Connection Between Sankhāra and Viññāna

Welcome! Forums Questions About Puredhamma Posts Connection Between Sankhāra and Viññāna

This topic contains 10 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Lal 2 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #21338

    Johnny_Lim
    Participant

    A person is constantly generating thoughts about his upcoming vacation, anticipating what he could possibly see and enjoy.

    In the standard Paticca Samuppāda steps, it would be

    sankhāra <—> viññāna <—> nāmarūpa

    If we want to be more precise, can the Paticca Samuppāda steps be rewritten for the above scenario as such?

    vacī sankhāra <—> manō viññāna <—> nāmarūpa

  • #21339

    Lal
    Keymaster

    Yes, Johnny.
    That is a good way to express it.
    Most people do not realize how harmful these vaci sankhara or “day dreaming” are.

  • #21340

    Johnny_Lim
    Participant

    Thanks Lal! Now I have a clearer picture of the whole thing.

  • #21341

    y not
    Participant

    Johnny is talking here about vaci sankhara for an ‘upcoming vacation, anticipating what he could possibly see and enjoy.”

    There is no apunnaabhisankhara involved, no vaci sankhara like for murders and suicide bombings etc.is generated. Besides that there is ‘neutral’ abhisankhara (just like Johnny refers to); apunnabhisankhara; but also punnabhisankhara, say, about getting up in the morning and looking forward to doing a good deed and generating benevolent, wholesome thoughts WITH vaci sankhara involved. But vaci sankhara is said to be bad.

    From # 5 of the most recent post:
    “- If it is something we like, it may be hard to stop thinking about it, i.e., it may take will power.
    – That is what is involved in Ānāpāna/Satipatthāna: stopping bad vaci sankhāra.”

    Why must ‘something we like’ be BAD, and therefore also the vaci sankhara that follow?

    It is true that even punnabhisankhara leaves one chained to the rebirth process, but progress is gradual. There cannot be many right on the cusp of Arahanthood.

    • #21344

      Johnny_Lim
      Participant

      Hi y not,

      I think thoughts of something that we like are still worldly thoughts that chain us to kamaloka relentlessly. I would think of those vacī sankhāra as a prelude to the arising of mental sustenance that eventually follows for our cravings to feed on.

  • #21345

    y not
    Participant

    Yes Johnny, that is what I meant.

    But kamaloka is abandoned in steps until one is an Anagami. Most of us are not there yet. I know I am not.

    So doing abhisankhara with less hold on coarse sense pleasues,leading to higher realms in kama loka (WITH magga phala)is not bad, though not the ultimate.

    Metta to you and to all.

  • #21346

    Lal
    Keymaster

    This is a bit complex issue.

    The key is that each person will who is on the Path will start seeing the futility of certain activities and that really depends on the individual. One may not yet be an Anagami, but one may see the futility of reading fiction, for example, as I did long ago.
    – Another person may still like to read fiction, but may lose the desire to watch TV, for example.

    It is not that one loses all kama raga at the moment of attaining the Anagami stage. One will lose the last bits of leftovers at the at moment.

    Eventually, one sees the unfruitfulness of doing any types of sankhara, when getting “sabba sankharesu anicca sanna” at the Arahant stage.
    – That is what is meant by, “Sabbe sankhara anicca“.
    – As I mentioned in a previous posting, An Arahant lives only for the benefit of others. He/she can only see the futility of any worldly action. Of course, most of us cannot even begin to comprehend that. And one should not try either.

    It is a gradual process to get there, and each person will progress in one’s own way.

  • #21347

    y not
    Participant

    “….seeing the futility of certain activities and that really depends on the individual. One may not yet be an Anagami……”

    This is so true. Even as a child I steered away from fiction, and for many years now I find all material objects, including the body,as necessary evils that must somehow be dealt with, things in the way, let alone getting attached to them. Yet I know I am not an Anagami.

    This is just to share.

    Thank you Johnny, Lal

  • #21348

    y not
    Participant

    13 “.In the same way, we want to “feed a good viññāna“, say to act kindly towards other people and animals. So, we should INCREASE vaci and sankhāra generation: generate more compassionate thoughts and engage in compassionate activities like giving.”

    !!

    I had missed this part. If I hadn’t I would not even have had cause to comment in the first place. Please accept my apologies.

    The Buddha spoke highly of those who had attained even the lower stages of the Path :’ so-and-so, through… has appeared in such-and-such a realm..(and will attain Nibbana from there).’ So it is not that much of a complex issue.

    “It is a gradual process to get there, and each person will progress in one’s own way.” summarizes it, when ‘gradual’ is applied to both this life AND in the sansaric sense.

    Metta

    • #21349

      Johnny_Lim
      Participant

      “generate more compassionate thoughts and engage in compassionate activities like giving.”

      So long a person is still attached to the 5 khandhas, however strong the moral deeds he has done, will still bound him to the rebirth cycle. But of course, he is increasing his chances of securing more favourable rebirths from his moral deeds. It is however, a risky investment because we cannot always be so lucky to be reborn under favourable conditions where there is a chance to encounter Buddha Dhamma and continue with the spiritual practice. The safety net then would be to strive hard and attain stream entry in this very life.

  • #21351

    Lal
    Keymaster

    “generate more compassionate thoughts and engage in compassionate activities like giving.”

    This can happen in two ways:
    1. One may do all this with future expectations for a “good birth” (such a person would be on the mundane path).
    2. One may still do those things after getting on the Noble Path, i.e., after comprehending Tilakkhana at least to some extent).

    In both cases, compassion is likely to be involved to at least some extent.

    The Buddha said EVERYONE should be engaging in such activities. Punna kamma are not be afraid of. They will never be a hindrance to one’s progress.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.