[upekkha100]

Oh so then when the Sutta said a whiff of metta and with a confident mind going to the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha for refuge this is meant for Ariyas and not anariyas

[upekkha100]

Thanks Lal. I have three more questions.

1) What does “even just one whiff of” mean from the following quote? Does it mean how long it takes to take a whiff, so like even a FEW SECONDS of metta is greatly meritorious?

Quote:
“If one were to develop even just one whiff of a heart of good will, that would be more fruitful than… if one with a confident mind were to undertake the training rules”

2) Can the following quote be a merit earned by an anariya/putthujana or can only an Ariya earn it? Anyone even an anariya if cultivates even a whiff of metta it would be greatly meritorious for that anariya?

Quote:
“If one were to develop even just one whiff of a heart of good will, that would be more fruitful than… if one with a confident mind were to undertake the training rules”

3) Can the following quote be a merit earned by an anariya/putthujana or can only an Ariya earn it? Anyone even an anariya if with a  with a confident mind were to go to the Buddha, Dhamma, & Sangha for refuge it would be greatly meritorious for that anariya?

Quote:
“If one with a confident mind were to go to the Buddha, Dhamma, & Sangha for refuge, that would be more fruitful than… if one were to have a dwelling built and dedicated to the Community of the four directions.”

[upekkha100]

Mara is a deva from thge highest deva realm but he is often called a demon(to be clear there is an actual sentient being called Mara who is a deva and also kilesa mara which is the defilements of our own minds, he has been said to be the personification of these defilements. I have seen him being compared to as the Buddhist devil and satan before if I remember correctly.  A being who wants to deter someones virtue and ultimate goal like he tried to do with the Buddha. There are other devas like Mara. So if people do black magic it would more likely to me deal with devas and not petas. Just to give more examples it is most likely devas and not those in dugati:
1) those in dugati are suffering and helpless and most likely have no magic nor power. Devas have power though.
2) In Islam black magic is done by jinns. Jinns are the closest thing to devas, similar superpowers too. There are both good jinns and bad jinns, just as there are both good or bad devas and humans. Highest jinn is Ibliss, or Islamic Satan/devil
3) in Christianity I believe black magic is done by demons. In Christianity there are good angels and bad angels. Bad ones are called fallen angels and sometimes called demonic, even Satan once the highest angel is called devil. Just as Mara is in the highest deva realm and with the most powers and also inclination to corrupt people and challenge the Buddha just like Christian Satan challenge Jesus and Islamic Satan. Just trying to point out interesting paralells to Mara in Buddhism to Christian Satan and Islamic Satan, or other Satan characters in other cultures. I’m sure someone has written a book or article on these paralells already. Point was it is most likely malevolent devas like Mara who do this.

You ask:
“Does the Buddha mention these practices”, here is a sutta relating to your topic:
Kevatta Sutta DN11

You bring up an interesting topic. I’m just wondering how does one undo black magic  or break free from black magic being done by devas on the order oh humans.

[upekkha100]

Also from this PureDhamma post:
The Sōtapanna Stage

Here is the part about the Sabbasava Sutta:

“Key Points from the Sabbāsava Sutta

The key to attaining Nibbāna is to remove the āsavas (residue from fermentation of bad thoughts/habits over many sansaricbirths). This will be discussed under the key Dhamma Concepts.

In the Sabbāsava Sutta, the Buddha listed seven steps to remove the āsavas and to purify the mind thus paving the way to Nibbāna.  These seven steps are listed below:

1. Removal by clear vision (“dassanena pahathabba”, where dassana is vision and pahathabba is removal). This is clear understanding of anicca, dukkha, anatta.

2. Removal by  the restrained use of the senses (“sanvarena pahathabba”, wheresanvara is disciplined use of the sense faculties: not to over-indulge in the senses).

3. Removal by good and frequent associations (“patisevana pahathabba”, where sevana is association: for example, with good friends and good deeds).

4. Removal by tolerance and patience (“adhivasana pahathabba”). For example, even if one is tempted to steal because one is hungry, one should contemplate the consequences and bear the hunger.

