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Yes. It is a good topic for “insight meditation.”
1. A maha kappa consists of four “asaṅkhyeyya kappas” or ‘incalculable periods.” That will help your point, “Of course 1 kappa is utterly long and suffering in the apaya for billions of years would be insane,” to sink into the mind.
- See “Kappa Sutta (AN 4.156).”
2. We can visualize it as follows: Suppose the following offer is made: You can have the most luxurious vacation possible for nine months, but you will be subjected to unimaginable suffering for almost three months.
- That is the equivalent of a sentient-being spending three “asaṅkhyeyya kappas” without suffering and almost one “asaṅkhyeyya kappa” in the apayas. That is because the time spent in all “good realms” (averaged over many maha kappas) is insignificant compared to the time spent in the apayas. See #8 of “Cuti and Marana – Related to Bhava and Jāti.”
- The other problem is that the cycle keeps repeating. It does not end until a magga phala is attained.
3. If one spends some time contemplating this, one would be incentivized to make the best effort to attain a magga phala!
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1. There is nothing wrong with getting into jhana. But one must be careful not to think one is closer to Nibbana (magga phala) because one can get into jhanas. Most Brahmas are puthujjana.
- The Buddha labeled the “kama loka” as “hīna dhātu” (hīna means “inferior”), “rupa loka” as “majjhima dhātu” (majjhima means “middle”), and “arupa loka” as “paṇīta dhātu” (paṇīta means “superior”).
- Thus, humans live in “kama loka,” which gives rise to “inferior perceptions, inferior views, inferior thoughts, inferior intentions, inferior aims, inferior wishes, an inferior person, and inferior speech.” See “Giñjakāvasatha Sutta (SN 14.13).”
- @ marker 4.1: Those Brahmas in rupa loka experience “middling (middle) perceptions, middling views, middling thoughts, middling intentions, middling aims, middling wishes, a middling person, and middling speech.”
- @ marker 5.1: Arupavacara Brahmas in arupa loka experience “superior perceptions, superior views, superior thoughts, superior intentions, superior aims, superior wishes, a superior person, and superior speech.”
2. Now, jhanic experiences (especially in jhana samapatti) of humans are similar to the experiences of rupa loka Brahmas.
- arupa samapatti experiences of humans are similar to the experiences of arupa loka Brahmas.
3. One can attain magga phala from kama loka, rupa loka, or arupa loka.
- However, since seeing and hearing are not possible in arupa loka, only those arupa Barhamas with at least the Sotapanna stage of Nibbana can attain higher magga phala.
4. From any of the “three lokas,” one must get to the upacara samadhi (for magga phala) to be able to cultivate Satipatthana and attain higher magga phala.
5. The advantage of getting into jhanas is that while in a jhana, it would be easier to get to upacara samadhi because most akusala thoughts do not arise while in the jhana.
- The disadvantage is that many people get attached to the “jhanic experience” and get stuck there. Some even think they have attained magga phala because of the “better mindset/experience,” which, unlike sensual (kama) experiences, can last long, even for hours.
- But if one can cultivate an Ariya jhana, that would be a special case. Only an Anagami can get into even the first Ariya jhana, because one would have eliminated kama raga (instead of just suppressing as in anariya jhana.)
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The old post has been rewritten with a new title: “Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Nine Stages of Mind Contamination“
- Dosakkhayo quoted from that new post.
- Yes. I will try to do that ASAP.
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I wrote: “It is a very superficial explanation.”
- This video does not change that.
P.S. Please post videos only if they explain Paticca Samuppada, including the concept of “bhava.”
P.P.S. I just saw a video by Bhante entitled “Breathing Meditation – New Perspective: Sattipathana Sutta – Part1.” Of course, I did not watch it.
- I don’t think I need to see more videos or anything else on this topic.
- Anyone who called Satipatthana “Breathing Meditation” would not know much about Buddha’s teachings.
I forgot to explain how I concluded Bhante did not understand Paticca Samuppada (Dependent Origination.)
- He discussed it starting at 35 minutes in the video Lang posted: “What is a Jhana? Commentaries vs Suttas – Meaning?“
- It is a very superficial explanation. In particular, at 37 minutes, he describes “bhava.” I don’t think he understands it.
- He says bhikkhu Bodhi translates “bhava” as “experience,” and bhikkhu Silananda translates it as “habitual tendencies.” None of them seem to understand it, even though bhikkhu Silananda’s translation is better.
