sure. In initial 150 pages, I haven’t encountered formation via javana citta. Perhaps in latter part of book, which I have only skimmed through thus far.
so I presume he doesn’t distinguish then between vinnana and kamma vinnana and/or sankhara and abhisankhara. Have you come across anything?
So far upto 150 pages, there is no differentiation.
It is possible that this is faulty English translation. Author might have not intended the meanings written in English translations in his original sinhala treatise.
UPDATE: I performed a quick search author differentiates between saṅkhāra and abhisaṅkhāra, also, viññāṇa is called defiled consciousness in latter part of book.
Lal said,
Yes. Understanding “namarupa formation” is the most critical issue.
Okay, I will keep that in mind and will try my best to learn NamaRupa at deeper level.
I have basic understanding of the process right now, certainly not at abhidhamma level.
Lal said,
Understanding that with an Abhidhamma analysis is ONE WAY to eliminate sakkaya ditthi.
Our efforts to attain Nibbana may have started a long time ago in the rebirth process, and some may have made significant progress in the past.
Lal, I am not sure why you mentioned both of this.
He mentions reference to it in that book,
this reference is in DN15: Maha Nidana Sutta.This is quotation from DN15:
there were none of the features, attributes, signs, and details by which the categories of mental or physical phenomena are found. Would either linguistic contact or impingement contact still be found?”
“Yehi, ānanda, ākārehi …pe… yehi uddesehi nāmakāyassa ca rūpakāyassa ca paññatti hoti, tesu ākāresu …pe… tesu uddesesu asati api nu kho adhivacanasamphasso vā paṭighasamphasso vā paññāyethā”ti?
Hi, Jorg.
Yes, reply from “y not” is correct.
Big square = empty because both nirāmisa vedanā and samphassa-jā-vedanā are mind made, they originates in mind. Hence, those three types of nirāmisa and three types of samphassa-jā-vēdanā belongs to dhammā indriya only.
Up and down arrows in bhava section denotes range of indriya.
In kama loka = all vēdanā are possible in kama loka, as all senses are available.
In Rupa loka = only eye, ear and dhammā indriya available, hence, number of vedanā reduced.
Again in Arupa loka = only dhammā indriya is there.
Also, all vipakā vedanā except those originating from body/touch are strictly neutral in beginning. However, vipakā vedanā originating from body might be of three types: sukha (pleasent; example: experiencing cool winds in summer), dukha (unpleasant; Example: Experiencing heat in summer, having bodily illness of various types), adukha adukha vedanā (neutral; example. Just seating on chair for some short time.).
Hence, the up down arrows under vipakā vedanā.
Please comment if you have any further questions.
Good update, lal.
You said,
What is “previously unheard” is that craving (icchā) for sensory attractions leads to suffering in the future.
As per my understanding so far,
This is “THE” biggest irony of existence.In pursuit of sensual pleasures whole heartedly, one gets suffering filled birth in future.
Ironically however, in future birth, it is for escaping from this suffering one again pursues sensual pleasures, which again leads to one’s own downfall.
ONE DIGS ONE’S OWN GRAVE,
by pursuit of kama.Without omniscient perfectly self aware buddha, it is impossible to see this process of “wheeling around” and cut it down.
Without buddha none can discern an nissarana from kama, higher than Arūpa jhana.
Extremely Brilliant insight,
Core of dhamma.One way I think about saṅkhāra dukkhā is that,
Because of Aniccā nature of all saṅkhata,
We always have to engage in doing saṅkhāra of various types until PARINIBBANA.
Now, when we do saṅkhāra for saṅkhata with Aniccā nature,
They keep changing, so we have to kee putting efforts without any end in sight.
If saṅkhata worked as per iccha/will/desire/wish,
There would be no need to keep doing saṅkhāra.But, because they don’t,
We have saṅkhāra dukkhā.Another aspect doing saṅkhāra for any saṅkhāra is like embracing feces.
Because they do not ever lead to anything substantial.
Another aspect,
Despite putting in even unlimited amounts of effort for Anything in this world,
It inevitably is lost, decayed, perished.So, doing saṅkhāra for saṅkhata with viparinama nature makes no logical sense.
This is how I understand saṅkhāra and viparinama dukkhā.