5. Removal by staying clear of “bad influences and environments” (“parivajjana pahathabba”). One needs to avoid bad friends, bad locations for living (due to floods, bad neighbors, etc), avoiding unsuitable times to go out, etc.

6. Removal by getting rid of certain things (“vinodana pahathabba”). One needs to get rid of bad thoughts that come to mind, for example, for excessive sense pleasure, hate, etc.

7. Removal by meditation (“bhavana pahathabba”). When one has the clear vision in #1, it becomes apparent what to contemplate on.”

When applied in real life practically and consistently, those techniques work.

[upekkha100]

Hi Siebe.

If that method does not seem beneficial, what about khanti(enduring, forbearing, tolerance, patience)?

And what about the 7 techniques outlined in the Sabbasava Sutta?

Sabbasava Sutta MN 2 (All asavas/defilements)

Sutta description:
“The diverse problems of the spiritual journey demand a diverse range of responses. Rather than applying the same solution to every problem, the Buddha outlines seven methods of dealing with defilements, each of which works in certain cases.”

Here are the specific ones that might be useful to you:
” 2. Defilements Given Up by Restraint

And what are the defilements that should be given up by restraint? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, lives restraining the faculty of the eye. For the distressing and feverish defilements that might arise in someone who lives without restraint of the eye faculty do not arise when there is such restraint. Reflecting properly, they live restraining the faculty of the ear … the nose … the tongue … the body … the mind. For the distressing and feverish defilements that might arise in someone who lives without restraint of the mind faculty do not arise when there is such restraint.

For the distressing and feverish defilements that might arise in someone who lives without restraint do not arise when there is such restraint. These are called the defilements that should be given up by restraint.

4. Defilements Given Up by Enduring

And what are the defilements that should be given up by enduring? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, endures cold, heat, hunger, and thirst. They endure the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles. They endure rude and unwelcome criticism. And they put up with physical pain—sharp, severe, acute, unpleasant, disagreeable, and life-threatening.

For the distressing and feverish defilements that might arise in someone who lives without enduring these things do not arise when they are endured. These are called the defilements that should be given up by enduring.

5. Defilements Given Up by Avoiding

And what are the defilements that should be given up by avoiding? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, avoids a wild elephant, a wild horse, a wild ox, a wild dog, a snake, a stump, thorny ground, a pit, a cliff, a swamp, and a sewer. Reflecting properly, they avoid sitting on inappropriate seats, walking in inappropriate neighborhoods, and mixing with bad friends—whatever sensible spiritual companions would believe to be a bad setting.

For the distressing and feverish defilements that might arise in someone who lives without avoiding these things do not arise when they are avoided. These are called the defilements that should be given up by avoiding.

6. Defilements Given Up by Dispelling

And what are the defilements that should be given up by dispelling? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, doesn’t tolerate a sensual, malicious, or cruel thought that has arisen, but gives it up, gets rid of it, eliminates it, and obliterates it. They don’t tolerate any bad, unskillful qualities that have arisen, but give them up, get rid of them, eliminate them, and obliterate them.

For the distressing and feverish defilements that might arise in someone who lives without dispelling these things do not arise when they are dispelled. These are called the defilements that should be given up by dispelling.”

[upekkha100]

Lal wrote:
-“This does not mean a saddhānusārī will attain the Sotāpanna stage within that lifetime. ”

-“So, basically, a Sōtapanna Anugāmi may be born many times a human until getting to the Sōtapanna stage (may even have many human bhava, each with many human jāti). ”

That makes me wonder about the time when the Buddha was here. What if those who were able to attain Sotapanna stage and other stages of magga phala so quickly(more quickly than others) were not mere puthujjana, but were already Sotapanna Anugami, hence why they needed just a bit more push. And those who took longer were puthujjana, not even Sotapanna Anugami yet.

[upekkha100]

Hi Dr. J Chakma. You seem to have a deep understanding of Abhidhamma. You explained it in an understandable way as does Lal. Thank you. Please don’t hesitate to post more often if you can. This goes for other members as well. It seems this site has many readers but not much who post on the forum. I think maybe because they feel reluctant to post thinking they might get something wrong(but as Lal said we all make mistakes, we’ll just point them out and try to correct them if we notice any inconsistencies/contradictions), when in reality they could also have a different/unique way of explaining something. You may not know it but your input could very well be beneficial/useful/helpful to others.