- “Bhava” is the “kammic energy” or “kammic potential” that can bring rebirths or “various mental states during a life.” That energy is generated via “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra; saṅkhāra paccayā viññāna; viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa” steps once getting to the “taṇhā paccayā upādāna” step he just went through. See “Taṇhā Paccayā Upādāna – Critical Step in Paṭicca Samuppāda” and “Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava.”
- If there is another video where he explains Paticca Samuppada (and “bhava“) better, I would like to watch it.
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Trying to resolve these “philosophical issues” is a waste of time.
- Do you not remember past suffering? Do you not see that there will be future suffering that one will inevitably perceive as “mine”?
- The Buddha taught the following: Understand that there is suffering, and also understand that it can be stopped.
Of course.
- “Kamaguna” arises in a puthujjana‘s mind because they think the “sweetness of sugar” is real and not mind-made.
- The tricky part is that no experiments within the world can deny that the “sweetness of sugar” is in sugar. Scientists will say a specific type of molecule causes the sweetness. Those molecules are made by kammic energy to provide that “sanna of sweetness” in humans!
- P.S. Even for an Ariya who has understood this process (janato), it will take time to overcome the attachment to that sanna (“passato“). That is what I explained above.
- This is also why the Buddha said his Dhamma would be difficult to comprehend. Even the “janitor” part may not be easy, but that is the “core” of the Buddha Dhamma. To become “sanditthiko” (i.e., how “san” arises), one needs to comprehend this process.
Take the time to read the comments and relevant posts.
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This is a complex issue. Some (a few) enjoy it, too. I think over-analyzing such cases may cause more questions without much benefit.
- Some questions will be answered as one makes progress.
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For anyone who has not understood how the “sweetness of sugar” gets “embedded in sugar,” “kamaguna” is in sugar.
- However, one who understands the process knows that the “sweetness of sugar” is “embedded in sugar” due to a mental process. Only those who have similar mindsets taste sugar to be sweet (a lion does not taste sugar to be sweet.)
- Thus, one who understands the process will not attach to the “sweetness of sugar” even though they still taste “sugar to be sweet.” That is mainly because they also understand that such attachments lead to more suffering.
- Just that understanding, by itself, (janato) does not remove the craving for sweet things or more desirable sensory experiences. That is why one needs to contemplate that incessantly. That is why Satipatthana must be cultivated by those who understand the process to get to the “passato” stage. See “Jānato Passato” and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”
- These “kama sanna” are deeply engraved in our minds through countless lives. It is not easy to lose that “distorted sanna.” In the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)“, the Buddha said it could take seven days to seven years if cultivated properly.
Thanks, Lang.
- I watched the video until Bhante started talking about Paticca Samuppada. I am afraid he does not understand it.
- That is all I needed to know.
So, this is not any better than Goenka Vipassana!
- I get depressed when I see how little of Buddha Dhamma is being taught. It is a sad situation.
- Whether people can get to anariya jhana is not a factor at all. We all had attained the highest jhanas uncountable times in our past.
Thanks, Lang.
I watched the second video, which does give the instructions. They are very simple (six R’s): Recognize (bad thoughts), Release, Relax (with mundane metta), Re-assemble?, Return, Repeat.
- So, it is another variation of the breath mediation. Instead of focusing the mind on the breath, focus on “spreading metta.”
- In a way, it is an improvement over the neutral breath.
How easy is it to get a jhana using this method? Please comment if anyone other than Amin has used this method. Amin says it is easy.
- Is one supposed to do “insight meditation” to attain magga phala? That is the next question.
- If there is an instruction video on that, please post it. I would like to see what that involves.
Thank you for your descriptions.
- I would like to know how you get into a jhana. What is the procedure?
- The easiest way would be to post the link to a video of your instructor providing instructions.
Taryal: “One could ask why A should worry about B’s suffering if they’re not the same.”
Let us recall that Yash started this discussion with: “Let’s say A has done a bad deed and after dying ,many births later, it has been born as B.”
- So, A cannot worry about B because B will be in the future.
Now, we can see the truth of Taryal’s subsequent statement: ” In a way, the same thing happens in a single lifetime too, right? Each citta arises and passes away but the “momentary perception” of self is always there. When a toddler grows into an adult human, it becomes a totally different person but there is a continuity (since it is the same life stream) which is why when a human thinks about their past, there is the perception that it is the same person.”
