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Lal,
You mentioned: The somanassa vedana is indeed produced by “samphassa with gati”. The gati in this case are not just with the Arahant, but anyone in human bhava. “Sweetness in sugar” is a “human gati”; see the post on Kama Guna. For the Arahant, that gathi will also go away at Parinibbana; it is there only as long as that last human body is alive.
Does this mean that the Buddha also had gati since He was in the human bhava in his last life? But as I seem to recall, you stated in another post that the Buddha did not have any defiled habits remaining, unlike an Arahant. Are gati also defiled habits?
Also, as I understand it, somanassa vedana are mind-made feelings or mentally fabricated feelings. Am I wrong? Why would an Arahant mentally fabricate feelings?
Thank you very much in advance for your answers to my questions.
Desire to enjoy sense pleasures, worldly success and fortune will inevitably hold some people back from learning and practising Buddhadhamma.
What I really wanted to stress was that these things should not be overly indulged in. If one strongly feels one is missing out, one can always remind oneself that there will probably be many future lives in which we have the opportunity to pursue these worldly things. For, after all, Nibbana is not easily achieved without much time and effort. It would probably take place over a span of at least many lifetimes.
What is critically important, now, though, is to embark on the Path. Over the course of innumerable aeons, I think, it is much, much rarer to make progress on the Path than to achieve these markings of worldly success, or to enjoy such sense pleasures.
Siebe,
I think I see fear, grasping and resistance in your posts.
In your posts, you are often seeking answers to confirm your hopes and expectations for a better future, while somehow trying to maintain the status quo, and resisting the need for major upheavals. These stem from deep within you, and seem very strong and persistent.
Perhaps on some level you are aware of, or suspect, how futile all this (your current approach) is, and you have begun to despair of ever finding the light.
Please continue to stay with us, and believe in us, or more specifically the Teachings of The Buddha.
The Buddha, I think, taught that there were three facets to tanha. All these stem from strong, perverted desires and will inevitably result in much suffering.
They are 1)desire for sense pleasures, 2)desire for existence (in any of the 31 realms), and 3) aversion. I think you are currently experiencing much aversion for the unsatisfactory aspects of life, while at the same time craving for sense pleasures and existences that will give you these pleasures. These are all manifestations of tanha. Perhaps you may be surprised that strong aversion is also a type of tanha, but it is.
The Buddha preached the Middle Way, and it is applicable in different ways. Try to approach your life circumstances with equanimity. It is easier said than done, I know, but we have to start somewhere.
When fortunate things happen to you, do not be overly elated. When unfortunate things happen to you, do not overly despair. Do not worry about the future, if you have done the best you could at the time. Whatever will be, will be. When planning for the well being of your future, do not be too concerned if your plans will come to fruition or not.
You may think it is not in your nature to think and act like that. But have you considered that through uncountable maha kalpas, we have been planning and striving and plotting and scheming (plotting and scheming in those lifetimes in which we were predominantly immoral) for our worldly self-benefit and it has all come to naught at the end of the lifetimes? What has inevitably followed us, however, has been our kamma, whether kusala, punna, akusala, or papa to bring fortune or misfortune upon us.
Since we have all lived for so long in uncountable rebirths and are likely to do so again in the future if we do not do something about it, let us leave all the striving, planning and dreaming to future lives. There are far more important things to be done for now, in this very life. For all of us have been emperors, empresses, rich men or women, and so on in the past and will probably continue to do so in the future, so there is really no need to worry so much about worldly success, fame or fortune. We do need to be able to delay our gratification though! :)
Since the world is highly seductive and has the anicca nature, non-Ariya human beings who have a lot of javana power in their sankaras are almost always being seduced and baited into committing immoral actions and inevitably spend most of their time in the apayas.
If what you are feeling is frightful enough, have you considered that things could be infinitely worse in Avici Hell and the other hells, as well as in the preta or asura realms or having the life of an animal with much uncertainty in their lives? Furthermore, it is very hard to get out of the apayas once we are drawn into them. Furthermore, even if we are fortunate enough to have the extremely rare chance of being born a human, it would still be extremely rare to encounter a Buddha Sasana, as there are maha kalpas where there is not even a Buddha to help us see the real nature of existence. When we think both our lives and deaths are very uncertain in the future, we begin to see how urgent it is to embark on the Path, to at least become a Sotapanna.
Many people feel tension, unhappiness, stress or emptiness in their lives, even when things are seemingly going smoothly for them. This is because of the cravings all of them have. I believe it is far more important to achieve peace and happiness than to be successful in worldly, material terms yet be miserable.
