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I have not heard of any source in the suttas that sotapanna phala can only happen while listening, and Lal has not found it either.
I am of the personal opinion that it can also very well happen in meditation when reflecting upon the Dhamma one has heard before.
I think the reason why listening works so well though, is because you are actively sustaining in savittakka, savicara and get uplifted by the energy of the voice, and thereby approach the 1st Jhana. When reading the subtitles you are doing the same. Hence you feel the “Ariya effect” which is nothing but the arising of jhana factors due to savitakka savicara.
However when reading a post you do not get that sustained attention in the same way, since you don’t have the assistance of a voice to pay attention to. But I am sure many of you can relate to experiencing the same piti sukha when stopping and reflecting on what you just read. Hence I believe listening is not required for sotapanna phala to happen, but certainly immensely helpful.
I got thinking Lal, that you could reach out to the person creating the English subtitles and collaborate with him. Then you could add subtitles to key sermons together and you could create commentary posts here on Puredhamma.net
Yes, it is my impression that a lot of what is said by the preachers at Dharmayai Obai, they get from listening to Waharaka sermons and then preaching it in their own way and adding their own insight.
It is possible that a gandhabba may stay in the para loka as long as it feels it suitable, eg. The reason why a gandhabba descends into the womb is because it wants to re experience all those pleasant memories of being a child, being loved by their parents, growing up, going to university, going hiking, smoke, eat pizza, fall in love, have sex, getting married, having children, having grandchildren etc.
However if due to karmic conditions, their stay i para loka is more pleasant than that. They may just stay there until that pleasantness runs out, at which point they would long for going though the whole of human life again, but with a slight twist. Just like if you liked the last Marvel movie, most of the time you wouldn’t watch it again, but instead watch the next Marvel movie. it’s the same kind of movie, but with a different story.
If however, you where watching a movie and suddenly the power went out, you would want to return to it as soon as possible. This is the case for those rebirth accounts that had a sudden death. The gandhabba feels as though it didn’t get to experience what it wanted, so it want’s to get back to where it left off as soon as possible.
When it comes to people seeing Jesus or whatever kind of deity of their faith. The way it interpret that experience, is if someone had genuine faith, in let’s say Jesus and lived their life as if that was a reality. Then they would establish an energetic connection with Jesus in the Brahma realm. And if they lived a meritorious life with faith in Christianity, at the point of death the vipaka of that merit will come back connected to ones faith. Meaning that the Brahma Jesus or some Angel, or another Brahma would send them energy, and the gandhabba would dream up a form to interpret the experience of receiving that energy, and hence see a sphere being of light, Jesus or an Angel.
If it was the case with a Hindu Brahmin who worshiped Brahma, they would see their depiction of what they thought Brahma looked like.
If someone worshiped Zeus, and lived a meritorious life according to that faith. I would speculate that they would actually generate a connection with Sakka. And if Sakka helps them out energetically at death, they would see that as Zeus.
If someone worshiped a deity that didn’t actually exist, but lived a meritorious life with the belief that it is real. I would suspect that you may be connected to a deity that represents those same qualities.
If they had believed in an immoral deity like Moloch, and committed child sacrifices to him. Then when they die and they get that vipaka associated with the sacrifices, they may see that as the form of Moloch coming to help them, and they will grasp that, and in so doing they will end up in lower realms.
The reason i see it this way, is because the mindset and belief you do kamma with, is in accordance with the vipaka you receive back. So if i believe in Jesus and do good things in his name, then that vipaka would be connected to Jesus in some way, either by representing similar qualities, a connection to the Brahma Jesus, or connected to other beings with faith in Jesus, or leading one to the path of Jesus, or reminding one of Jesus and what he represents for that person.
When it comes to the argument that, since so many people die all the time, such a deity would not have enough time. I don’t think that applies, since a deva only needs to send that gandhabba some energy.
Sure, most of them are friends, but i can send you those which would be most relevant.
Here’s a small update.
I am currently back in Norway and have been for the last 2 months. In my time in Sri Lanka I was lucky enough to speak with Vimuththa Therani, and will be arranging a retreat for her in Norway at the beginning or end of June. I will make am announcement post about it when everything gets sorted. She can see other’s past lives and recommend meditation methods based upon that, so that’s a great opportunity for anyone in Europe willing to attend.
