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Thank you vilas,
“…able to catch before it happens”
To ‘catch’, yes, but that is only phase one. It does not mean that it is always succeeded by phase 2, the abandoning, what you term as ‘the reversing’- not at once, anyway.
Sometimes the sense input or the mental input ( I mean two different things here) may be too enticing to dispel at once, although the awareness of the need to do so is there. When this happens, I may dwell there for a while, or sometimes a while longer, but I am fairly satisfied that even if I allow that, i.e. if I am unable to repel them on their arising, I feel I am making progress.
The contemplation of asubha I have found to be fundamental here, as it leads to seeing further into the anicca nature, or other aspects of the anicca nature, or these may well be the same aspects viewed as arising from different causes.
Thank you for the encouragement, vilas
Much Metta
Siebe writes:
“But(love and attention) not met with it, it is almost impossible to relax. One will probably experience great stress, taapa, inner fire, when this deeply imbedded need for love and attention is not met with. I also think mental problems arise when this biological longing is frustrated in one way or the other.
I see exactly what you mean. This I see as a result of either one’s gathi or one of reciprocal kamma with those denying that love and attention, or of the two factors at once (to different degrees,according to the case in question).
As to babies, although “those sensations cannot be IDENTIFIED with the baby’s set of anusaya” (Lal), yet we see that behavioral patterns in babies must be due to gathi (therefore gathi is active even at that stage,not dormant as in the case of their response to sense inputs) – for otherwise, whence the difference: one of my daughters used to sleep”like a baby” (!!) – how else?, for several hours, the other one cried at intervals during the night – the former grew up to be visibly more composed and deliberate in her demeanour.
much Metta
Hello Lal
I reproduced that quotation by K.G.Jung for ease of access to readers here. It was some one’s experience (not his philosophical theory), apart from it being the experience of none other than arguably the world’s greatest ever psychologist (hence my quoting none other than him) and I know others have posted quotes before and just now flipping through “Buddha Dhamma for an Inquiring Mind” in Questions About Puredhamma Posts Forum I came across the following (dated April 13th)
“I saw someone commmented in a Youtube video. I shall reproduce his comments here:”
“Another commenter has much better wisdom:”Hence my being prompted to write. I had to interrupt my reading.There will be other instances, but I shall not bother.
I was only being consistent with that, with what had been accepted before. If now my attitude be again compared to that of a lawyer, I have to remind you (sorry about it) that a lawyer splits hairs only to his own advantage, and will do so to win a case even when he knows perfectly well that his client is in fact guilty. My only aim is that I contribute what I know, so that others may form their own opinion of it. In this particular case, it was to provide a basis for comparison of what Vilas had experienced to that which Jung had.
ever so grateful
Thank you Lal;
I asked Vilas the question because I was asking myself whether he, in that state, was in fact approaching a brahma realm, but had doubts about it because I do not know how a human gandhabba can fit in with the ‘instantaneous opapatika birth’method into such realms (from a human bhava).
The question itself arose from my having read of a ‘vision’ K.G.Jung had experienced after having suffered a heart attack in 1944. It is found in Chapter X titled .Visions’of his autobiography ‘Memories, Dreams and Reflections’. Other experiences of his mentioned in the same work are equally compelling.
I reproduce the relevant excerpt in a separate post immediately following so as not to scare readers away from passing over even this one in the process!
grateful as ever
“…I was able to understand how my inner body or gandhabba WOULD look. I was not out of body at this time… was able to understand or VISUALIZE on how mine would be.” Capitals mine.
Alright, Vilas – that settles it. Thank you. I wish I could say I would like to experience this myself, but cannot even say so, because if I were ready for it (like you are) I would have experienced it already – barring, of course, in circumstances when the gandhabba is FORCED OUT as in NDE’s etc.
Yes I do have a further question, if I may:
“and it did seem to be very light and in a happy state… was in a very calm place from where I did not want to return!”
How ‘high up’ were you when you were ‘in that happy state’, do you remember?From that place from where you did not want to return? For gandhabbas restricted to the human plane are not in what may be described a happy state at all; they are craving a human body and envy those in them who are enjoying what they themselves are missing. They do not want to stay there.
Thank you Vilas,
much Metta
Hello Vilaskadival,
Thank you for sharing. I find this very interesting, to say the least. However, one thing you said has raised a question, as Lal pointed out:
“You saw your own physical body AND that of YOUR gandhabba (manomaya kaya)?”
Does your reply to the effect that “…was able to see how the manomaya kaya in my body looks” then mean: you were seeing both your physical body AND the manomakaya from above. Is that how it was? Because in that case, the question arises: if you were seeing both from above, then who was doing the seeing?
To illustrate, you say in your last post: ‘ but in 1995 I had this experience of coming out of body and could see my body from above.’ Here it is clear that ‘you’ were, or were in, the manomaya kaya.
I suspect there is something amiss in the way you are describing it. No offence meant, of course. Can you please clarify?
