The Thread for correcting Wrong Views

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    • #27640
      AxelSnaxel
      Participant

      I had made this Thread before but for whatever reason i can no longer reply to it, so i am making it again. The old one is here

      This thread is intended to be a place for videos and documentaries helpful in correcting wrong views in friends and family.

      If you stumble upon relevant videos please post them here. Such that those of us in need of convincing evidence to open the minds of friends and family have it readily available.

      Relevant topics for videos and documentaries to help correct the 10 wrong views are:

      1. Rebirth accounts and similarities through history

      2. Kamma and Vipaka; how it works importance of doing good and of mother and father

      3. Good documentaries of the life of the Buddha

      4. Psychic abilities and accounts of yogis

      5. Gandhabba and Para Loka: NDE, OBE, no proof of consciousness originating from the brain

      6. Proof of Devas, ghosts and spirits: Flying lights (most UFOs are devas), beings, miracles

      7. Mundane videos on benefits of giving, virtue and meditation

      Please, if you find any good videos please post them here, even the ones elsewhere on this site.
      Don’t forget to mention which views your videos address.

    • #27649
      Lal
      Keymaster

      The following post is from Cubibobi (Lang). Apparently, he was unable to get it posted.

      I have actually been reading this site on rebirth maintained by Walter Semkiw (he calls it reincarnation) for a while.
      Reincarnation Research

      On the home page (bottom right) is a video called “Evidence of Reincarnation”. Starting at 5:51, it talks about a historical figure we all know about: Anne Frank. I find it convincing, and personally, I see a resemblance of the two — Anne Frank and Barbro Karlen, which is admittedly a little uncanny.

      The site also has a section of many cases, including those of celebrity figures; true or not, it makes an entertaining read. Moreover, some are more convincing than others, which can help reinforce our view on rebirths.

      Hope you enjoy it.
      Lang

    • #27653
      Lal
      Keymaster

      The following is from AxelSnaxel. He had the same problem of posting as Lang.
      – By the way, I just updated the forum software. Let us see whether this problem is still going to persist. It is not easy to switch to different software, and I would rather not spend time on that.
      – My apologies to all who have had problems. Please keep a copy of a new post in case the problem persists. If you still run into a problem, please email it to me at [email protected].

      Comment from AxelSnaxel:
      Here I found a good and scientifically minded 30 min documentary on Near-Death Experiences:
      Documentary – “Glimpses of Death” 1988
      This one is good to show that death is not just going to sleep and never waking up again.

      Then I found this lecture about human archeological artifacts dating millions of years back, showing that the current scientific understanding of humanity is limited
      Michael Cremo: “Forbidden Archaeology”
      I think this one will be of particular interest to you Lal, as it will help back up your claims in “the origin of life”

    • #27654
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thanks for the interesting video by Michael Cremo, AxelSnaxel!
      – Yes. He will be proven to be correct in the future.

      As I explained in the post, “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” the Earth was first inhabited by humans with “fine bodies” like Brahma.

      In addition to that sutta, there are several suttas that describe how most Vedic concepts originated from the teachings of Buddha Kassapa who was on this earth millions of years ago, before Buddha Gotama.
      – Buddha Gotama explained that to a Brahmin by the name of Magandhiya who told the Buddha that his Vedic teachers recited a similar verse to Dhammapada Verse 204.
      – See # 8 of the post, “Arōgyā Paramā Lābhā..”

    • #27655
      cubibobi
      Participant

      I watched both videos, and they were terrific. Just a few points for clarification:

      1) In “Description:QED – Glimpses of Death (27 01 1988)”,

      At 8:25, Mrs. Barbara Lambert saw her grandfather, who died when she was 9. By now, we know that this means Mrs. Lambert’s gandhabba saw her grandfather’s gandhabba, who was still in para loka (he had not yet entered another womb). It seems that a gandhabba in para loka tends to look out for his/her family members.

      In the case of Mrs. Jean Williams, at 15:00 she saw her father in a heavenly setting, and then she saw “Jesus”. For her father, it was his gandhabba, but for “Jesus”, it must have been Mrs. Williams’s gandhabba’s imagination of what Jesus would look like, correct?

      2) Michael Cremo: “Forbidden Archaeology” | Talks at Google

      It is fascinating to learn that Buddha Kassapa lived on the same earth as we do, millions of years ago.

