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I wrote, “One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana only if one has samyojana intact..”
- What I meant can be explained with the following example.
- Angulimala killed 999 people and was ready to kill even his mother to get to the thousand, which was his goal. So, he had created a kamma vinnana with that expectation. But once meeting the Buddha, that kamma vinnana was nullified.
- The kammic energy created by his previous actions is still there in vinnana dhatu. But that specific arammana (to kill anyone and add another finger to his collection) would not arise in him ever again.
However, numerous random arammana can arise in anyone, including an Arahant.
- Arammana is a sensory input. As long as one has a physical body, it is subjected to various sensory inputs all day.
- But the difference is that an Arahant will not attach to any arammana, while anyone below that COULD attach to some of them.
This is why writing to explain a given concept can be tricky. I may be focused on describing a given aspect, which may give some a wrong impression.
P.S. It could be better to write what I quoted above as follows: “One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana AND trigger a kamma vinnana to arise only if one has samyojana intact..”
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Those would be kukkucca (worry, also feeling low); thīna (sloth, sluggishness); middha (torpor); vicikicchā (doubt arising from temptations).
- Please read the post and think about these things.
- Most people read a post in a few minutes and expect to understand the concepts. It is a good practice to take time and compare concepts from other posts, especially suggested posts with links. The mind is a complex entity. It takes time to understand how the mind works.
- In his case, I would suggest reading the “Calming the Mind” section.
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“But for an arahant with no samyojana left, are there no subconscious thoughts?”
- No. They don’t generate “subconscious stray thoughts” automatically. They don’t have any expectations in this world.
- However, they can recall anything if they need to. For example, to recognize someone, one must recall past interactions with that person. When Lady Visaka visits, the Buddha’s mind automatically recalls past interactions with her and recognizes her. There is no need to think about who she is consciously.
- But Buddha’s mind would not engage in defiled thoughts like how beautiful she is. There is no agitation of mind based on recalling who she is. No samyojanas exist in Buddha’s mind to trigger such “stray thoughts.”
P.S. I discussed some fundamental aspects in the following section: “Essential Abhidhamma – The Basics.”
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As Seng Kiat pointed out, those are Commentaries written by “anariya scholars” like H. C. Norman. They fall into the same category as many Pali-English dictionaries written by scholars like Rhys Davids.
- Many of them have mundane explanations. However, they are a good starting point. As one learns deeper Dhamma, one will start comprehending deeper meanings.
- See “Pāli Dictionaries – Are They Reliable?“
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Pathfinder: “What about the feeling after we know we did something wrong? (Remorse or guilt). Let’s say I stole money from someone. After doing that I feel guilty for what I have done, thinking how I could have harmed them etc.”
- You steal money with the arising of Ahirika (shamelessness) and Anottapa (fearlessness in the wrong), which are the asobhana cetasika that are the opposites of hiri (shame of wrong) and ottappa (fear of wrong).
- Once stealing (in that example), one’s mind becomes agitated, leading to feelings of guilt and remorse.
Hiri (shame of wrong) and ottappa (fear of wrong) are mental factors (cetasika) that need to be cultivated. One must see the drawbacks of Ahirika (shamelessness) and Anottapa (fearlessness in the wrong).
The post in question is “Cetasika (Mental Factors).”
Pathfinder: “Looking from the cetasika list it seems like guilt involves the “hiri” (shame of wrong) cetasika, eg ashamed that we stole something, which is sobhana cetasika.”
- That is not the way to look at it. When the “hiri” (shame of wrong) cetasika arises in a mind, one will abstain from wrongdoing. One would feel guilty only if one engaged in a wrong action.
It is better to say vipaka vinnana arises automatically due to accumulated kammic energy (residing in viññāṇa dhātu).
- In response to vipaka vinnana, the mind generates kamma vinnana (expectation of a certain outcome) leading to the accumulation of more kammic energy.
But I can see what your confusion is. One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana only if one has samyojana intact. As the number of samyojana goes down, the likelihood of kammic energies automatically bringing sensory inputs (arammana) will diminish.
- But recalling past events has nothing to do with kamma vinnana. All memories remain intact as “namagotta” and may be retrieved even by an Arahant with no samyojana left. For example, they may recall what happened last week but without any cravings (thus, they do not lead to new kamma vinnana).
- Therefore, an Arahant would not feel the urge to go see a movie or go to a restaurant to eat a tasty meal.
I think you may be thinking too hard again. Take a break and then review what was discussed up to now.
- It is easy to mix things up and get confused. I hope I did not unintentionally confuse you.
- If you still have issues unresolved, ask the remaining questions tomorrow. Take a break for now.
