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Under #7 above, I stated: “.. (But even if we don’t realize it, multiple fast images are needed to get a “full picture” of the tree with saccadic eye movements; i.e., several such “snapshots” combine to give the image of the tree. )Thus, the tree is recognized with vedanākkhandha and saññākkhandha…
The following post explains that: “Vision Is a Series of “Snapshots” – Movie Analogy.” (especially #6)
TGS wrote:
“#2.
In post #40386
It mentions that “namagotta are NOT rupakkhandha”.
- I just read that comment. I did not see that statement there.
I think the following explanation may answer the above questions. I am putting my thoughts together for a new post, so this may be a good time to see whether I need to add more to the following:
How Memories Are Recorded in Viññāṇa Dhātu
7. We can get a good idea of how memories are recorded in viññāṇa dhātu by understanding what it means to “see a rupa.” When you see a tree, only a “snapshot” of that tree is processed by the brain and sent to the hadaya vatthu (via cakkhu pasada rupa.) The registration of that image in mind is vedanā, and recognition of that image as a tree is saññā. (But even if we don’t realize it, multiple fast images are needed to get a “full picture” of the tree with saccadic eye movements; i.e., several such “snapshots” combine to give the image of the tree. )Thus, the tree is recognized with vedanākkhandha and saññākkhandha. If no further “mind actions” take place, that vedanākkhandha and saññākkhandha are all that is recorded in viññāṇa dhātu. But that also includes saṅkhārakkhandha since vedanā/saññā are mano saṅkhāra!- The point is that only the three aggregates of vedanā, saññā, and saṅkhāra recorded in viññāṇa dhātu define that rupa (the image of the tree.) Note that viññāṇakkhandha, in this case, comprises only vedanākkhandha, saññākkhandha, and saṅkhārakkhandha (with only mano saṅkhāra.) Hopefully, you can confirm that the rupakkhandha is “all mental” and is defined by only the four mental aggregates (but only the first three are enough.) Thus, in this case, namagotta is enough to define rupakkhandha.
- Again, to emphasize: what is preserved is vedanākkhandha, saññākkhandha, and saṅkhārakkhandha. But it contains all the necessary information to re-create a “mental image” of the rupa that was seen, i.e., the rupakkhandha.
8. Now, suppose instead of a tree, you see an attractive person, and lust arises in you. In this case, cetanā becomes sañcetanā (including kāma rāga) and is now more than a “seeing event.” Now a “kamma viññāṇa” arises, and that involves abhisankhara. Therefore, drastic changes take place in both saṅkhārakkhandha and viññāṇakkhandha. Thus, the namagotta now has an associated kammic energy!
- Thus, now a memory of seeing that person is in viññāṇa dhātu, but, in addition, there is also an associated kamma bija, i.e., it is now a dhammā!
Viññāṇa Dhātu includes Records With and Without Kammic Energy
9. Therefore, memory records may or may not have associated kammic energy. Each sensory experience and our response to them are included in nāmagotta (all vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāna associated with every experience AND response). Some had embedded kammic energy when abhisaṅkhāra was involved, i.e., when kamma viññāna was involved. Those latter kinds are nāmagotta with energy, i.e., dhammā.
If there are questions, please quote from the above and ask questions so that I can see what more needs to be added.
“However, with all due respect to you, this is not exactly the Waharaka Dhamma. Firstly she does not touch on Anicca, Dukha or Anatta.”
She was well under ten years old!
- It is not the words that matter. At her age, she had a better understanding of the world than her parents.
- She could be a Jati Sotapanna. If so, her full understanding will surface as she gets older.
- I have not seen any recent videos. I think her parents are wise to “shield her” until she gets a good education.
1. “Atita rupa” are mental impressions of the rupa experienced. A record of them remains intact in the vinnana dhatu as “namagotta.”
- “Paccuppana rupa” are those being experienced; they become “atita rupa” instantaneously.