Metta
Lal:
With regard to the last para of my last post, you stated in: working-towards-good-rebirths/kamma-debt-and-meditation/ #8:
“(Actually, the Buddha has said that if one does the Ariya metta mediation frequently, one could pay off the debts associated with the kamaloka (first 11 realms); more on that in a future post”.
I am NOT asking for references from the Tipitaka. I see from another forum topic that you are already occupied enough with that at the moment! Nor that you write a full post about it. Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on it off the top of your head when you find the time. I am sure you see the connection.
Ever grateful
Tien.
I am sincerely moved by this experience of yours, and am happy for you and for whoever else is likewise touched by it. No less so for your gratitude (extreme, limitless gratitude, would be the term, but I know of no single word for it) of Lal’s great work here.
For some weeks now I have been meaning to share my own experiences as to how I go about practicing Metta Bhavana, and this opportunity has now arisen, thanks to you. What I do is a combination of both Metta Bhavana and Pattidana.
Here it is relevant to know that up to a few years ago, I had this habit of flushing any crawling bug that happened to wander into my bedroom in the toilet. One day, right after I had done so with a slug, I stopped, motionless like a statue. I knew on the spot (in both senses) that that would be the last time. Since that day I keep an empty cardboard box waiting there to slide any crawling thing into and in which to then take it outdoors. Mosquitoes I still kill – if they survive the vapour-releasing mats I have in the room. I have however given thought to even this; they (only pregnant females bite, I read) need the blood for the reproduction process going on inside them. Their intention is not to cause others pain and harm at all, BUT the bite may be infectious, and I have suffered from a number of those in the past. So the accompanying thought, but with feeling and genuine concern attached, is : ‘sorry, fellow beings, I HAVE to do this; it will be quick and painless. In no time at all you will be in another body. Pardon me for the trouble’ .
I was saying: my Metta bhavana /Pattidana goes like this. I know that I am there ready to transmit this loving-kindness. I allow this Metta to swell for a while. When I can truly feel it – now it is not just a thought, I can feel that there is some power, some energy there, ready to be released – I see it in the form, but much smaller, of a light bulb or similar which emits photons of light in ALL directions (not the conventional 6 directions; I know the idea is the same). Now first I see where that Metta is reaching out to: literally everywhere- all inhabited planets and their 31 realms in any galaxy throughout infinite space, and instantly. My thought-words run something like: may all beings come to see how to free themselves from suffering, starting from the worst types and gradually further until they are free from all suffering, physical, emotional and mental. Even where a Buddha has not appeared in ages, may those beings there at least abstain from moral wrong-doing by deed, speech and mind and attain at least temporary relief in happier states of existence until that time when Dhamma becomes available there. Where their suffering consists in having to pay debts due to me, I forgive those debts. Where it I who owe them, for services rendered or wrongs committed,I hereby transfer to them all merits due to me ,so they will have at least one reason less for prolonging their stay in sansara.
This is more or less what is in my mind and heart. Of course, it is not memorized. I place emphasis on what words come at any given moment as a result of a particular detail in a thought/feeling. I try as much as possible not to use Pali words (only those I feel I have a full comprehension of) as I can express, even to myself, what I ‘have’ at any moment much better in English. At the end the thought-words are gone and only an ‘overall feeling’ remains. I stay there until the feeling dissipates.
After this is done, I see how much more I am getting than this little that I am giving. Beings are literally numberless in the universe(s) and as beings on this planet do Metta and Pattidana, so must others be doing right now on other planets. So I open up to that. I am getting so much more than I am giving. It almost seems unfair. I have reflected further on this (NOT during the meditation- too much ‘cold mind’): |Really and truly, in an infinite Existence, those doing meditations will be equally infinite, but even given only the estimated number of galaxies and the estimated number of stars in galaxies and taking a resultant average and the possible ratio of inhabited to (temporarily)uninhabited planets, a very, very conservative 1: 10,000, the number of beings engaged in meditation (and that where Dhamma IS available, which is the most significant minimizing factor and the one which prevents me from doing a true mathematical calculation) would still run into billions, I feel.
” I lost my Kama Raga.”
“I feel deeply grateful for the Pure Dhamma that Lal teaches. I wish, with whole of my heart, Lal will soon attain Nibbana, in this lifeI am so glad that you have. I likewise wish Lal the same as you do. As to myself, I have not lost Kama Raga yet. A subtle strain of it remains and that because of attachment, I know. Therefore I do not aim beyond the Sakadagami stage for the time being (‘time’ in the sansaric sense of the word) of course.
Much Metta to all
Thank you for the explanation Lal,
“I have no problem of having faith in what Waharaka Thero taught”
…and I have no problem having faith in the teaching you are spreading Lal. It is not flattery. That goes too for anyone who has attained any stage of magga phala. You have corrected yourself on several occasions, and in most cases it was only a question of a modification to or a refinement of what you had stated originally, and sometimes even of an obvious slip in spelling or format.
“It is also not necessary to learn all these details about how the mind works, in order to attain any magga phala. If one can grasp the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature, that is all that is needed.” THIS, as always, above all. Thank you for ever reminding us of it.
