August 27, 2018 at 12:18 am #17973
As far as I understand it, only tihetuka persons can attain magga phala when they comprehend Tilakkhana. Dvihetuka and ahetuka persons would not be able to comprehend Tilakkhana for the duration of their human bhava (please pardon me for any incorrect spellings).
Since it is so important to become a tihetuka person in order to progress further along the path, how can one perform tihetuka kamma instead of dvihetuka or ahetuka kamma when one performs meritorious actions?
For example, if one is donating money to charitable organisations, one can do so without expecting anything in return (alobha). One can also sincerely wish for the benefits of the needy when they receive financial aid from these organisations (adosa). But how can one cultivate the amoha cetasika in such a case? Or will one automatically have amoha when one is performing a meritorious action with alobha and adosa?
In the case of sponsoring the printing of Dhamma books for free distribution, would one automatically have alobha, adosa and amoha if one does this without any desire for worldly gains such as money, fame and power, and sincerely wishes that all readers be delivered from sansara?
Thank you very much in advance for your answers to my questions!
August 27, 2018 at 12:50 am #17974
Sorry for the mistake but I just recalled that amoha is not a cetasika. How then does one have amoha as a root of a meritorious action? Can someone who has not even attained magga and phala of a sotapanna be able to cultivate panna?
August 27, 2018 at 1:51 am #17976y notParticipant
I just woke up and the brain wheels are still clogged. I will get to your question(s) after my coffees.
For now I cannot resist commenting on the ‘sponsoring the printing of Dhamma books for free distribution’ Could it be that you may be serious about this, not just using the idea as an illustration in your question ? !! I had the idea before myself. I wonder how many others have. I recall Inflib (Donna) on one occasion offered to support the site financially (Lal of course declined)
August 27, 2018 at 7:26 am #17978LalKeymaster
firewns said:”For example, if one is donating money to charitable organisations, one can do so without expecting anything in return (alobha). One can also sincerely wish for the benefits of the needy when they receive financial aid from these organisations (adosa). But how can one cultivate the amoha cetasika in such a case?”
This is related to your question on another forum here on the arising of cetasika (sankhara) automatically within a split second.
At least initially, it is not possible to control what kinds of cetasika arise when our attention is grabbed by an external sense input.
One CAN and SHOULD deviate the mind from such “unwise” cetasika when one becomes aware of them (that is Anapana or Satipatthana). For example, if one gets the craving to eat a piece of cake that looks delicious, one could suppress such thoughts by thinking about bad consequences of eating too many pieces of cake. Of course, one can eat such things in moderation.
The point is that as one sticks to being mindful, many such spontaneous reactions will reduce with time. That is cultivating panna in one sense.
However, a huge change will happen when one starts comprehending the unfruitful nature of sense attractions (anicca, dukkha,anatta,asubha nature), and that some of them can be outright dangerous. That is when one really cultivates panna.
But it is hard to pin point when that “jump” will happen. One should just keep at it by “being mindful” AND also keep learning Dhamma and contemplating on those concepts.
Another way to say that is to say that panna will grow as one gets rid of bad gati and cultivates good gati.
August 27, 2018 at 10:32 pm #17990AkvanParticipant
The most beneficial way to carry out a meritorious deed is to hope that the good punna kamma of the deed help one (and all beings) attain nibbana.
For example if one is donating money he can think in the following manner. May this good deed help those that receive this donation live well and ultimately understand the dhamma (attain nibbana), and help me and all other beings understand the dhamma and attain nibbana.
The important point here is what we wish for when doing the meritorious deed. Wishing that whatever the meritorious deed to help me and all beings attain nibbana is the most beneficial.
As for thrihetuka births, one may never know if he has a thrihetuka birth (unless he knows that he has attained a magga pala). So the only way I see is to keep striving to understand the dhamma and keep doing meritorious deeds (as mentioned above).
August 28, 2018 at 12:56 am #17993
Hi y not, at the moment I am merely using the ‘printing of Dhamma books for free distribution’ example as an illustration, though should the opportunity present itself, I may be inclined to actually do so in a manner convenient to me. I have also thought seriously about doing that before.