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” What I want to understand is how different kamma vinnanas can be in the background.”
I explained that recently in the thread “Sankhata and Nāmagotta.” See my comment on August 3, 2024 at 11:09 am.
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Yes. Thank you!
- Also, the ability to generate “mettā” for all living beings grows with understanding, i.e., comprehension of what “suffering” is.
- In the absence of Buddha’s teachings, the only way people know how to avoid “suffering” is to seek sensory pleasures. That idea/perception is built into our physical and mental bodies via Paticca Samuppada.
- If one truly comprehends how that happens, one will be able to see that seeking such sensory pleasures only leads to more suffering! That is the real meaning of “sandiṭṭhiko.“
- One time, the Māra Devaputta manifested in the form of a brahmin and told the Buddha, “Don’t give up what is apparent in the present to chase after what takes effect over time.” (“Mā sandiṭṭhikaṁ hitvā kālikaṁ anudhāvitthā’ti.”) Here, the Māra Devaputta used the mundane meaning of “what is apparent in the present” to men “sandiṭṭhika.” See “Sambahula Sutta (SN 4.21).” He was basically saying, “Why don’t you enjoy the apparent sensory pleasures? Why are you giving them up seeking something that may be an illusion.”
- But “sandiṭṭhika” means to “see that instant gratification of sensual pleasures is the real cause of much harsher future suffering,” as the Buddha explained to him. The more one engages in sensual pleasures, the further one moves from Nibbana or the “pabhassara citta.” With that revelation, Metta Bhavana becomes much more powerful/effective.
- Of course, it is not easy to see. It takes an effort. Even though Māra Devaputta lives in the highest Deva realm, he is unable to grasp it.
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1. A sensory input is received in “short duration packets” (of about one hundredth of a second duration), processed by the brain and forwarded to the “seat of the mind” or hadaya vatthu.
- When watching a movie, for example, sensory information on sights and sounds come in via two streams of packets: one stream brings in movie scenes and the other associated sounds. As you can see, these are mixed up. But the mind can separate the two streams and ALSO tally them to form a coherent video stream and a sound stream.
- That is a fantastic achievement! I tried to explain that, for example, in “Vision Is a Series of “Snapshots” – Movie Analogy,” and “Citta and Cetasika – How Viññāṇa (Consciousness) Arises.”
2. In the above process, the “mansikara” cetasika (one of the seven universal cetasika that arise in every citta) plays a significant role. It performs the tasks of (i) separating the two different sensory streams (in watching a movie) and (ii) connecting the packets of each stream in the order received and making sense of both streams. Thus, we feel like we see the movie and also hear the dialogue simultaneously.
- This “mansikara” cetasika is also responsible for recalling relevant memories. For example, while watching a movie, one may recall a different old movie with one of the actors.
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Now, let us address the issue brought up by Dosakkhayo. His question was:
- When I am paying for my groceries, my thoughts stay focused on that transaction. But there can be many types of viññāṇa lurking “in the background”. I may be building a house, studying for an exam, planning a trip, planning a birthday party for my child, etc. and all those “viññāṇa” are working in the background even though I am not thinking about any of them at the time I am paying for my groceries.
Q. How does the background operation of vinnana occur? Is this related to purana kamma?
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3. Dosakkhayo: “When I am paying for my groceries, my thoughts stay focused on that transaction.”
- That is exactly right. However, you may also recall a previous related transaction. For example, you may realize that the price is significantly higher now and ask the cashier why.
- Here, it is the “ekaggata” cetasika (another universal cetasika that arises in every citta) that keeps the mind focused on one task. The “mansikara” cetasika is responsible for recalling any previous related memories (that remain as namagotta in vinnana dhatu.) These two cetasika keep the mind focused on the task at hand (or the arammana) and extract any related memories.
4. Now, when you finish the groceries and start driving to get back to the house, your mind will be focused on that task.
- Now, the mansikara cetasika will recall memories (where your house is and how to get there, for example.)
- P.S. See “Where Are Memories Stored? – Viññāṇa Dhātu” and “Rupa, Dhammā (Appaṭigha Rupa) and Nāmagotta (Memories).”
That should give some basic ideas.
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1. I wrote above, “Pabhassara citta has ONLY the seven universal cetasika (phassa, vēdanā , saññā, cētanā, and Ekaggata, jivitindriya and manasikāra.) Furthermore, those cetasikas are in their pure form and ONLY make one aware that one is alive.”
- That is the only time a mind experiences pure pancakkhandha. Even the sanna here is pure.
- When an Arahant (born in the human realm) lives an everyday life (i.e., while not in any samapatti), Any cittas that arise due to sensory input (arammana) will have a “distorted sanna.” While this sanna is NOT defiled, it is distorted since it does not represent reality.
