Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Yes.
- Here, “nama” refers to the “impression of an external rupa” that one likes/dislikes. That is what the mind is focused on at that moment.
- “Namarupa” is the “rupa” created by the mind with that kamma vinnana per that impression. Essentially, that is the kammic energy generated to give rise to such a namarupa in the future.
- The more one does mano, vaci, and kaya (abhi)sankhara (with avijja), the stronger kammic energy becomes.
- That happens because the mind craves (or despises) such a namarupa. This is based on “distorted sanna,” which gives the impression that some things are valuable and can bring happiness: “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā)“
2 users thanked author for this post.
I slightly revised it as follows:
9. Based on ANY sensory input and the uppatti bhavaṅga, a mind will start at a particular DEFILED STATE (with mano saṅkhāra) unless one is an Arahant. Even if an average human may not strongly attach to a sense input, “distorted saññā” is automatically generated; the reason is not realizing the anicca nature, but we will discuss that later.
The point is the following. Following is #1 in that post.
1. The Buddha described this difference in the “Sanidāna Sutta (SN 14.12)“: “Kāmadhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati kāmasaññā, kāmasaññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmasaṅkappo, kāmasaṅkappaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmacchando, kāmacchandaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmapariḷāho, kāmapariḷāhaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmapariyesanā.” OR “Attachment to kāma dhātu leads to kāma saññā, attachment to kāma saññā leads to kāma saṅkappa, attachment to kāma saṅkappa leads to kāmacchanda..and so on to kāma pariyesanā.“
- The first step, “Kāmadhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati kāmasaññā” happens to all, including Arahants.
- The second step, “kāmasaññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmasaṅkappo,” DOES NOT happen to an Arahant or Anagami (who have eliminated kama raga).
- The subsequent step, ” kāmasaṅkappaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmacchando” happens ONLY IF one gets strongly attached to the arammana. That leads to “tanha paccaya upadana” step in PS. That is when the “pancupadanakkhandha” starts. Thus, not all arammana lead to pancupadanakkhandha even for a puthujjana.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The Buddha did not ask “householders” to abstain from sex.
- Any sexual act within “societally-accepted ways” (i.e., with spouse or fiancé) does not violate “kāmēsu micchācārā” under “dasa akusala” or the “ten immoral deeds.”
- However, once one fully understands the dangers of any type of “kāmēsu micchācārā,” one will abstain from any sexual act. But that happens at the Anagami stage.
Furthermore, kāmēsu micchācārā includes not just sexual misconduct but also excessive sensory pleasures. See “Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala).”
Also, note that my name is not “Lai” but “Lal.” I have been correcting this for a while now.
1 user thanked author for this post.
1. All thoughts of a puthujjana are defiled, at least with very subtle “mano sankhara” soon after receiving an arammana.
- It happens automatically at the “purana kamma” stage, triggered by the “distorted sanna.”
- A puthujjana‘s mind examines EVERY sensory input (arammana) with “sanjanati” (“distorted sanna“) and vijanati (making decisions based on it).” See “Cognition Modes – Sañjānāti, Vijānāti, Pajānāti, Abhijānāti.”
- This happens at the “avyākata” or “abyākata” stage of an Idappacayata Paticca Samuppada process.
- If the mind attaches further to that arammana with kama guna, etc., then the “nava kamma” stage starts at the “tanha paccaya upadana” stage. This is where javana citta with vaci and kaya sankhara arise, i.e., “strong kamma” that can even bring rebirths are accumulated.
2. “Kiriya citta” (cittas without a trace of defilements) arise at ANY TIME only in Arahants. This is where a sensory input can be experienced without even a trace of defilements arising in the mind.
3. Therefore, “kiriya citta” are DIFFERENT from cittas that arise in the “avyākata” or “abyākata” stage of an Idappacayata Paticca Samuppada process. P.S. At the “avyākata” stage of an Idappacayata Paticca Samuppada process (i.e., in the “purana kamma” stage), subtle sancetana with mano sankhara arise automatically based on one’s anusaya/samyojana; but they are not strong enough to bring rebirths.
