[Lal]

From the Acinteyya Sutta (AN 4.77):

“There are these four things that are not to be conjectured about, that could make one go mad (become a mental patient). Which four?

“The Buddha-range (i.e., Buddha’s knowledge) is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about.
“The jhana-range of a person in jhana (including kinds of supernormal powers that one can attain).
The precise workings of the results of kamma.
Origins of the world.
These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness and confusion to anyone who tries to find everything about them.”

However, it is good to get SOME IDEA about the wider world of 31 realms. There is no single sutta or a chapter on Abhidhamma that is focused on that.
– What I, and others, have done is to collect bits and pieces of information in many places in the Tipitaka and try to form a crude picture.
– We will never be able to go into fine details. Even if the Buddha wanted to, he would not have been able to provide such a vast amount of information, especially without a printing press that we have today.

Furthermore, he specifically said that he does not want people to get distracted from the main goal: to end future suffering in the rebirth process.

Now, going back to the question of a deva: It appears that a deva could die and be born in the same realm many times, just like humans can be born many times within a given human bhava. The only difference is that a deva will be instantly reborn in another location (in the same realm).

[Lal]

“2) Or will the pattidana have no impact on Y and Z’s good kamma beeja. Rather, the only impact the pattidana will have is on the mindset of Y and Z, by elevating their mindsets?”

That is the main point. One cannot “give” causes(kamma beeja). One can give only conditions for those kamma beeja to germinate. That is what I explained above and also on those posts.

However, I forgot to mention something important. Pattidana is more effective for only certain beings: Especially some pretas, and also gandhabbas to some extent. Those pretas are totally dependent on pattidana. I have talked about this.

Unless one is giving merits to a deceased person or persons, it is always better to give merits to ALL BEINGS. That will help make the conditions better in the whole world for all beings.

This is what the Arahants do, and of course they are very effective. Cultivating metta to all, and giving merits to all, will make conditions in the “whole world” better for all beings. After all, any living being has been one’s father, mother etc in this beginning-less rebirth process: “How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm“.

[Lal]

This is an important question, probably for many people.

Mind phenomena are different from material phenomena. One needs to be careful in applying material phenomena to mind phenomena.

An example is given in the Tipitaka (of course I forget the name of the sutta!). A greedy brahmin one time explained to his sons why giving (dana) is of no use. He asked them to bring a sack of rice and started giving away portions to those who were present. At the end there was nothing left. So, he told his sons: “Do you see? I gave away what was in that sack of rice, and what do I have left? Nothing!”.

One would of course gain NOTHING AT ALL if one’s gives with that mentality. The KAMMIC POWER is generated in the javana citta. And that kammic power is unseen. That is the hard part to understand. It is sort of like for someone from 200 years ago (who has time travelled to the present) to understand how a television works.

• But I think you have experienced for yourself the power of javana citta in your metta meditation, as you mentioned before.
• One may give away many “valuable things” without the “inner feelings/compassion” and may get nothing for it.
• One may give away a little something with strong feelings and compassion, and will get a lot back in the future (especially if one was not thinking about such “returns”).

Another thing to clarify is the difference between “conditions (paccaya)” and “causes (hetu)”.

That kammic power that we talked about above, CANNOT become “causes” for another being. The “root causes” must be there in the person receiving. But pattidana can provide the conditions for cultivating those root causes. In a way, what it does is to make the mind of the person receiving “to a better state” for cultivating those existing causes. Those existing causes could be some “good kamma vipaka” accumulated by that person.

For example, one may have a bunch of “good seeds” to plant, but he/she will not be able to get a good harvest unless those are planted in a field with good soil full of nutrients. So, giving pattidana is like giving fertile soil to that person to plant those seeds.

To put it another way: Beings in the lower realms are in a “bad state of mind” most of the time. Receiving pattaidana can make their minds elevated to a better state for at least a short time. During that time, “samanantara” (suitable conditions) are present for that being to be able to “pull some good vipaka” from the “annantara”, i.e., from the kamma bhava.