      When Buddha Kassapa’s sasana was over (the tipitaka from that period was lost, I suppose?), some of his teachings remained here and there in the Vedas, but people could get only the conventional meanings.

      I have heard the term “pacceka buddha”. Could this be a person who, before Buddha Gotama appeared, could understand the deeper meanings of Buddha Kassapa’s teaching in the Vedas, and realized nibbana, but could not teach others?

      Best,
      Lang

    • #27656
      y not
      Participant

      In Mrs. Lambert’s case, she was 37 when this happened, and her grandfather had passed away when she was 9. 28 years is a long time in paraloka. It is possible, of course, but in the verified cases of children recalling their previous lives, the gap is much shorter. Those ‘ghosts’ who hang around for even hundreds of years had been killed or died in violent circumstances, where death happened unexpectedly.

      “Mrs. Williams’s gandhabba’s imagination of what Jesus would look like, correct?” It is interesting to observe that only Christians see Jesus, they never see Krishna or Shiva. Hindus never see Jesus. 2 people die every second, and a fourth of the world’s population is Christian. That means Jesus must stand there waiting to welcome somebody entering heaven every other second! So this is all subjective, all imagination. But the question then comes: what if ALL OF IT is imagination? But we know that there is such a state as paraloka, and such a state of being as gandhabba. While what is ‘seen’ while floating above your dead body cannot be contested, it seems the same cannot be said for when you are ‘out there’, beyond.

    • #27657
      AxelSnaxel
      Participant

      It is possible that a gandhabba may stay in the para loka as long as it feels it suitable, eg. The reason why a gandhabba descends into the womb is because it wants to re experience all those pleasant memories of being a child, being loved by their parents, growing up, going to university, going hiking, smoke, eat pizza, fall in love, have sex, getting married, having children, having grandchildren etc.
      However if due to karmic conditions, their stay i para loka is more pleasant than that. They may just stay there until that pleasantness runs out, at which point they would long for going though the whole of human life again, but with a slight twist. Just like if you liked the last Marvel movie, most of the time you wouldn’t watch it again, but instead watch the next Marvel movie. it’s the same kind of movie, but with a different story.

      If however, you where watching a movie and suddenly the power went out, you would want to return to it as soon as possible. This is the case for those rebirth accounts that had a sudden death. The gandhabba feels as though it didn’t get to experience what it wanted, so it want’s to get back to where it left off as soon as possible.

      When it comes to people seeing Jesus or whatever kind of deity of their faith. The way it interpret that experience, is if someone had genuine faith, in let’s say Jesus and lived their life as if that was a reality. Then they would establish an energetic connection with Jesus in the Brahma realm. And if they lived a meritorious life with faith in Christianity, at the point of death the vipaka of that merit will come back connected to ones faith. Meaning that the Brahma Jesus or some Angel, or another Brahma would send them energy, and the gandhabba would dream up a form to interpret the experience of receiving that energy, and hence see a sphere being of light, Jesus or an Angel.

      If it was the case with a Hindu Brahmin who worshiped Brahma, they would see their depiction of what they thought Brahma looked like.

      If someone worshiped Zeus, and lived a meritorious life according to that faith. I would speculate that they would actually generate a connection with Sakka. And if Sakka helps them out energetically at death, they would see that as Zeus.

      If someone worshiped a deity that didn’t actually exist, but lived a meritorious life with the belief that it is real. I would suspect that you may be connected to a deity that represents those same qualities.

      If they had believed in an immoral deity like Moloch, and committed child sacrifices to him. Then when they die and they get that vipaka associated with the sacrifices, they may see that as the form of Moloch coming to help them, and they will grasp that, and in so doing they will end up in lower realms.

      The reason i see it this way, is because the mindset and belief you do kamma with, is in accordance with the vipaka you receive back. So if i believe in Jesus and do good things in his name, then that vipaka would be connected to Jesus in some way, either by representing similar qualities, a connection to the Brahma Jesus, or connected to other beings with faith in Jesus, or leading one to the path of Jesus, or reminding one of Jesus and what he represents for that person.

      When it comes to the argument that, since so many people die all the time, such a deity would not have enough time. I don’t think that applies, since a deva only needs to send that gandhabba some energy.