4. Not all arammana lead to the “nava kamma” stage. Most Idappacayata Paticca Samuppada processes do not get to the “nava kamma” stage because the mind may not be firmly attached. (An example I gave was walking to the kitchen to get a glass of water. That does not happen with “kiriya cittas” but no “nava kamma” accumulated.)
- Only at the “nava kamma” stage does one accumulate kamma consciously (with vaci and kaya sankhara with sancetana). That is where “strong kamma” that could bring rebirths can accumulate.) The goal is to stop such sancetana from arising. That is the way to “end of suffering.”
- In contrast, all actions by an Arahant happen with “kiriya cittas” devoid of even a trace of defilements.
5. Therefore, there is no need to focus on actions that do not lead to the “nava kamma” stage. It would be a waste of time! That is what I tried to explain.
- P.S. However, it is essential to understand the steps in the “purana kamma” stage. That will help critically to understand how a mind initially attaches AUTOMATICALLY to an arammana based on the types of anusaya/samyojana. Since an Arahant does not have any anusaya/samyojana left, Paticca Samuppada process of any kind will not even get started for an Arahant.
- Also, it is essential to point out #3 above.
6. Even though “Avyakata Paticca Samuppada” is sometimes treated separately, it is part of the Idappacayata Paticca Samuppada process; it is the beginning part of the Idappacayata Paticca Samuppada process.
_____
The following information could be helpful to those who understand the citta vithi analysis.
7. In the citta vithi analysis, “Avyakata Paticca Samuppada” (same as the “purana kamma” stage) describes what happens up to the votthapana citta. If the mind attaches strongly at the votthapana citta moment, then the “nava kamma” stage starts with javana citta.
8. These are subtle issues that will become clear as one starts putting many concepts together.
1 user thanked author for this post.
“The point is, I would like to know how to classify the citta of a puthujjana without sancetana.”
- The point is such discussions are not relevant to Buddha Dhamma.
- We focus only on thoughts with sancetana. The goal is to stop such sancetana from arising. That is the way to “end of suffering.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
“Q. The everyday activities that proceed with sankhara would not be nava kamma. Because nava kamma only deals with abhisankhara. ..”
You asked this question some time back, too. Why do we have to consider “everyday activities” in Buddha Dhamma?
- Do “everyday activities” (like walking to the kitchen to get a glass of water to quench the thirst, driving to the supermarket to buy groceries, etc.) involve abhisankhara that we must consciously avoid?
- We study Buddha Dhamma to stop future suffering. Do such “everyday activities” lead to “kamma” or, more specifically, “generation of kammic energies that can bring adverse effects (kamma vipaka) in the future?
P.S. Some very subtle mano sankhara arise at the “purana kamma” stage. This was discussed in #10 of “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.“ It was mentioned also starting at #6 in “Taṇhā – Result of Saññā Giving Rise to Mind-Made Vedanā.”
- Such subtle “kamma” in the “purana kamma” stage can happen automatically with any arammana, as stated by “Kāma dhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati kāma saññā, kāma saññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma saṅkappo.” See #10 of “Taṇhā – Result of Saññā Giving Rise to Mind-Made Vedanā.”
- But the mind of an Arahant will not even go through any stage past the “kāma dhātu” stage.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Some relevant points:
1. The neocortex in the brain can carry out some (habitual) bodily functions. It can analyze “incoming sensory data to the brain” and control some functions without the mind (hadaya vatthu) getting involved. A good example is driving to work or school, which one repeats day after day. Neural connections for that activity get stronger with repeated use; it can happen automatically without the mind getting involved after a while. Sometimes, we drive to work while thinking about something else (or while in a serious discussion with a passenger) and still get there safely.
- The neural networks in Artificial Intelligence (AI) work similarly. In this case, AI can learn from millions of people’s driving habits fed (via video) by its programmers. Thus, “self-driving car technology” has the potential to be better than any single driver. However, there is no “intelligence” involved in this case. The technology would be as good as the information it gets in the training phase.