[Lal]

“1) Does that above mindset have anything to do with the kukuccha cetasika?”.

It is possible. However, it is more like let down feeling with a tinge of sadness, that one is still unable to get there despite one’s efforts.

“2) Can this concern/worry be extended to other sentient beings? Like “why are others not becoming Sotapanna, or sadness about others not even knowing about Buddha Dhamma, and sadness about the reality that so many infinite beings will remain in sansara”?”

Of course. That feeling (not really sadness, but metta) is in all Ariyas too.

“3) Or would worrying and being sad about others not becoming Sotapanna and remaining in sansara actually be considered as domanassa(amisa dukha) instead of niramisa dukha?”

Feeling sad about others is domanassa(amisa dukha). Of course, anyone below the Arahant stage may have a tinge of sadness too.

[Lal]

“it confused me because there are still 4 letters, not 3 in අනත්‍ථ ..”

No. The last two are combined and are counted as one.

“My end goal is to learn the correct Sinhala script for the 3 concepts anicca, dukkha, anatta.”

Those three words are written in Sinhala script these days as: අනිච්ච දුක්ඛ අනත්ථ (or අනත්ත).

[Lal]

Hello bornplaydie!

This is explained in a different post than the one you quoted:
Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta – Wrong Interpretations

At the top of that post:
“These three words with eight letters are: anicca, dukkha, anatta. (when written in Sinhala/Pāli: අනිච්ච දුක්ඛ අනත්ත but with last two letters in each term in the “old script” combined to become one, so the number of letters become 8 instead of 11. I was able to find only අනත්‍ථ for අනත්ත, but you can see how 4 letters become 3 there).”

If anyone can find the Sinhala word with three letters for අනිච්ච, please post it. There, the last two letters should be “combined” as in අනත්ත to අනත්‍ථ.

[Lal]

Answers to Mahendran’s questions are embedded in the following statement itself:
“Since humans have the control of certain animal populations can I also assume that there will be countless number of gandhabbas are waiting to get in to the wombs of those animals?”

Yes. There are essentially an innumerable animal gandhabbas in the para loka waiting for suitable conditions to be born.

There are also many, many more human gandhabbas waiting for suitable wombs than those with human bodies like us. We can get a rough idea of how many gandhabbas must be waiting for a womb, because in between births in rebirth stories is several years, and in some cases many years. This is why one needs to be grateful to one’s parents for proving that rare opportunity.

The world is much more complex than we can even imagine. The following video gives an idea of the complexity:
There are as many creatures on your body as there are people on Earth!

[Lal]

I did not know Tien has a physics background. I am not sure whether you have seen the section: “Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma“.

Not many people are interested in that section, because not many have a physics background.

[Lal]

Everything in this world can be presented in several different ways:

1. patavi, apo , tejo, vayo, akasa (space), and vinnana. The first four are called earth, water, fire, and air, but that is not really correct; see #7 of: “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāshtaka“.
2. Five aggregates.
3. 12 ayatana.
4. In Abhidhamma: rupa, citta, cetasika.

Yes. Those rupa arise as suddhashtaka, as explained in the above post.

[Lal]

Lot of important questions.

“How does one that is liberated through wisdom come to understand the rebirth process if they don’t develop the divine eye or other abhinna power to observe it?”

One gains wisdom not by seeing previous births, but by seeing the anicca nature. One can see the anicca nature of this life itself.
– However, not believing in the rebirth process is a micca ditthi, and thus makes it impossible to see the anicca anture; see, “Micca Ditthi, Gandhabba, and Sotapanna Stage“.

“Is there some sort of indirect evidence that becomes apparent as one practices Satipatthana?”

Satipattahana is the way to be mindful and to discard bad vaci sankhara; see, “Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra“.
– Please also read the Satipatthana sutta in the “Sutta Interpretations” section.