    • #27658
      Lal
      Keymaster

      I just watched “Description:QED – Glimpses of Death (27 01 1988)”.

      The explanation by Dr. Fenwick around 16.30 is a rational explanation of different types of experiences based on one’s upbringing. One’s mind tends to “re-construct” alien experiences to the best of its ability, based on one’s experiences and cultural upbringing.

      AxelSnaxel wrote: “It is possible that a gandhabba may stay in the para loka as long as it feels it suitable,..”
      – Getting into a new womb is determined mostly by kammic energy. The gandhabba is drawn into a “matching womb” meaning parents would have similar gati.
      – Of course, it is possible that the gandhabba may stay close to such a couple because of “gati to gati” attraction. But the gandhabba cannot make that decision on its own.

      Cubibobi (Lang) wrote: “When Buddha Kassapa’s sasana was over (the tipitaka from that period was lost, I suppose?), some of his teachings remained here and there in the Vedas, but people could get only the conventional meanings.”
      – Yes. What happens is some teachings may still be there after the end of a Buddha Sasana, but only mundane interpretations remain.
      – There will not be anyone with magga phala, especially those who can explain the deeper meanings.
      – A good example is the interpretation of Anapanasati as “breath meditation” these days. But then Ariyas like Waharaka Thero come along and provide the correct interpretations. Then the teachings would re-surface for another stretch. Eventually, there will be no Ariyas to explain the deeper meanings and only the mundane meanings will be there.
      – That is going to happen in about 2000 years. But there is going to be another Buddha, Buddha Maitreya, on this Earth. That would be the fifth and last Buddha on this Earth, i.e., in this Maha Kappa.
      – To have five Buddhas in a given Maha Kappa is a rare occurrence. For example, before this Maha Kappa, there were 30 Maha Kappa without a single Buddha. See, #14 of “Pāramitā and Niyata Vivarana – Myths or Realities?

      – Also, a pacceka Buddha cannot explain the Dhamma to others. He would just live and attain Parinibbana even without others realizing that he was a Buddha. Vedic teachings are just transmitted generation to generation. But as time goes, more and more people add their own “mundane explanations” and the true teachings are lost over time. That will happen in about 2000 years. Even during those 2000 years, there are periods where the mundane teachings prevail over the true teachings. That was the case for hundreds of years until Waharaka Thero.

      P.S. Of course, these Out-of-Body Experiences or Near-Death Experiences may give people the wrong idea that “everything will be fine” after death. Such experiences happen ONLY if one’s kammic energy for the human bhava has not yet run out. If the human bhava ends, then one would grasp a new bhava, and that in most cases, it is in a lower realm. The problem is, of course, that we are not able to hear from those.

    • #27660
      Johnny_Lim
      Participant

      Is there any reason why during NDE, the Gandhabba doesn’t talk to other entities? Communication appears to be exchange of emotions without spoken words. Something like what happens in a dream. A person who dreamt of a deceased relative often recalls the deceased person not speaking to him or her in the dream.

    • #27661
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Johnny_Lim wrote: “Is there any reason why during NDE, the Gandhabba doesn’t talk to other entities? Communication appears to be exchange of emotions without spoken words..”

      Gandhabba only has a manomaya kaya or “mental body.” Even though it has the outline of a physical body, there is very little “matter” there. That is why an average human cannot see a gandhabba.
      – Without a physical body with a mouth, tongue, etc, it cannot get the sound out.

      That is how one communicates with any Brahma too. Brahmas do not have physical bodies either. For example, when Brahma Sahampati had a “conversation” with the Buddha right after Buddha’s Enlightenment, there were no spoken words exchanged.
      – It is just an exchange of ideas without words, just like in the dreams.

    • #27662
      cubibobi
      Participant

      Lal said:
      “Of course, these Out-of-Body Experiences or Near-Death Experiences may give people the wrong idea that “everything will be fine” after death.”

      That’s right; I didn’t look at it from that angle. On the one hand, this can help us remove ucceda ditthi. On the other hand, it may give us the false impression that the rebirth process is just fine, and we may see no need to end it.

      Here, knowledge of the big picture of the 31 realms, especially the apāyā, helps put things in perspective.

      Lal said:
      “It is just an exchange of ideas without words, just like in the dreams.”

