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“I have been experiencing immense fear that also causes my hands and legs to shiver when I am focusing on the “me” part. “
- Why do you focus on “me”? Did the Buddha ever teach that?
- In ultimate reality, there is no “me.” What happens to an Arahant upon death? Was there an “I”? Only the suffering ceased.
- Things happen due to causes and prevailing conditions (Paticca Samuppada.)
- We need to focus on how suffering (pancupadanakkhandha or our experiences) arises. When we understand that, we will realize how to prevent it from arising.
- However, DO NOT start with the idea of “deleting me” either. Just understand how our minds respond to sensory inputs. We focus on how a mind attaches to sensory experiences. There is no need to make it “my mind.”
If you can explain precisely what you meditated on (if that is OK), we may be able to understand what happened.
Thank you for the document. I had not seen it.
- Of course, this issue does not affect our goal of attaining Nibbana.
- Still, many people are interested in this issue. I believe that the truth will eventually reveal itself.
The difference between rupa jhana (corresponding to the mental states of rupa loka Brahmas) and arupa samapatti (corresponding to the mental states of arupa loka Brahmas) is pointed out in #5 of “Samādhi, Jhāna, Magga Phala – Introduction.”
- It must be clear that there is no 9th jhanic/samapatti state per Zapper’s question.
- Once one transcends the fourth arupa samapatti, one attains Arahanthood.
- Ancient anariya yogis (including Uddaka Ramaputta mentioned in the Tipitaka) were able to proceed all the way to the highest arupa sampatti (nevasaññānāsaññāyatana). But they could not transcend that (and to separate from the world, i.e., get to Arahanthood) because all of their samyojana (sansaric bonds) remained intact. To break those ten samyojana one must comprehend the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana. As explained in many posts, it is a stepwise process for a puthujjana (via Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami, Arahant).
- Our Bodhisatta achieved that during the night of his Enlightenment (and became a Buddha).
New Post:
Sotapanna Stage from Kāma Loka
Revised:
Details Of Kamma – Intention, Who Is Affected, Kamma Patha | Pure Dhamma
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1. I revised the link in Zapper’s comment to point to the verse he quoted: “And so, going totally beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, I entered and remained in the cessation of perception and feeling. And, having seen with wisdom, my defilements were ended.”
- In Pali: “So kho ahaṁ, ānanda, sabbaso nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ samatikkamma saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ upasampajja viharāmi, paññāya ca me disvā āsavā parikkhayaṁ agamaṁsu.”
2. At the Arahanthood, a mind completely separates from various “distorted saññā” associated with the world of 31 realms.
- That process of overcoming the “distorted saññā” associated with all three lokas (kama, rupa, arupa) happens stepwise for an ubhatovimutti Arahants; Buddha attained the Buddhahood that way, too.
- Once overcoming the “kama saññā” (triggering the mind-made “sensual pleasure” perception) associated with the kama loka, one gets to the Anagami stage. Then one must overcome the “rupa saññā” (triggering the mind-made “jhanic pleasure” perception) associated with the rupa loka (there are four jhanic states discussed in the suttas). Then, one must overcome the “arupa saññā” (triggering the mind-made “arupa samapatti pleasure” perception) associated with the arupa loka (there are four arupa samapatti states discussed in the suttas). Thus, there are eight jhanic/samapatti states with the last one being “nevasaññānāsaññāyatana” (dimension of neither perception nor non-perception). In that state, the “distorted saññā” is so weak that it almost goes away, but because the arupa raga samyojana still remains intact, it comes back.
- In the final step, that arupa raga samyojana is overcome too, and the mind is fully released. That is the ninth state referred to: saññāvedayitanirodha or cessation of perception and feeling. Here “saññāvedayitanirodha”is “saññā avedayita nirodha” meaning one would be released from the (distorted) saññā associated with that last (eighth) samapatti state of nevasaññānāsaññāyatana.
3. Thus, the battle for Nibbana involves overcoming the “distorted saññā” associated with all three lokas (kama, rupa, arupa).
- A pannavimutti Arahant gets there without going through the stepwise process.
- For example, Ven. Bahiya may have arrived at Nibbana directly from the kama loka without cultivating rupa jhana or arupa samapatti. That certainly seems to be the case for Minister Santati, who had just returned from a battle. They were both pannavimutti Arahants.
- Some may have attained Nibbana (Arahanthood) via a low-lying specific jhana or a samapatti.
- One would be an ubhatovimutti Arahant only if one goes through all the nine steps.
Thanks to Zapper for pointing out this sutta!
I had mistakenly provided a wrong link in the above comment. It should be “Anupada Sutta (MN 111).”
- I just corrected it in the above comment, too.
- My apologies for the confusion.
“But perhaps there is little one can know without exposure to Dhamma?”
- Yes. That is the key. Unless a Buddha or a disciple of the Buddha explains these concepts, no one can figure out the Buddha Dhamma, i.e., the ultimate laws of nature.
- These “ultimate laws of nature” (embedded in Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana) can be discovered only by a Buddha. That is why the birth of a Buddha is so rare; it is not easy to attain the Buddhahood. Sometimes 30 maha kappas (i.e., trillions of years) go by without a Buddha appearing in the world.