- Since Arahants have fully comprehended that it is an illusion, their minds WILL NOT trigger attachment via any of the ten samyojana.
- Thus, Arahant‘s mind will stop at the “bahiddha vinnana” stage (same as “kama dhatu“) and not get into “kama bhava.”
2. However, a puthujjana‘s mind WILL TRIGGER attachment automatically via one or more of the ten samyojana.
- A Sotapanna‘s mind WILL TRIGGER attachment automatically via one or more of the SEVEN samyojana left (they have eliminated three samyojana).
- An Anagami‘s mind COULD TRIGGER attachment automatically via one or more of the FIVE samyojana left (they have eliminated five samyojana). However, if the arammana is of a sensual type (with “distorted kama sanna“) those types of arammana WILL NOT trigger attachment (for example, those with tastes, smells, and touch, including sexual) since an Anagami has eliminated kama raga samyojana. But if he/she gets into a rupavacara jhana or arupavacara samapatti, their minds WILL still attach since rupa raga and arupa raga samyojana are still intact in an Anagami.
- If attachment occurs, then the mind is now in the “ajjhatta vinnana” stage. Furthermore, now it has advanced to the “kama bhava” from the initial “kama dhatu” stage. This happens with the “distorted kamma sanna” giving rise to “kama sankappa” (sensual mano sankhara); see the figure in #4 of “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- This completes the step “cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhu viññāṇaṁ” in the case of a ‘seeing event.” See #6 of the above link.
3. However, getting into “kama bhava” (or “ajjhatta vinnana“) is just the beginning of a process that has many steps. At each step, the mind gets further defiled.
- Tomorrow, I will write a bit about the next step. Feel free to ask questions.
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Dosakkhayo asked: “Since nirodha samapatti is a state where citta does not arise at all, it is experiencing complete nibbana. Then what does pabhassara citta experience?”
- Pabhassara citta has ONLY the seven universal cetasika (phassa, vēdanā , saññā, cētanā, and Ekaggata, jivitindriya and manasikāra.) Furthermore, they are in their pure form and ONLY make one aware that one is alive.
- One experiences the pabhassara citta for the first time when attaining Arahant phala.
- I believe only certain Arahants can enter “Arahant phala samapatti” and experience the pabhassara citta for long durations. While in “Arahant phala samapatti,” one is unaware of what is happening in the external world and only aware that one is alive.
- “Nirodha samapatti” is very different from that. Here, no cittas arise, and it is like what happens when one is completely separated from the world of 31 realms at the death of the physical body.
The post provided by Lang above is likely to provide the above information in detail.
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Lang wrote: “At first, I thought that the pabhassara citta is supramundane (lokuttara), so I took it to mean that it was not quite a manōdvāra citta; I thought a manōdvāra citta took only a dhammmā from this world.
Searching around, I saw that it took nibbana as the object. I guess this is where the two spheres, lokiya and lokuttara, “touch”.”
I guess Lang is trying to figure out how an Arahant gets into “Arahant phala samapatti” and experiences the pabhassara citta for a long time.
- It likely happens when one focuses on Nibbana by focusing the mind on Nibbana with “‘etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ, yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.”
- One time, Ven. Ananda asked the Buddha whether it is possible to get into a samadhi without focusing on anything in this world. The Buddha explained that, indeed, that is how Noble Persons get into various “Ariya samadhi“: “Manasikāra Sutta (AN 11.8).”
- By the way, “breath meditation” focuses on “vayo” and mundane kasina meditations focus on a clay ball (pathavi), a water bowl (apo), a fire (tejo), etc. Those are all anariya samadhi. Airyas (Noble Persons) DO NOT engage in such mundane meditation techniques. For example, a Sotapanna may be able to get into “Sotapanna phala samadhi” by focusing on Nibbana the same way as above: “‘etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ, yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.”
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Yes. That is a good idea.
- There is no end to seeking answers to such questions. One could waste a lifetime doing that.
- This is why the Buddha said, “I teach you about suffering and how to overcome suffering and nothing else.”
- That is why he refused to answer some questions.
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“Q. How does the background operation of vinnana occur? Is this related to purana kamma?”
- This requires a bit of detailed explanation. I will get to it at least by tomorrow.
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Yes. As long as the “current physical body” is there, it is subject to kamma vipaka, which can come in many different ways.
- Some kamma vipaka can be due to specific kamma done in the past. For example, the Buddha had back pains due to a specific kamma done in the past; I believe it was due to breaking someone’s back in the past.
- But when an Earthquake hits a particular area, many in that area will be affected (killed or injured), and thus, it is not due to a specific kamma.