- “Anagata rupa” are mental impressions of types of rupa expected to be experienced in the future.
2. “Cittaja rupa” are somewhat different. They are “rupa (energy)” created by javana citta. Of course, they become part of “namagotta” (and rupakkhandha) too.
- Not all cittas contribute to cittaja rupa, only javana citta contribute. All citta contribute to namagotta/rupakkhandha.
- Part of “cittaja rupa” gets deposited in the vinnana dhatu as “namagotta with kammic energy.” They can bring vipaka in the future.
- The rest of the energy in “cittaja rupa” is released at the “suddhatthaka stage” and can lead to changes in one’s body (for example, contribute to change in facial expression when getting mad) or may contribute to the growth of plants, trees, etc. That is a complex subject. When cultivating “Metta Bhavana.” these cittaja energies can affect other living beings too.
- Note: “cittaja” (“citta” + “ja”) means “created by citta.” Cittaja energies are vastly amplified after comprehending 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana.
- Note: Cittaja energies are vastly amplified to the “apayagami side” with higher levels of miccha ditthi, lobha, dosa, moha, etc.
3. It is good to contemplate the above deeply. That is part of the actual vipassana meditation!
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The following are some examples of “anāgata (future) rupa.”
1. Suppose person X plans to visit a friend in a nearby city next week. He could visualize how he would travel by car, meet his friend, and have a good time. But the day before his travel, he may be forced to abandon his trip due to a flooding of the highway, a broken bridge connecting the two cities, etc. That is an example without abhisankhara. It could have happened to an Arahant too.
2. In the case of Angulimala, his future would have indicated being born in an apaya upon his death. But the day he met the Buddha, that changed dramatically. Later that day, it would have indicated being born in a “good realm.” Two weeks later, upon attaining the Arahanthood, his future would have indicated not being born in any realm upon death!
3. Trillions of years ago, Buddha Deepankara gave “niyata vivarana” to then Bodhisatta. Buddha Deepankara told the Bodhisatta not only that he will become a Buddha at such a time in the future. Buddha Deepankara told him that he will be born to King Sudddhodana and Queen Mahamaya, be given the name Siddhartha, etc. Our Bodhisatta’s future had been pretty much “fixed” even that far back.
It is good to think about such examples. That is part of “insight meditation.” Feel free to ask questions if any of the above is unclear or if anyone has other unclarified scenarios.
I am not discouraging questions. But think carefully (and write carefully) to make sure you get the point across. It helps to write and re-read what is written to make sure it conveys the idea.
1. “Lal said: anāgata (future) rupa are based on “rupa upadanakkhanda.”
- Try to understand the concepts. It is not possible to spell out everything in a post. An Arahant does not have lobha, dosa, or moha in mind. Thus, there are no abhisankhara generated. But an Arahant still makes plans for the future. He may need to plan going out for alms, may need to go and visit someone, etc.
- This is similar to an Arahant still generating vinnana. Such vinnana may have expectations, but not based on lobha, dosa, or moha in mind.
2. “Then, anāgata rupa is made of apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo?”
- All types of rupadanakkhanda are mental. Please re-read the post and relevant posts.
Thank you, Lang!
- I revised your post to make some sentences bold, etc. Just select the sentence first and then click “bold (B)” to make the sentence bold. Same to make it to italics (with selection of “I” in the formatting bar, AFTER selecting the sentence.)
- The following post could be helpful in formatting a comment: “Formatting a Post“
Regarding the translation of “anicca,” the following section could be helpful too. Since we have not discussed it recently, many people may not be aware of it: “Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta“
1. OK. It is possible that a Sotapanna would have removed “Issa.” It is not an akusala by itself. It is an “occasional asobhana cetasika” that can arise in an akusala citta.
- I wrote that post some years back, so I need to check how I made that Table. I will check on it and comment here later on.