Other than that, I will be back in Sri Lanka in November. This time to find myself a good forest monastery where the monks are serious about completing the path. Then my plan is to ordain after a few years as Anagarika. This time i will be joined by some Dhamma Friends from America as well. Last time around in Sri Lanka I was a little disappointed in the monasteries i visited. They where all directly connected to Waharaka Thero, but they where either too focused on sermons, or slack on vinaya, or too little seriousness about completing the path without delay. Luckily I have good contacts since my last visit so I will get a lot of help. If anyone is interested in joining the next journey, just get in touch with me :)
If the discord link doesn’t work just contact my Whatsapp nr: +47 941 646 58December 7, 2019 at 12:08 am in reply to: CONFIRMED: Abhaya Thero Meditation Retreat in English 2020 #25833
UPDATE: For those who wish to join the Whatsapp group
We had some problems with spam bots joining, so we had to disable the link. Those who want to join should Contact my Whatsapp and i will then add you.
nr: +47 941 646 58September 20, 2019 at 10:31 pm in reply to: Reference for needing Ariya for Sotapanna phala citta #24889
A Sri Lankan friend of my said to me that the second video in Abhaya Thero’s Season 8 provides evidence in the Tipitaka that you need to listen to the Dhamma from an Ariya to become Sotapanna.
I have not seen it myself, since I cannot understand Sinhala yet.
Just a small update. I will be flying to Sri Lanka on the 18 of September to find myself a monastery to become anagagarika and then eventually a monk.
I have found the monasteries that follow real dhamma and i will check them out to see which ones suit me the most.
Mnastery of Waharaka Temple in Anuradhapura
And then there is one in Gampola near Kandy that i don’t have the exact location for but have contacts to. And they have both a temple and monastery.
If anyone stumbles upon this post in the future and have similar plans you can contact me on what’sapp +47 94164658 :)
My reference for this comes from this video: https://youtu.be/hLq3V03gP4Q
About the establishment of Buddhism in Sri Lanka.
He speaks about the missionaries using their powers at 18:50
And about the novice who announced it over the country at 28:00
But i don’t know where he got it from
I’m curious how that rule applies to cases where a monk could use psychic powers to reveal unseen realms to dispell wrong views? I’ve been wishing that when i become a monk i may develop the ability to show these realms such that people in this age may see through their materialistic wrong views and recognize kamma and the 31 realms. How does that fit with this rule? I’ve also heard that at the time of Asoka, when Arahants where sent out to the edges of the kingdom to spread Buddha Dhamma (among those Sri Lanka), the arahants often used various powers to convert the people from spirit worshipping. Also when the first desana was to be given in Sri Lanka, the novice accompanying Mahinda used his psychic power to announce it to the whole country with his voice.
In “Sansaric Time Scale, Buddhist Cosmology, and the Big Bang Theory” you can include a reference to the new post Origin of Life – There is No Traceable Origin
In Power of the Human Mind – Anariya or Mundane Jhānas under the section on “Extrasensory Perceptions and Powers (Abhiññā)”. It says you can attain various types of powers after you reach arahant. Now anyone who can attain to the 4th jhana can get these powers also with enough effort, it’s just that the further you are on the noble path the easier it becomes to attain such powers and they become more potent and stable. So someone who’s a sotapanna who is skilled in jhana will be able to attain such powers to some extent with a lot of effort, but it would be much much easier for an Anagami who can enter jhana when desired and stay in it. And even easier for an Arahant.
And then it says that the Buddha discouraged pursuing such powers and prohibited public display of them. I’m not very knowledgeable with regards to this, but powers like recollecting past life’s was very much encouraged. Like the Nun Bhadda who was praised by the Buddha for being foremost among the nuns in the recollection of past lives. Also with regards with the other powers, if i remember correctly there where some cases where they were used to convert followers of other sects. And the Buddha even used them as a selling point for the life of a monk when he talked to Ajatshatru. That’s not to say such powers were encouraged, but just a bonus and helpful thing for conversion in suitable cases.
Other than that i spotted a few spelling errors in the newest post about mental and physical body. But that is not of much importance.
I very much appreciate all the new post you’ve been putting out, keep up the good work!
In the post titled: Evidence for rebirth
In point number 3 it says:
“3. However, when one attains the Arahant stage, certain “extrasensory powers” are gained; the ability to “see” previous lives (pubbe nivasanussati nana) is one of them.”
Now this is not necessarily correct because a pannavimutti arahant may not have any extra abilities and may not bother to develop them.
Thank you, that cleared it up :)