2. The information that the “seat of the mind” (hadaya vatthu) gets is determined by the health of the brain. This is why older people start having memory issues with age when the brain function gradually diminishes. Specific problems with the brain, like Alzheimer’s disease, can change one’s personality.
- The case of Phineas Gage that you mentioned is another example. Damage to certain areas of his brain led to a change in his personality.
This is a complex but fascinating subject. I will write about it in a post one day when I have the time.
P.S. The point here is that whatever happens to the brain becomes irrelevant after one attains the Arahant stage. The mind can NEVER become defiled again, whether the brain sends it the wrong information (or even no information.)
2 users thanked author for this post.
1. Kammic energy generated via mano sankhara cannot give rise to rebirth. Such kammic energies can bring vipaka only during this life or the next.
2. Only vaci and kaya sankhara can generate javana citta strong enough to create kammic energies that can lead to rebirth. They also can bring vipaka during life for numerous lives into the future.
_____
This was briefly described in the new post “Taṇhā – Result of Saññā Giving Rise to Mind-Made Vedanā.“
- With any arammana, a mind gets to the “purana kamma” stage and generates only mano sankhara within that stage.
- It is only when a mind attaches to an arammana and gets to the “nava kamma” stage (starting at the “tanha paccaya upadana” step) that the mind starts generating “strong kamma” consciously. In other words, one must think (with vaci sankhara) about how to “get more of it” and act (with kaya sankhara) on those thoughts.
- Both the “purana kamma” and “nava kamma” stages have several steps, as explained in the post “Taṇhā – Result of Saññā Giving Rise to Mind-Made Vedanā” starting at #7. As stated in #10 there: “As shown in the chart, kamma accumulation accelerates with kāmacchanda, kāma pariḷāha, etc., ending with dasa akusala done with kāya, vaci, and mano kamma.”
- I will explain these steps in an upcoming post. But the point is that strong kamma generation takes place after going through kāmacchanda, kāma pariḷāha, etc. (as also indicated in the second figure.)
________
#1 and #2 above are also explained in Abhidhamma from a different angle.
- When a mind attaches to an arammana, numerous citta vithi run at a high-speed rate. Each citta vithi has seven javana citta.
- As we have discussed, javana cittas start weak, get stronger until #5, and then gradually decrease in #6 and #7. We compared that to a fast runner starting slowly, accelerating, and then slowing down at the end of the run.
- The first two javana cittas (#1, #2) have only mano sankhara. Only in #3 and #4 vaci sankhara arise, and even stronger kaya sankhara arise in the 5th. The last two are weaker mano sankhara.
- All javana cittas become stronger in the subsequent citta vithi. Yet, mano sankharas never get strong enough to bring rebirth.
- I am too busy today to look for the posts that discussed the above points in Abhidhamma. One relevant post is “Āsēvana and Aññamañña Paccayā.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
“So we have to change “Vedanā-paccayā taṇhā” into “vedanā paccayā paññā” permanently, through “paññā” and NOT through suppression or stopping through the cultivation of Anariya Jhana.”
- That is correct, provided that one comprehends (with paññā or wisdom) how that “mind-made vedanā” (“samphassa-jā-vedanā”) arises due to “distorted saññā” (which can be loosely translated as “distorted perception.”)
1 user thanked author for this post.
Excellent observations, Pathfinder!
You wrote: “From what you say it seems that even the prefrontal cortex plays a “receiving” function instead of an executive, decision making one! To try to fit in the context of dhamma, Gage could have become “a surly, aggressive heavy drinker who was unable to hold down a job” with damage to the prefrontal cortex because the inputs to his mind has be tweaked, eg the inputs to his mind does not have the long term consequences.
His gati has not changed, just that whatever his mind is receiving changes. Hence it is not that his sanna changed even though he is seeing less long term consequences, it is that the input to the mind itself does not have long term consequences. Which is why for an arahant, even with damage to the prefrontal cortex, he does not need input of long-term consequences because his mind would inherently know what is the right thing to do. Would this be an accurate explanation?”
- Yes. It is! I will write a bit more on that later today.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The English translation of “Āhāra Sutta (SN 12.11)” incorrectly says that “kabaḷīkāro āhāra” is “solid feed.