- But it is good to keep in mind that a Sōtapanna has entirely removed only one of the dasa akusala, that of wrong views. All other akusala would be weakened so that a Sotapanna is incapable of “apāyagāmi actions.”
4. The problem starts with a mistranslation of the verse “sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā ti” as: “All saṅkhāras are impermanent.”
- Anicca DOES NOT mean just impermanence. This an excellent example of why one MUST have the fundamentals right.
- The bolded sentence you quoted, “A blind reaction of the mind is called saṅkhāra, but the result of that action, its fruit, is also known as saṅkhāra; like seed, like fruit,” is wrong too. The correct sentence would be”An unwise reaction of the mind is called saṅkhāra, but the result of that action, its fruit, is a saṅkhata; like the seed, like fruit.”
- Thus, our physical body is a saṅkhata. It is a result of past kamma done with a puññābhisaṅkhāra (puñña abhisaṅkhāra).
- Saṅkhāra is mental, not material. I think you pointed that out in your essay.
1. The following paragraph is not quite right (p. 12): “Example: if one believes one is a Sōtapanna, but noticed one of his thoughts was slightly, just slightly tainted with jealousy, even just a fraction of a second, that means one is not a Sōtapanna. Perhaps a Sōtapanna Anugāmi, but not a Sōtapanna.”
A Sotapnna has removed only the WRONG VIEWS out of dasa akusala.
- However, that means not only the ten types of wrong views but also the wrong view about an “unchanging self/me” (like that of a “soul in many religions, and that of an atman in Hinduism. That means getting rid of “sakkaya ditthi.”
- That is an enormous accomplishment and is enough to avoid future rebirths in the apayas. That is because most “apayagami deeds” are done with the wrong views. See “Akusala Citta – How a Sotāpanna Avoids Apāyagāmi Citta.” I just noticed that I have not revised it at all. If anyone sees any revisions that are needed, please let me know.
- However, what Jorg describes on p. 15 about āsava/anusaya is correct.
- P.S. Therefore, a Sōtapanna’s thoughts COULD BE tainted with jealousy, but NEVER to the extent of leading to an apāyagāmi action. That is true for any of dasa akusala. A Sōtapanna has fully removed only one of the dasa akusala, that of wrong views.
2. I appreciate Jorg’s efforts to incorporate visuals. That is impactful.
3. On p. 18: “Ānāpāna and Satipaṭṭhāna both have the word “āna” inside which means “taking in.” Sequentially, “pāna” means to “expel.”
- It should be “Ānāpāna and Satipaṭṭhāna both have the word “āna” inside, which means “taking in.” Sequentially, “āpāna” means to “expel.”
- I, myself, may have written it the wrong way in an earlier post. If so, please let me know so I can correct it.
4. Then I jumped over to the “A deeper analysis of “sankharas” and Buddha Dhamma” on p. 80. The following sentence caught my eye: “Regarding Vipassana and “sankharas,” a question that remains is, “What are these
“sankharas” then in our physical bodies?”- The bolded part seems problematic. Are there any “sankharas” in our physical bodies? Did Goenka teach that?
- On p. 82, you write, “If “sankharas” are defilements that are stored in the body, that means they should belong to the rupa category.” If he taught that, his teachings would be much worse than I imagined!
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I only took a glance and then started reading “The Mind Processes” on p. 11; Jorg especially requested comments on this.
1. First, I am glad to see that Jorg has gained a good understanding. Some gaps need to be filled in.
- I think it is a good idea for everyone to read it and make comments/ ask questions. That is the best way to make progress.