Ever so grateful
Hello Student:
I had typed exactly what SengKiat is suggesting but had to leave the keyboard. Purpose served all the same. I had however added to refer also to the Q & A ‘s in the forum AFTER that. People come up with ideas and questions based on their own understanding and I do not see why it will be any different with you.
As you have seen already by now, we are all here to help, each according to his/her level of understanding. It is much. Just how much you will find out soon enough if you keep at it. Be grateful. There is a way out. But it will be YOUR doing; (even) Buddhas can only point the way.
Much Metta
Student,
My apologies for replying so late.
Normally I do this on purpose (not in this case though; I was kept away from home by unforeseen circumstances) to allow for the possibility that the replies of others may, first: see the question from a higher, or at least either from a totally different or a more comprehensive, perspective than mine ; and second: that that in turn may indicate to me anything in my reply that was not quite correct ( I am a student too !) – then I can formulate my subsequent answers better, both to my own satisfaction, but more importantly, to the fuller benefit of the questioner.
You ask what the lesson is for you from what I said. Now please read ‘from what we said’. Lal and Tobias have expounded on it, the latter rendering some key points into Dhamma terminology. -” Lal: ‘They are the ones who gave you chance to be human.’ My second para was all about this. That is where being ‘too high in the head’ is a hindrance. It blocks the heart. Now it NEED NOT to. But from where most of us stand, it does. Even given that they may be complete idiots, still, think of all they have done for you. Who else can give you so much?
I mentioned elsewhere that ‘the seat of the mind and that of the heart’ lie close together’ I learned this only from Dhamma, or, I should say, I learned about it only from Dhamma. I knew it when I experienced it. The Buddha was the All-Knowing One as well as the ALL-Compassionate One (though that knowing was not the result of hard thinking, but of SEEING, after the entire process of purification had cleared the way- the intelligence came in after as a tool, as it were,in order to formulate and expound it all into intelligible language). This is what I get . Someone correct me if that is not (quite) so.
So the point I would like to get across, Student,is , quoting Lal: No matter how much we accomplish based on just the intelligence, that cannot provide a long-term solution to the “problem of life” The solution to that ‘problem of life’ involves both the head and the heart, thinking and feeling. One gets to the point where one ‘feels’ one’s thoughts. Tobias has it all in two lines, and as a practical course of action to follow I cannot do any better: ‘Dosa needs the opposite, which is metta (loving kindness). You should cultivate metta bhavana over time’
Much Metta
Student,
‘pitted against idiots’ you say, Student? And do you think that is by chance? Or worse, by some error? The first is out of the question, and if it were the second you would have left your mother’s womb even before birth.
As to the hatred of your parents…hatred , outright, unmitigated hatred is a harsh word. Do you know how much time it took to ‘choose’ (unknown to even yourself) your mother out of the vast number of women waiting to become mothers? The conditions you are in now give you the opportunity, ARE the very opportunity, to tackle these two problems of big-headedness or high-mindedness and, in your case, (the resultant) sense of hatred towards one and all.
I had this problem myself in my teenage years; the first ,not the one of hatred (to be sure). I saw myself as too intelligent compared to those around me. (In primary school the principals had me ‘skip’ a year because I was too advanced for the other boys my age). Then something happened in my personal life that caused me see myself as the most miserable of creatures – shattered, broken with no interest in any future, wanting to die. My ‘intelligence’ did not help. It may in fact have been the cause, at least to some degree. Lesson learnt.
I think you get it
Much Metta
firewns:
…and you must pardon me for not replying at all. After Akvan’s and Lal’s replies there was no need to. Not that I would have supplied answers like that had I written before they did (please do not get me wrong)…more that anything I would have said would have been insignificant in comparison.
I would here like though to take the idea of the sponsoring of Dhamma books for free distribution further. From this point on I address also:
Lal:
Seng Kiat :
Akvan:and the rest of the participants on, and also readers of, this site:
There are still many people who prefer reading a book rather than access its contents on the internet. As most of us have come to see for themselves, Dhamma is indeed the greatest of gifts. It changes one’s whole attitude towards life, and, if followed, prevents suffering in the short, but most importantly, in the long run..and when one contemplates on just how long that may be, it becomes an urge, an irresistible urge, almost in the sense of a duty (and with some it HAS become a duty, I appreciate) to help others as much as possible to attain to the same deliverance, or to at least help them onto that Path.
Now also a sense of urgency arises when one knows that most beings now in the human realm may not get another chance to hear about Dhamma, not in this mahakalpa at least, let alone follow the Path….even as it is, most do not hear about IT, either because of geographical location, illiteracy, adverse living conditions etc…and the thought ‘and this when Dhamma IS being proclaimed.! It is a situation that should impel those who have become aware of all this to do what they can about it in whatever way possible and however little it may seem at face value.
I now leave it to others to come up with ideas on how we can go about making this happen. As to myself, I am willing to contribute my bit, but that bit will also be the most I can do.
Metta to all
