Advice to Channa – Channovādasutta; MN 144

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  • #21309

    y not
    Participant

    Advice to Channa – Channovādasutta; MN 144

    I have doubts about the translation here.
    suttacentral.net/mn144/en/sujato

    Summary of the sutta as it stands in English:

    Venerable Channa is in intense pain. Exhortations by Ven,’s Sariputta and Mahachunda fail to convince him to persevere.
    – To Ven. Sariputta: (5.10)” Reverend Sāriputta, I will slit my wrists. I don’t wish to live.”
    “Satthaṃ, āvuso sāriputta, āharissāmi, nāvakaṅkhāmi jīvitan”ti.”

    • And later:(7.6) “You should remember this: ‘The mendicant Channa slit his wrists BLAMELESSLY.”
      “Anupavajjaṃ channo bhikkhu satthaṃ āharissatī’ti evametaṃ, āvuso sāriputta, dhārehī”ti “

    (12.1) Not long after those venerables had left, Venerable Channa slit his wrists.
    Atha kho āyasmā channo acirapakkante āyasmante ca sāriputte āyasmante ca mahācundesatthaṃ āharesi.

    Verses 13.1 through 13.13 have the Buddha confirm that Ven. Channa indeed ‘slit his wrists BLAMELESSLY’.

    Question is this: It would appear that Ven. Channa is an Arahant; if so, is suicide alright for Arahants? Sorry to have to put it this crudely. The word ‘sattam’ is given to mean any of: a science, an art, a lore,a knife, a lance. I am more apt to think that he made use of ‘a science’ (a mental one) to quit the body. Still, it is voluntarily putting an end to one’s material existence.

  • #21311

    Lal
    Keymaster
    1. Ven. Channa was very sick and was in great pain.
    2. When he told Ven. Sariputta that he was going to commit suicide, Ven. Sariputta tried to prevent it, because he suspected that Ven. Channa was not an Arahant.

    3. He actually questioned Ven. Channa to figure out whether he was an Arahant. Even though Ven. Channa told him directly that he was an Arahant, Ven. Sariputta apparently did not believe it.

    4. When Ven. Channa committed suicide, Ven. Sariputta went and asked the Buddha what his next birth and gati were. Buddha asked Ven. Sariputta, “did not Ven. Channa tell you that he was an Arahant?”.

    – Ven. Sariputta says he suspected Ven. Channa was not an Arahant because he had close ties to his family.
    – The Buddha said Ven. Channa was indeed an Arahant and was not reborn anywhere in the 31 realms.

    There was no point in living with such pain. Arahants live only for the benefit of others.

  • #21313

    y not
    Participant

    That is the idea I had.

    13.4 has ‘blamelessness'(anupavajjata) instead of the straightforward ‘Arahant’

    Thank you Lal

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