How can we start? Try to perform more dana, sila and bhavana. In terms of dana, practise giving with no expectations of getting anything in return. You could give of your money, possessions, time, moral support, smiles, advice, etc. Refrain from committing immoral acts and do more moral acts; learn more Buddhadhamma and practise accordingly. Gradually, more happiness will start to creep into our lives if we persist for some time.
I have often wondered what it would feel like to be an Arahant or Buddha. For the Buddha, He had achieved all that was Noble and there was ‘nothing else to be done’. Such states are extremely wonderful. Perhaps you could imagine: If you had achieved everything that was worthwhile to be done and there was nothing else you needed to do, how would you feel? Try to bring such a scenario to your mind and immerse yourself in that state or feeling for a while. Try to return to that state or feeling whenever you feel stressed or frightened.
Hope all this helps.
Hi Student,
As a student of academic psychology, I have learnt that our thoughts can influence our feelings, but our feelings can also influence our thoughts. If I am correct, Buddhism more or less explains things in much the same way too. In paticca samuppada (something like a cause-effect cycle, expounded by the Buddha), sankhara (which are thoughts and volitions) paccaya (give rise to under suitable conditions) vedana (which are feelings) through other links, and vedana can also paccaya sankhara through the same links in reverse order.
While Lal has given you some food for thought in a general sense and from a different perspective, Akvan seems to have approached your problem from the forward order of sankhara paccaya vedana (anicca and dukkha sanna) , while Tobias and y not seem to have suggested approaching your problem from either the forward order of sankhara paccaya vedana or the reverse order of vedana paccaya sankhara (I cannot tell which order metta bhavana falls under).
As for me, I will also try to help you with some ideas of my own (with help from Lal and The Buddha).
Think back to the times when your parents had shown their care and concern for you, even if in only small gestures or words. Surely there must have been times when you were touched by them? I would like you to reignite those memories and loving thoughts for your parents again and bring them to the forefront of your mind. You will need to suppress hateful thoughts with love. Once you have recalled those times, keep them in your memory and heart. Then think back to those times you might have got into an argument with your parents because you thought that they were incapable of understanding you. In the post ‘Kammattana (Recitations) for the Sotapanna Stage’, under #12, it is written ‘…If one had (even inadvertently) done a bad deed to someone that day, one could be thinking about that person and ask for forgiveness. This is a very effective way to calm the mind and reduce tensions… If done sincerely, one should be able to see the effects in real life. You may notice that the tensions with that person automatically reduced… What happens is that those strong javana citta that you generate can produce cittaja rupa that can affect that person even over long distances’.
Before you finally conclude that your parents are incapable of understanding you, perhaps have you examined any role that you may have had to play in this? For example, have you refused to let them into your world because you thought that they could not understand you? But if you do this, how can they even enter your world to understand you better? It is important to examine these things objectively and non-judgmentally, and not to let defensiveness and other negative emotions get in the way of an honest assessment, if you would like to see things more clearly as they are in reality.
I think the Buddha said that hatred cannot be conquered with hatred, but must be conquered with love. This can apply to non-enemies like family members you may feel friction with too. The Buddha also may have said that one solution to ease such hostile feelings is to give a gift to the other person(s) one is having problems with.
This gift could be a material gift or it could be in the form of a friendly and sincere help such as making coffee for them. Engage the othe person(s) in the gift-giving too. Ask them to reciprocate if they are willing to. If so, you will be able to experience the effects of gift-giving from both the perspective of the giver as well as the receiver.
What were your thoughts when you were giving the gifts? How did you feel after giving the gifts? How did you feel when you received any gifts? What thoughts did these feelings trigger in you? Ideally this internal reflection will activate both the forward and reverse processes of sankhara paccaya vedana as well as vedana paccaya sankhara. The combined results of both processes could be very strong, not to mention the myriad other effects this could spin off. For paticca samuppada is complex, and the more links there are, the more varied and possibly stronger the effects can be. Engage in performing helpful services or giving material gifts every day if possible. You may be amazed at the results one day.
One more thing: I think the merits of giving gifts depends on the receiver as well. Not many are more qualified to receive gifts to than our parents, who have enabled us to attain a human body which is an extremely hard result to obtain. Therefore, if I am not wrong, sincere gifts offered to our parents without any ulterior motives, while knowing that such acts will bear good fruits, are highly meritorious indeed.
Do let me know if you have engaged in any of the tips I have suggested, and if they have been effective over a period of time. I sincerely wish you all the best! :)
By the way, y not, you have to pardon me for replying only now. I was engaged in some work and attending to other matters before my reply. :)
Thank you very much Lal, Akvan and y not for your answers and contributions.
Akvan, I am very glad to see your reply to my question. You are one of the forum participants whose inputs I really value as it is always refreshingly useful and insightful. Of course, this is not forgetting the valuable contributions of Lal and Seng Kiat who are the keymaster and moderator respectively.