“..but never believed in rebirth simply due to the increasing animal and human population in the world.”

This is also very important to clarify. Living beings include not only humans and animals, but beings in all 31 realms; see, “31 Realms Associated with the Earth“.
– There are basically an infinite number beings in all 31 realms. Fluctuations in human and animal populations are compensated by births/deaths in other realms.

Please ask questions on anything that is not clear. These are VERY important issues to resolve.

Also see: “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception“.

[Lal]

upekkha said: “So an Arahant wouldn’t have niramisa sukha either?”

Yes. An Arahant experiences niramisa sukha. An Arahant can enjoy jhanic sukha too, and it is recommended by the Buddha. Of course, that involves Ariya jhana.

Glad that you figured out how to do the linking.

[Lal]

Regarding conception (how a gandhabba takes hold of a zygote to become a live embryo), it is discussed in detail in the post:
What does Buddha Dhamma (Buddhism) say about Birth Control?

[Lal]

That seems to have come from your heart, Tien.

The Buddha said that one should see dukha as acute suffering like being pierced by a spear, mundane sukha as suffering, and neutral feeling as anicca. (for one pursuing the Anagami stage).

[Lal]

I highly recommend the sutta reference provided by Christian. There is much to learn from that sutta, and it is a good translation.

Regarding what upekkha said: “Lal had said there are two types of asuras”: There are two types of asuras:
– one is called vinipatha Asuras. They belong to the apayas or the four lowest realms.
– The other is Asura Devas. They are in a Deva realm.

Those normally cannot affect humans, but more powerful devas, such as the Mara Devaputta, can affect humans.

None of them can really affect those who have strong faith in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.

[Lal]

upekkha100: I fixed your link.
Here is a step-by-step way to add a link (this is also in the General Information and Updates, where I provide links to new posts):

1. Open the web page on a new browser window. Copy the title of the post and paste it in the posting where you want to put the link.
   Now go back and copy the URL of the web page.

2. Come back to the posting, highlight the title and click the “link” button on the format panel.

3. A new window will open up and paste that copied link to the “URL” slot. Also, select “Open link in a new tab”, and click “Add Link” button at the bottom.

4. This way, one reading the post will be able to open the post in question in a new window, so that he/she can go back and forth between the post and the web page in question.

Hopefully, that should work. Please let me know if does not.

Regarding the questions:
“1) Is this initial uncontaminated vedana the amisa upekkha vedana?”

No. No one basically “experiences” the first “citta” stage in the “citta, mano, manasan…” steps. As I said in another reply, these descriptions are from Abhidhamma, where the Buddha provided detailed explanations. That is actually what happens, but anyone other than Buddha cannot actually see these steps. The mind goes through this contamination process within a billionth of a second.

“2) Niramisa upekkha vedana is supposed to be the vedana experienced by Ariyas. Other than the anariya/Ariya aspect, what is the difference between amisa upekkha vedana and niramisa upekkha vedana?”

Amisa upakkha vedana is the “neutral feeling” felt by a normal human. It can be, and it is at most times, contaminated with avijja. One just does not know the “reality of that particular situation”.

“3) What would the initial uncontaminated vedana that arises in a Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami be called? Would it be amisa upekkha or niramisa upekkha or something else?”
That is a very hard to question to answer. All we can say is that the mental state would be more and more purified as one gets to higher magga phala.
– An Arahant would be the closest to the “manasan” state, where one just recognizes who it is or what it is, but does not have ANY attachments.

“4) Am I wrong to think that out of those 9 vedana, Arahants would have only 5 out of 9 of those vedana: sukha, dukha, upekkha, niramisa sukha, and niramisa upekkha vedana? I’d think they would have even eliminated the niramisa dukha vedana?”

An Arahant would have the sukha, dukha, upekkha that arise from kamma vipaka. – An Arahant can experience the jhanic experiences.
– Ohter than that, it is niramisa upekkha vedana, a neutral mindset.

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