August 28, 2018 at 1:24 am #17994
Thank you very much Lal, Akvan and y not for your answers and contributions.
Akvan, I am very glad to see your reply to my question. You are one of the forum participants whose inputs I really value as it is always refreshingly useful and insightful. Of course, this is not forgetting the valuable contributions of Lal and Seng Kiat who are the keymaster and moderator respectively.
Lal, I agree that at least initially it is not possible to control what kind of cetasikas arise as the cittas arise so rapidly. However can kamma beeja be altered, or if not, at least have its effects modified by other kamma beeja?
For example, suppose I wish to sponsor the printing of Dhamma books for free distribution. Before the actual act, days in advance, I may wish simply to have the Dhamma books bring niramisa sukha to readers and eventually liberate them from samsara.
However, on the actual day itself, I may inadvertently start hoping that such an act will give rise to a future rebirth for me as a wealthy householder. Should I become aware of such a thought, I could immediately think of how worldy wealth in and of itself has anicca, dukkha and anatta nature if it binds one to the thirty-one realms, abandon the thought and think of thoughts of having all sentient beings being liberated from samsara. In the days after the act of giving, I may also sincerely wish for the benefit of all sentient beings.
In this way, can kamma beeja done at the very moment of an act have its effects modified by future and past kamma beeja, even if it is the kamma beeja grasped at the cuti-patisandhi moment?
August 28, 2018 at 1:27 am #17995
By the way, y not, you have to pardon me for replying only now. I was engaged in some work and attending to other matters before my reply. :)
August 28, 2018 at 5:04 am #17996LalKeymaster
firewns said: “Lal, I agree that at least initially it is not possible to control what kind of cetasikas arise as the cittas arise so rapidly. However can kamma beeja be altered, or if not, at least have its effects modified by other kamma beeja?”
It is not that kamma beeja need to be altered. They are unable to bring vipaka (especially in rebirth) when panna is cultivated.
– For example, when one attains the Sotapanna stage, all kamma beeja that can bring in rebirth in the apayas become ineffective. No kamma beeja can bring rebirth once the Arahant stage is attained.
However, kamma vipaka can bring in results for humans until the Arahant’s physical body dies. This has to do with the mental body from being shielded by the physical body. But if a brahma attains the Arahanthood, that brahma will immediately attain Parinibbana, because a brahma does not have a physical body.
This is why Angulimala, who killed 999 people was able to attain the Arahanthood. He did not grasp a new birth at the death of the physical body. But he was subjected to harassment until his death.
August 28, 2018 at 8:43 am #18005y notParticipant
…and you must pardon me for not replying at all. After Akvan’s and Lal’s replies there was no need to. Not that I would have supplied answers like that had I written before they did (please do not get me wrong)…more that anything I would have said would have been insignificant in comparison.
I would here like though to take the idea of the sponsoring of Dhamma books for free distribution further. From this point on I address also:
Seng Kiat :
and the rest of the participants on, and also readers of, this site:
There are still many people who prefer reading a book rather than access its contents on the internet. As most of us have come to see for themselves, Dhamma is indeed the greatest of gifts. It changes one’s whole attitude towards life, and, if followed, prevents suffering in the short, but most importantly, in the long run..and when one contemplates on just how long that may be, it becomes an urge, an irresistible urge, almost in the sense of a duty (and with some it HAS become a duty, I appreciate) to help others as much as possible to attain to the same deliverance, or to at least help them onto that Path.
Now also a sense of urgency arises when one knows that most beings now in the human realm may not get another chance to hear about Dhamma, not in this mahakalpa at least, let alone follow the Path….even as it is, most do not hear about IT, either because of geographical location, illiteracy, adverse living conditions etc…and the thought ‘and this when Dhamma IS being proclaimed.! It is a situation that should impel those who have become aware of all this to do what they can about it in whatever way possible and however little it may seem at face value.
I now leave it to others to come up with ideas on how we can go about making this happen. As to myself, I am willing to contribute my bit, but that bit will also be the most I can do.
Metta to all
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