2. On p. 11, the Figure is excellent. It visualizes the underlying process of “seeing an object.”
- The paragraph: “For example, your eyes make contact with a tree. It sends the “image” via electrical
signals to the brain (the visual cortex). The brain then sends a suitable form (rupa) to the pasāda
rupa. Then the pasāda rupa makes contact with the mind base (hadaya vatthu). This contact
results in vibration. This vibration leads to the arising of thought, feelings, and consciousness” may be written as follows: - “For example, your eyes make contact with a tree. The eyes send the “image” via electrical signals to the brain (the visual cortex). The brain processes that signal to a form that the mind can understand. That signal is transmitted to the cakkhu pasada rupa via the “fine body” of the gandhabba which is spread throughout the physical body. The cakkhu pasāda rupa contacts the mind base (hadaya vatthu), which results in the vibration of the hadaya vatthu 17 times, resulting in a citta vithi with 17 cittas. Cakkhu vinnana (CV) arises in the fourth citta of that citta vithi; see #3 of “Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs.”
3. The second Figure is a good visual representation of 17 cittas arising in succession.
- Note that all cittas arise in the MIND. Cakkhu vinnana (CV) has that name because the cakkhu pasada rupa gives rise to it. But that citta also arises in mind.
- Then the mind goes through more cittas with other functions.
- Further down in the text, Jorg describes “Tiṇṇaṁ saṅgati phasso.” That happens at the fifth citta, Sampaticchana (Receiving consciousness) in that citta vithi of 17 cittas. That is followed by the Santīrana (Investigating consciousness) citta, and then the Vottapana (Determining consciousness) arises.
- At the votthapana (V) citta, the mind decides on the appropriate action for that sensory input. Then those actions are launched with the subsequent seven javana citta. See the above-referenced post.
I will stop here for now. We can discuss any questions anyone may have regarding the above description.
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1. Paṭisambhidā Ñāna is a special status attained by very few Arahants. It encompasses four components:
(i) attha paṭisambhidā ñāṇa, (ii) dhamma paṭisambhidā ñāṇa, (iii) nirutti paṭisambhidā ñāṇa, (iv) paṭibhāna paṭisambhidā ñāṇa
It is described in “Paṭisambhidāmagga” (a Tipitaka Commentary): “Paṭisambhidāñāṇa niddesa.”
- Many other concepts require priority, and knowing what it means is not critical. That is why I have not got around to writing a post on it.
2. It may be cultivated, but usually, very few will have all four types to a high level. One must be an Arahant too.
- For example, the Buddha pointed out that Ven. Sariputta was such an Arahant: “Dutiyapaṭisambhidā Sutta (AN 7.39).”
3. Someone with that ñāṇa has a complete understanding of (i) what is attha/anattha: “Attha Sutta (AN 10.181),” (ii) what are dhamma/adhamma: “Dhamma Sutta (AN 10. 138)“, (iii) pada nirutti (how meanings of keywords come about, and (iv) can fully explain concepts in detail with examples, analogies, etc.
- Someone coming close to that status in recent times would be Waharaka Thero.
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You are welcome!
I have started a new series of posts to approach Buddha Dhamma systematically:
It could be useful since there are many sections on the website that “evolved” over time.
It is perfectly fine, DanielSt. We all should do what we can to spread the true teachings of the Buddha.
- Thank you for your efforts! Much merit to you and your family!
I listened to the beginning of it. I think it says exactly what I mentioned above.
1. Dukha (suffering) differs from Dukkha Sacca/Dukkha Ariya Sacca.
2. Average people think Dukkha Sacca is about “suffering,” meaning physical or mental suffering in this life. So, they believe one can get rid of such despair by “meditation.” They think “pleasurable activities” will give them long-term “pleasure.”
3. But the Buddha taught that those “pleasurable activities” are the “root cause of suffering” in the REBIRTH PROCESS. When we seek pleasure by engaging in such “pleasurable activities,” we inadvertently cultivate abhisankhara. That is “avijja paccaya sankhara” in the Paticca Samuppada process.
- See “Essence of Buddhism – In the First Sutta,” especially #10 there.
4. Please let me know if the discourses you mentioned say otherwise. I can listen to them tomorrow to make sure. Now it is my bedtime here!
