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In the post quoted, reference is twice made to ‘NOTE 3’:
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- Brahma Parisajja deva Jhanic bliss in this and higher realms. First jhana (minor) 1/3 MK (Note 3)
- Arupa Loka (Immaterial Realms); see Note 3.
But at the end Note 2 is followed by Note 4. There is no Note 3.
One other observation about the mind, apart from there being ‘no mind’ at times (when the mid is ‘a blank’), and from the arising of citta ‘when at least one thought object comes to any one of the six (not just five) senses’ , is that no thought stream that arises is permanently there. To elucidate:
Sometimes the attraction to either an object, a person or even an idea (Dhamma for instance) is so powerful that we identify with that to the extent that we think: ‘yes, this is what I want, I want to remain in this state along with these feelings. This is what I am. This is what I want to be forever.’ Yet after some time, it could be days, weeks or more, we find that we ‘are not that’anymore. The intensity of the attraction and the time that had been spent at it in the past serves, however, to bring it back again sooner or later, how sooner or how later again depending on how much of ourselves we had given to it previously. In this sense I feel that the mind is ‘a traitor’ because it will not hang on to what we wanted to hang on to. But it works the other way around as well: sometimes it seems impossible to stop thinking of an obnoxious person, for instance, and we fear that now we will remain stuck with that person in mind. But soon enough the mind is now’a liberator’ – all thoughts of that person are gone.
Years ago I used to say: if the pleasant did not pass, nor would the unpleasant.
I woke up woke one morning and was amazed to find that I had no idea where I was or who I was. You may also say I was amazed at not finding myself. I must have been in my late teens or early twenties.
Everything around seemed new, unknown. My memory was gone completely: my name, my identity, my past….everything. A clean slate. So you may say that in this case only 5 senses were there, and the sixth…well, the memory section of that was gone. The thinking and evaluating part was still there.
Inside 30 seconds or so ‘I’ was back.
13 “.In the same way, we want to “feed a good viññāna“, say to act kindly towards other people and animals. So, we should INCREASE vaci and sankhāra generation: generate more compassionate thoughts and engage in compassionate activities like giving.”
!!
I had missed this part. If I hadn’t I would not even have had cause to comment in the first place. Please accept my apologies.
The Buddha spoke highly of those who had attained even the lower stages of the Path :’ so-and-so, through… has appeared in such-and-such a realm..(and will attain Nibbana from there).’ So it is not that much of a complex issue.
“It is a gradual process to get there, and each person will progress in one’s own way.” summarizes it, when ‘gradual’ is applied to both this life AND in the sansaric sense.
Metta
“….seeing the futility of certain activities and that really depends on the individual. One may not yet be an Anagami……”
This is so true. Even as a child I steered away from fiction, and for many years now I find all material objects, including the body,as necessary evils that must somehow be dealt with, things in the way, let alone getting attached to them. Yet I know I am not an Anagami.
This is just to share.
Thank you Johnny, Lal
Yes Johnny, that is what I meant.
But kamaloka is abandoned in steps until one is an Anagami. Most of us are not there yet. I know I am not.
So doing abhisankhara with less hold on coarse sense pleasues,leading to higher realms in kama loka (WITH magga phala)is not bad, though not the ultimate.
Metta to you and to all.
Johnny is talking here about vaci sankhara for an ‘upcoming vacation, anticipating what he could possibly see and enjoy.”
There is no apunnaabhisankhara involved, no vaci sankhara like for murders and suicide bombings etc.is generated. Besides that there is ‘neutral’ abhisankhara (just like Johnny refers to); apunnabhisankhara; but also punnabhisankhara, say, about getting up in the morning and looking forward to doing a good deed and generating benevolent, wholesome thoughts WITH vaci sankhara involved. But vaci sankhara is said to be bad.
From # 5 of the most recent post:
“- If it is something we like, it may be hard to stop thinking about it, i.e., it may take will power.
– That is what is involved in Ānāpāna/Satipatthāna: stopping bad vaci sankhāra.”Why must ‘something we like’ be BAD, and therefore also the vaci sankhara that follow?
It is true that even punnabhisankhara leaves one chained to the rebirth process, but progress is gradual. There cannot be many right on the cusp of Arahanthood.
That is the idea I had.
13.4 has ‘blamelessness'(anupavajjata) instead of the straightforward ‘Arahant’
Thank you Lal
Dhamma 123,
It would be presumptuous of me to hope to ‘go one better’ than Lal trying to get you to understand this. So I can ‘interevene’ only to say:
Lal understands DHAMMA correctly, and based on that says that Buddha never gave his consent to violence in ANY circumstance. I see you have difficulty accepting that.
I suggest you take a neutral stand for the time being, not insisting that violence in self-defence may be justifiable, not accepting that it is not. Let go of it completely for a few days. Then it may happen that a significant point or aspect of it pops up in your mind uninvited. THEN get back.
May you attain peace!
The choice is this:
Go along with this world and to this world you return. Go the Way of the Buddhas and transcend it. Gradually. Even that will involve pain, but an end of pain will be in sight.
Never mind Bhikkhus. One starts from the point one is at, where else can one start? One concentrates on one’s own thoughts, speech and actions. How can one help what others think, say and do?
Those who are ready and willing to be helped in this greatest of struggles WILL get that help from Ariyas.
Metta
Yeos,
Say someone strikes you or robs you. In both cases it is an act of violence on the other part. The natural (survival) instinct is to hit back or snatch back what you have been robbed of.
Now it is up to you to not let it become violence on your part as well by retaliating. The other is responsible for his actions, you for your own. Of course, this takes mindfulness. If you ‘take it on the cheek’ and do not re-act the matter is finished there and then. (The thought may arise: since this has happened to me, I must deserve it). Feeling compassion for the other is even going further:
‘Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal’
“Na hi verena verāni sammantīdha kudācanaṃ
Averena ca sammanti esa dhammo sanantano.” (Dhammapada v.5)If you do re-act the tit-for-tat will continue into the future. Dhp v. 5 shows how to put an end to it.
Metta
I do not see how this makes a difference, Tobias.
A few days after the zygote is formed, inside or outside the womb, the gandhabba enters. The gatis of the donor or donors are there in the spermatozoa and in the ovum in either case.
I of course stand to be corrected.
P.S It is of more concern what the state of a frozen EMBRYO is , that is, once the gandhabba has entered. Will the ‘mind-component’, as you have it, that is, the gandhabba ,frozen for all that time?
Metta
Upekkha,
Please allow me to make one final comment:
If to you it is clear, or becomes clear,that whatever an Arahant is made of cannot be defiled, in whole or in part,then words, and the meaning of the components of those words, is of no importance. The ‘vinnana’ of an Arahant IS undefiled, just because the ‘vinnana’ of an Arahant CANNOT be defiled. He has gone through all four stages of the Path, He is perfected: ‘Birth is ended….’ How can there still be any trace of defilement in Him?
All the trouble I myself took going into the ‘vi’, defiled, tainted etc was just trying to find a fitting interpretation of how the word ‘vinnana’ could apply to an Arahant. But I was never in any doubt, in whatever way the word ‘vinnana’ may apply to an Arahant.
Metta to all
In just two lines: “there is no upadana (or cravings) for any of the five aggregates for an Arahant. PANCHAKKHANDA IS THERE, but no pancaupadanakkhandha.”
Thanks Lal
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