- However, all four types of “āhāra” are “food for the mental body.”
- That is just like “rupa” in most cases refers to the “mind-made rupa,” and “vedana” means “mind-made vedana.”
- All of those can be “stopped from arising” (nirodha.)
- For example, “Upādānaparipavatta Sutta (SN 22.56)” states “āhāranirodhā rūpanirodho.” That means “all “mind-made rupa” can be stopped from arising by “stopping all types of “food for the mental body.” An Arahant can see external rupa and does eat solid food!
1. All four types of “food” (āhāra) are “food for the mind to be engaged in the rebirth process. An Arahant does not take in any of the four types. An Anagami does not “consume kabalinkā āhāra” even though they (and Arahants) eat food.
2. Kabalinkāhāra (kabalinkā āhāra) is not physical food. It is the CRAVING for tastes, smells, and body touches in general. As we know, those three senses are available only in kama loka (the lower 11 realms, including the human realm and six Deva realms.)
- When craving for the three types of “close contact sensual pleasures” is stopped, kabalinkā āhāra ceases (nirodha).
- At that point, one is freed of rebirths in kama loka (the lower 11 realms, including the human realm and six Deva realms.)
- The other three types of “āhāra intake” by the mind stop at the Arahant stage.
3. “Phassa” in “phassa āhāra” refers to “samphassa.” That is not merely contact but “contact with san” or “san phassa,” which rhymes with “samphassa.”
4. See “Āhāra (Food) in Udayavaya Ñāna” This is an old post and may need to be revised. I see that I have mainly discussed kabalinkā āhāra.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Yes. Excellent explanation.
Another way to look at it is as follows.
(1) Upon attaining the Arahant stage, the mental body (manomaya kaya/gandhabba) undergoes a HUGE change. All anusaya/samyojana/gati are eliminated.
(2) However, while undergoing some changes, the physical body still lives as a human body and is subjected to decay and death as for any other human. Thus, an Arahant would feel pain if injured and still generate “distorted sannas” based on other sensory inputs. Of course, such “distorted sanna” cannot lead to a defiled mind because all anusaya/samyojana/gati have been eliminated. In other words, all biochemical processes would be the same as for other humans, but a defiled mind can never arise!
4 users thanked author for this post.
“Would you say that it is a kamma vipaka to change his gati? If an arahant is subject to the same accident, would he have a similar result?”
1. An Arahant has no “gati” left. So, it is not possible to talk about changing “gati” of an Arahant.
- Please keep in mind that we are talking about “defiled gati.”
2. There are only five major “gati,” but there can be many minor varieties within them: “Gati Sutta (AN 9.68).”
- An Arahant was born with “human (or manussa) gati.” But upon attaining the Arahant stage, not only his “manussa gati” but also the possibility of acquiring any other major gati types (niraya, tiracchānayoni, pettivisayo, or, devā) were all eliminated.
- Of course, niraya, tiracchānayoni, pettivisayo belong to the apayas. The devā category includes the six Deva realms and 20 rupa loka and arupa loka Brahma realms.
- It may need some serious contemplation.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The physical body of an Arahant is subject to the same biochemistry as any other human body.
- Of course, an Arahant would not consume any drugs or alcohol. But if he did, the biochemical reactions in the body would be the same.
We need to remember that the workings of kammic energy dictate “nature’s laws.” All biochemical processes take place according to kammic laws.
- Both mental and physical bodies in human bhava (any bhava) are according to the gati that led to grasping that human bhava in kama loka.
- One’s gati are according to the (abhi)sankhara cultivated. That lead to “bhava paccaya jati” according to Paticca Samuppada (“pati iccha” leading to “sama uppada.”) That is a critical outcome of Paticca Samuppada.
- See “Paṭicca Samuppāda – “Pati+ichcha”+“Sama+uppāda”
- This is a critical point to understand.
1 user thanked author for this post.
I don’t know the accuracy of that statement in Wikipedia.
- If it is true, then it must be “Asura god.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