- That is why we should not miss this opportunity. It is a “once in a trillion years” opportunity.
1. First, it is a good idea to link a sutta in the following format, where each verse is allocated a marker: “Anupada Sutta (MN 111).”
- If a Sutta Central sutta does not show the markers, type #1.1 at the end of the URL, and the sutta will be reloaded with the markers. For example, the URL in the link you gave has “script =latin” at the end. Just add “#1.1” to it to become “script =latin#1.1”
- Also see the URL in my link above to get the idea.
- Once you get that format, click on any specific marker number, and the URL will indicate that marker. (You can also manually change the marker number in the URL.)
- It will be helpful for EVERYONE to use this format, so we can refer to marker numbers to point out specific verses.
2. I set the link to highlight the start of your quote in your comment above (“For a fortnight he practiced discernment of phenomena one by one.”)
- @marker 3.1 it says he attained the first jhana (referred to as “first absorption” in the translation) “..paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.”
- @marker 5.1: He attained the second jhana and so on until @marker 19.1 it says Ven. Sariputta attained saññāvedayitanirodha: “..saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ upasampajja viharati.”
- That is when he became an ubhatovimutta Arahant!
- That sequence of events (where he went through all the jhanas and samapattis to get to nirodaha samapatti at the Arahanthood) happened two weeks (a fortnight) after he attained the Sotapanna stage.
3. So, I think you are confused in some way.
- If I missed anything, please refer to the relevant verse numbers/markers when explaining.
There is no mention of nirodha samapatti there. When clicking on the asterisk, it says the following:
- Ven. Sariputta attained the Sotapanna stage while listening to a single verse by Ven. Assaji (at that time he was a disciple of Sanjaya).
- Then he abandoned Sanjaya as his teacher and became a follower with the Buddha (became a bhikkhu.)
- A fortnight later, he attained the Arahantship.
Thank you, Jittananto.
“The fact that nothing is felt is precisely what’s blissful about it.”
- Most people do not realize the incessant suffering in the lower realms (apāyās) where a sattā (anyone below the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage) spends a lot of time in the rebirth process!
- Even in the human realm, our minds are stressed out most of the time. This becomes especially evident after reaching the Anagami/Sakadagami stages. In several suttas, Anagamis’ utterance of “aho sukhaṁ” (“how blissful it is”) is mentioned.
- See, for example, “Bhaddiya Sutta (Ud 2.10).”
P.S. Jittananto’s following comment above needs to be further clarified: “This is sutta central explaining : The fortnight between realizing stream-entry while still a student of Sañjaya (Kd 1:23.5.6) and arahantship while overhearing the Buddha teach Dīghanakha (MN 74:5.1).”
- Where in MN 74 those statements appear?
That’s a good point. “Anatta” refers to a characteristic of nature: Worldly things (and any perceived pleasures) are devoid of any substance (unfruitful) and have dangerous consequences for the future.
- Also, “sukha” is not a feeling (vedana). It is the complete absence of suffering.
- The post “Nibbāna “Exists”, but Not in This World” explains it: “Nibbāna sukha” is NOT a feeling. It is the absence of suffering. The closest analogy is the following: Suppose someone has had a chronic headache from birth. One day, it is cured, and he feels a great relief. That relief was not a new vedanā but the absence of “dukkha vedanā.”
Yes. It is.
- See the first discourse in “Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses.”
In a comment above, I wrote:
“In other contexts, paraloka could mean different things.
- When a human dies, the gandhabba comes out and stays in that state for many years until entering another womb. In that case, it is said that the person has gone to paraloka, meaning from the world we can see to “the world of gandhabbas.” This is a somewhat common saying in Sri Lanka.”
The following sutta gives an example of this usage: “Mogharājamāṇavapucchā (Snp 5.16).”
“Ayaṁ loko paro loko, brahmaloko sadevako; Diṭṭhiṁ te nābhijānātigotamassa yasassino.” OR
“Regarding this world, the other world, and the realms of Brahmas and Devas, I’m not familiar with that worldview of the renowned Gotama.”
- The first two refer to the human realm (with a physical body and “the other world” referring to the gandhabba state).
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I think religions based on a “Creator” attribute any such “imperfections” to “God’s will.”
- On the other hand, one’s destiny (whether one will go to heaven or hell FOREVER) is supposed to be determined by one’s actions. Yet, some babies die within days. How is their destiny determined?
Yes. There are many contradictions.
“Besides the part about Brahman, is Buddhism also about the fact that our Manomaya Kaya (in other words, the soul) is only just pure awareness experiencing reality?”
- Manomaya kaya is not a “soul.”
- The soul, by definition, is an everlasting entity.
- At the death of an Arahant, his/her manomaya kaya dies and a “successor manomaya kaya” is not generated.
P.S. This is the critical difference between Buddha Dhamma (Buddha’s teachings) and all other religions/philosophies. They all focus on pursuing a “permanent, suffering-free” existence in this world, either in a Deva realm (Creator God in Abrahamic religions) or a Brahma realm (Hinduism).
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