      Does the gandhabba leave the body when we dream? In my dreams, I can see and hear, which must be through the cakku and sōta pasāda rūpa (physical eyes are shut and physical ears do not hear things); and the pasāda rūpa can function on their own only outside of the physical body, right?

      Finally, one more curiosity: at around 17:35 the video mentions the limbic system in the brain that gets active at this moment. Could this system be the mano indriya?

      Thank you,
      Lang

    • #27663
      Lal
      Keymaster

      cubibobi (Lang) wrote: “Does the gandhabba leave the body when we dream? In my dreams, I can see and hear, which must be through the cakku and sōta pasāda rūpa (physical eyes are shut and physical ears do not hear things); and the pasāda rūpa can function on their own only outside of the physical body, right?”

      This is a good question. I think someone asked this sometime back and I did not realize what was being asked.
      – No. The gandhabba does not leave the body while we dream.
      – The dreams are not seeing (and not heard) with the corresponding pasada rupa.
      – Our dreams are “made up” by the mind. A dream is based on something that had been registered strongly in the mind. The mind “re-lives” or “makes up” scenarios based on those experiences/impressions.
      – Therefore, a dream is fully “mind-generated.” Those visuals are not real rupa and those sounds are not real sounds.

      We see dreams after we fall asleep, but before we get to deep sleep. During this time, the mind is active, but all five physical senses are shut down.

      cubibobi (Lang) asked: “Finally, one more curiosity: at around 17:35 the video mentions the limbic system in the brain that gets active at this moment. Could this system be the mano indriya?”
      – This is a good point too.
      – The limbic system has the following components among others: amygdala, hippocampus, thalamus, hypothalamus. As I have discussed in several posts, our memories generated in the hadaya vatthu are transmitted to the “external world” by a “transmitter” in the mana indriya and memories in the kamma bhava (external world) are recalled using a “receiver” in the mana indriya. Of course, the mana indriya is in the brain, but Buddha Dhamma (Tipitaka) does not address that clearly. Of course, parts of the brain had not been known to humans at the time of the Buddha, so it would not have possible to try to explain at that time.
      – A patient (called patient H.M.) lost his ability to recall past events when a tiny part of his brain in the limbic system was removed surgically (that was done to stop a problem he had with frequent seizures). See, “The Amazing Mind – Critical Role of Nāmagotta (Memories)” One should read the whole post, but I discuss patient H.M. in #6 there.

      These are very interesting aspects. But I do not want to spend too much time on this since there are more pressing issues to address.

    • #27694
      y not
      Participant

      A case from my own personal experience, Axel. It has to do with your point # 6: “Proof of Devas, ghosts and spirits: Flying lights (most UFOs are devas), beings, miracles”.

      This will sound unbelievable. Do not worry about that, please, because, even now, to me it is IMPOSSIBLE, even though no one is relating it to me, so I do not have to believe anybody. Yet I still say it is impossible. It is a true case of ‘ I couldn’t believe my eyes’. And I still don’t.

      One night in the late 80’s I was up on the roof with my telescope. Waiting for the optics to adapt to the outside temperature, I glimpsed a bright point of light moving in a southerly direction. I ‘caught it’ some way south of the constellation Gemini. I followed the point of light fixedly. Naked eye. I did not want to ‘lose’ it. That had happened before any number of times. I could tell straightaway what it was NOT (I had gotten good at this) -it was not an aircraft. No meteor showers at that time of year in that region of the sky that I knew of. And the light was steady, like a planet’s (i.e. it did not flicker or twinkle).

      From this point on all figures and values are my approximations. The apparent magnitude was between 1st and 2nd. It moved steadily south, with no change in direction or brightness, for what, I would say , were 10 to 12 degrees of arc in about 20 seconds. It then came to a stop. At once it started moving in the opposite direction, towards the north, at the same apparent speed, and, as far as I could tell, on precisely the same trajectory , but now backwards. Then it came to stop.