Lal, I agree that at least initially it is not possible to control what kind of cetasikas arise as the cittas arise so rapidly. However can kamma beeja be altered, or if not, at least have its effects modified by other kamma beeja?
For example, suppose I wish to sponsor the printing of Dhamma books for free distribution. Before the actual act, days in advance, I may wish simply to have the Dhamma books bring niramisa sukha to readers and eventually liberate them from samsara.
However, on the actual day itself, I may inadvertently start hoping that such an act will give rise to a future rebirth for me as a wealthy householder. Should I become aware of such a thought, I could immediately think of how worldy wealth in and of itself has anicca, dukkha and anatta nature if it binds one to the thirty-one realms, abandon the thought and think of thoughts of having all sentient beings being liberated from samsara. In the days after the act of giving, I may also sincerely wish for the benefit of all sentient beings.
In this way, can kamma beeja done at the very moment of an act have its effects modified by future and past kamma beeja, even if it is the kamma beeja grasped at the cuti-patisandhi moment?
Hi y not, at the moment I am merely using the ‘printing of Dhamma books for free distribution’ example as an illustration, though should the opportunity present itself, I may be inclined to actually do so in a manner convenient to me. I have also thought seriously about doing that before.
Also, it seems to me that inherent in namarupa are vedana, sanna and tanha as well, i.e. in namarupa, we have our feelings, perceptions and desires tied up with it. Am I wrong to think so?
Actually I did not really want to go too indepth with this just for the sake of knowledge. However, if this is a part of citta bhavana, which could be useful to me in my path, I would like to contemplate upon this further.
Thank you, Lal and Seng Kiat for your explanations.
I have read ‘Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Stages of a Thought’, as recommended by Seng Kiat.
Under point #8, it is written: ‘…It starts with the citta stage, which is the purest stage for a given person (it has only the seven universal cētasika, or mental factors). However, that is still inherently contaminated because the universal cētasika of saññā is already contaminated due to one’s avijjā. …That first citta stage is “pure” or “pabhassara” only for an Arahant.
Thus I think I understand that the pabhassara citta of an Arahant is not of anicca or dukkha nature, since it is not an abhisankhara and will not bring about future suffering-filled rebirths. Please correct me if I am wrong in this view.
I also notice something curious. In the pavutti PS or uppati PS, avijja, sankhara, vinnana, namarupa, salayatana, phassa paccaya each other in forward or reverse order. Could it be even more complex than that?
For example, phassa could occur first, when we see our mother at the first citta stage. Then sanna may take place at the mano and manasam stages, as we identify the sight object as a woman who is our mother.
Afterwards, namarupa could occur at the hadayam and pandaram stages, as we get attached to the object we perceive as our mother, and bring in our hopes and expectations for the future with her.
Then salayatana could occur at the mano manayatanam and mana indriyam stages as the mano indriya becomes an ayatana to that person, becoming receptive to further feelings of attachment.
Finally vinnana of course happens at the vinnana and vinnanakkhandha stages. Thus the order would seem to be like this instead: phassa paccaya namarupa, namarupa paccaya salayatana, salayatana paccaya vinnana. Am I right to think that this is another possible version of PS?
Thank you very much in advance for your answers to my questions!
Sorry for the mistake but I just recalled that amoha is not a cetasika. How then does one have amoha as a root of a meritorious action? Can someone who has not even attained magga and phala of a sotapanna be able to cultivate panna?
Thank you once again, Lal, y not and Tobias for your answers and contributions to this post.
Lal, your link to the discourses was very helpful. I have listened to two of the desanas and have benefitted greatly. Thank you very much!
y not:
I am glad that you do not have any problems with the ten micca ditthis. It also appears that essentially we accept the same views. That is great.
Thank you, Lal and y not for your answers.
y not: you wrote that ‘we can attain a deva or brahma bhava solely through our own efforts in opapatika ‘birth’ which requires no father and mother’ but for the extremely precious human bhava we require a father and a mother’.
I believe that we do not need a father and a mother to have a human bhava. A human bhava (existence) is grasped at the cuti-patisandhi moment at the cessation of the previous bhava, if the relevant conditions are present. No father and mother is needed at this point yet.
From then on, a human gandhaba arises and begins to wait for a suitable womb in order to have a human jati (birth). It is only when a suitable father and mother are present will the gandhaba be able to have a human jati by entering the mother’s womb.
The difference in human and animal bhavas and jatis can be explained by the presence of gandhabas. Since the beliefs in gandhabas and paralowas are crucial in eliminating one of the ten micca ditthis, I thought it perhaps important that I point this out.
What do you think, y not?
Hi inflib,
You can look at the post: Kanha (Dark) and Sukka (Bright) Kamma and Kammakkhaya
Hope this helps!
