Anāgata Rupa

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    • #43937

      Where Are Memories “Stored”? – Connection to Pañcakkhandha


      “The category of anāgata (future) rupa is those we hope/expect to experience.”

      So, ‘rupa upadanakkhanda’ is anāgata rupa? If it is, does it apply to other things? (like vedana upadanakkhanda is anāgata vedana)

      If it right, then arahant has no anāgata rupa, vedana, sanna, sankara, vinnana.

    • #43940

      No, but they are related.

      We could say that anāgata (future) rupa are based on “rupa upadanakkhanda.”

      • An analogy: Someone spends time making a plan for a house (“rupa upadanakkhanda“) and ends up with a plan (blueprint). That blueprint is like anāgata (future) rupa. Of course, the blueprint will keep changing as that person keeps making new efforts with abhisankhara.
    • #43942

      Lal said: anāgata (future) rupa are based on “rupa upadanakkhanda.”

      So, if there is no rupa upadanakkhanda(i.e. the case of arahant), there can be no anāgata rupa.

      Then, anāgata rupa is made of apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo?

    • #43943

      1. “Lal said: anāgata (future) rupa are based on “rupa upadanakkhanda.”

      • Try to understand the concepts. It is not possible to spell out everything in a post. An Arahant does not have lobha, dosa, or moha in mind. Thus, there are no abhisankhara generated. But an Arahant still makes plans for the future. He may need to plan going out for alms, may need to go and visit someone, etc.
      • This is similar to an Arahant still generating vinnana. Such vinnana may have expectations, but not based on lobha, dosa, or moha in mind.

      2. “Then, anāgata rupa is made of apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo?”

      • All types of rupadanakkhanda are mental. Please re-read the post and relevant posts.
    • #43944

      OK. I got the point. I think I understand well. But the way I ask questions seems to confuse the conversation. I think it’s my fault because you pointed out the same problem last time.

      I devise questions to learn better. To maximize the effect of my question, though I already know that, I choose a position of not knowing any given concept. There are two reasons. One, it provides an opportunity for the teacher to reconstruct the explanation in a way I have never thought of before. Two, it gives me a chance to think carefully so that I don’t think I understand it too rashly.

      However, it is challenging for me to express this thought process in English. This is because these complex expressions of thought are complicated to write. Also, I am not familiar with English writing yet.

      Since I found this problem, I have started cutting back on asking a question in the forum. Recently, however, I thought that though I got it wrong, my skills would not improve if I didn’t keep asking questions. So I decided to ask a question for now. I’m not asking questions to make you tired. I’m sorry if you felt that way.

      Nevertheless, it is my responsibility. I will find a way to solve this problem anyway.

      +) I think this video can help you to understand my approach.

    • #43946

      I am not discouraging questions. But think carefully (and write carefully) to make sure you get the point across. It helps to write and re-read what is written to make sure it conveys the idea.


    • #43950

      The following are some examples of “anāgata (future) rupa.”

      1. Suppose person X plans to visit a friend in a nearby city next week. He could visualize how he would travel by car, meet his friend, and have a good time. But the day before his travel, he may be forced to abandon his trip due to a flooding of the highway, a broken bridge connecting the two cities, etc. That is an example without abhisankhara. It could have happened to an Arahant too.

      2. In the case of Angulimala, his future would have indicated being born in an apaya upon his death. But the day he met the Buddha, that changed dramatically. Later that day, it would have indicated being born in a “good realm.” Two weeks later, upon attaining the Arahanthood, his future would have indicated not being born in any realm upon death! 

      3. Trillions of years ago, Buddha Deepankara gave “niyata vivarana” to then Bodhisatta. Buddha Deepankara told the Bodhisatta not only that he will become a Buddha at such a time in the future. Buddha Deepankara told him that he will be born to King Sudddhodana and Queen Mahamaya, be given the name Siddhartha, etc. Our Bodhisatta’s future had been pretty much “fixed” even that far back. 

      It is good to think about such examples. That is part of “insight meditation.” Feel free to ask questions if any of the above is unclear or if anyone has other unclarified scenarios.

    • #43954

      Then, anagata rupa is not ‘in the future’, contrary to conventional understanding. But it is a mental expression ‘towards the future’. I got it.

      If I understand correctly, cittaja rupa is made of dhamma rupa(under the suddhāṭṭhaka stage). Atita rupakkhanda(namagotta) is the result of cittaja rupa. And paccuppanna, anagata rupakkhana is the contents of cittaja rupa. I would like to know more about the difference between cittaja rupa and rupakkhanda.

    • #43955

      1. “Atita rupa” are mental impressions of the rupa experienced. A record of them remains intact in the vinnana dhatu as “namagotta.”

      • Paccuppana rupa” are those being experienced; they become “atita rupa” instantaneously.
      • Anagata rupa” are mental impressions of types of rupa expected to be experienced in the future. 

      2. “Cittaja rupa” are somewhat different. They are “rupa (energy)” created by javana citta. Of course, they become part of “namagotta” (and rupakkhandha) too.

      • Not all cittas contribute to cittaja rupa, only javana citta contribute. All citta contribute to namagotta/rupakkhandha.
      • Part of “cittaja rupa” gets deposited in the vinnana dhatu as “namagotta with kammic energy.” They can bring vipaka in the future.
      • The rest of the energy in “cittaja rupa” is released at the “suddhatthaka stage” and can lead to changes in one’s body (for example, contribute to change in facial expression when getting mad) or may contribute to the growth of plants, trees, etc. That is a complex subject. When cultivating “Metta Bhavana.” these cittaja energies can affect other living beings too.
      • Note:cittaja” (“citta” + “ja”) means “created by citta.” Cittaja energies are vastly amplified after comprehending 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana.
      • Note: Cittaja energies are vastly amplified to the “apayagami side” with higher levels of miccha ditthi, lobha, dosa, moha, etc.

      3. It is good to contemplate the above deeply. That is part of the actual vipassana meditation!

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    • #43961

      Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu! It is really helpful to me. Thank you!!

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