      When I looked around that region of the sky, I was baffled to see that it was one of the ‘twins’ that give the constellation Gemini its name. I was so bewildered that I did not even observe which one of the two it was, whether Castor or Pollux. I just stopped looking, trying to make some sense of what I had just witnessed. I went downstairs to have a look at the star catalogue. These stars…the first is in reality a six-star system (3 binaries) 51 l.y away, the second an orange giant 34 l.y. away. Now what is astonishing about all this is:

      For a star to show such a transverse velocity…I made some calculations..the nearer one , Pollux, would have to be moving at a speed of about 320,000 c (times the speed of light) !! Plain ludicrous!! Even for me, who never accepted the theory that the speed of light constitutes an absolute limit to speed.

      The only possible explanation I can see – and that only now – is that the light, whatever it was, came to a stop directly in my (our) line of sight squarely with the star, precisely to bewilder me in this way! If now you should tell me: ‘You were seeing things. It was an illusion’ , I am ready to accept that. But if you were to say: ‘ Come off it. You have made this up. You are lying’.
      No, that no, I do not lie.

      So what was it? I read somewhere years ago that ‘ Stars are living beings’! I do not remember the details of that article. You say most UFO’s are devas. I am not sure about that. For one thing, most devas do not need spacecraft to travel. The lower ones may come in their vimanas , granted. We will have to come up with a new acronym: UFB’s, Unidentified Flying Beings!

      And there surely must be beings in human form from other stellar systems throughout the Milky Way and even beyond who will be technologically more advanced than us here. They will have ‘got around’ the speed of light ‘limit.’ The chances of us being the most advanced out of all the ‘humanities’ out there is an insignificant fraction, 1 / billions.

    • #27731
      cubibobi
      Participant

      Hi,

      A few more questions about dreams if I may.

      1) Images and sounds in dreams are not rupā, so they must be dhammā, correct?
      And they arise due to kamma vipakā? Some dreams are pleasant while others are truly nightmares.

      2) Many dreams are filled with actions. For a nightmare, I may be fighting against attackers or running away from vicious animals, etc. For a pleasant dream, I may be enjoying some sensual pleasure.

      In either case, I have no control of the course of the dream. In the dream, I may wish for the chase to stop or the pleasure to continue but have no control over anything.

      Would this be an example of mano sankhara? We know that we have no control over mano sankhara; they come about due to gati. This seems like a very vivid example of that.

      Thank you,
      Lang

    • #27732
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Regarding Cubibobi (Lang)’s questions, I need to repeat what I wrote earlier, maybe a bit differently.

      Our dreams are “made up” by the mind. It is possibly due to a dhammā or a past event.

      Thus, the question: “1) Images and sounds in dreams are not rupā, so they must be dhammā, correct?”
      – Yes. Images and sounds in dreams are not rupā, in the sense of “physical objects or actual sounds.”
      – A dream is based on a past event(s) that registered strongly in the mind. The mind “re-lives” or “makes up” scenarios based on those experiences/impressions.

      Next question: “And they arise due to kamma vipakā? Some dreams are pleasant while others are truly nightmares.
      – That is possible. But my impression is that it depends mostly on the “state of mind.” A mind that has been agitated during the daytime, is more likely to “generate dreams,” especially nightmares.

      Question: “2) Many dreams are filled with actions. For a nightmare, I may be fighting against attackers or running away from vicious animals, etc. For a pleasant dream, I may be enjoying some sensual pleasure.”
      – That is true. The mind is making up a scenario.
      – If one tends to have sexual fantasies, one is likely to see similar dreams.

      Question: “In either case, I have no control of the course of the dream. In the dream, I may wish for the chase to stop or the pleasure to continue but have no control over anything.”
      – That is true. We have helpless to “take any action” in a dream. If a dog is chasing, one may not even be able to “run.” Even a “pleasant dream”, we just experience it. It just happens.
      – In dreams, we experience “parittarammana citta vithi.” There are no javana citta. That is why we just experience them, and cannot generate any javana citta.

      Once a bhikkhu saw a dream where he had sex with a woman. He confessed it to the Buddha. He thought he had to give up the robes since sexual intercourse is prohibited for a bhikkhu.
      – But the Buddha said dreams are not meaningful, and that he had done nothing wrong. The bhikkhu did not do that on volition. There were no javana citta generated on his own will.
      – I believe that logic also holds in the courts. If one does something while “sleepwalking” one is not responsible for such actions. Of course, one has to prove the “sleepwalking” part.

    • #27734
      cubibobi
      Participant

      Thank you, Lal!

      Knowing that there are no javana citta in dreams does explain many things.

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