[upekkha100]

Benefits of Metta/karuna cultivation:
-Reduction/weakening of dosa
-Metta is considered a kind of giving. Thus it is dana. Thus opposite of lobha. Thus it would not only weaken/reduce dosa but weaken/reduce lobha as well. That’s 2/3 akusala mula.
-Cultivating metta and karuna weakens or perhaps even totally delete many past bad kamma. Sharing the merits also has the same effect.
-Not only weaken/delete past bad kamma. But is highly meritorious. Merit=good kamma. Good kamma=blessings/protection/good luck/miracles. You’ve heard stories of sick people getting miraculously cured. Miracles are nothing more than peoples’ past good kamma coming to fruition. What you and I are going through now is probably a bad kamma vipaka. Hopefully doing this could cut its duration shorter than it was supposed to be.

11 Benefits of metta
Metta (Mettanisamsa) Sutta

Just how meritorious metta is:
Velāma Sutta

All this is to encourage others like me who whenever hear the advise of “metta/karuna” would not totally heed it but neglect it or are slacking off on cultivating it. Majority of the bhavana was informal, not even formal. Did not even take that long, just divided into at least 3 times throughout the day. I want to show it has clear results. I’ve experienced them. And it’s only been three months. I wonder what the results will be one year from now.

Siebe, if you feel you want to share more and just talk about your situation, and think it might not be suitable for the forum, I’m here to hear you out, you are welcome to contact me by email: [email protected]

[upekkha100]

So I revamped my methods.
Karuna bhavana procedure:
1) I can’t just do the bhavana here and there, skip some days, just do it when I feel likenit. Be strict about it. Do it everyday. Not skip.
2) 3 times or more per day. As much as possible throughout the day
3) Not mechanically, with no feeling. Each good will, not only one of them, recited it in a way so that I sense/feel the karuna. So that the karuna bhavana actually counts.
4) Share the merits of that karuna bhavana and all of my good deeds with all sentient beings.

One of my strategies to induce/trigger karuna is thinking or watching others suffering. Then recite the good wills. The suffering could be real or even fiction. Like your favorite movie, show, book, etc, where you saw a really heart wrenching event that made you cry. I imagine we’ve all been through something like this fictional character and worse many times rebirth after rebirth. It really works. At least for me it does. I feel the karuna within me. When I do this my karuna bhavana and recital of the good wills is a success. I can see the stark difference between this and when I don’t think about others suffering.

And a side note. The karuna bhavana does not have to be formal, like when sitting down. But whenever you get the chance(after you wake up, before you sleep, before eating, before drinking water, before brushing your teeth). Just choose 3 short wishes that really induce your compassion, and then wish it for all sentient beings.

The Okkha sutta says between someone serving food once in morning, once midday, and once evening vs someone radiating even a little bit of metta once in morning, once midday, and once in the evening-the latter would be more fruitful.

Okkha Sutta: Serving Dishes
“”Staying at Savatthi. “Monks, if someone were to give a gift of one hundred serving dishes [of food] in the morning, one hundred at mid-day, and one hundred in the evening; and another person were to develop a mind of good-will — even for the time it takes to pull on a cow’s udder — in the morning, again at mid-day, and again in the evening, this [the second action] would be more fruitful than that [the first].”

I’ve been doing this for about the past 3 months, and also sharing the merits of my good deeds and bhavana with all sentient beings everyday, pretty strict to the routine.

And these are the results/clear changes within me:
For the first time after a long while:
1) Momentary awareness has improved. When doing everyday tasks, I am more able to focus on that task.
2) I can actually concentrate on my breath. Getting better at not breaking the concentration too, like holding focus on the consecutive breaths. (This is also to help produce gaba, which helps with ocd and other anxiety disorders.)
3) I feel my body is more relaxed. Not as clenched/tense.
4) I feel the goosebumps and feel the karuna for not only one good will but majority of them, and many times all of them, as if I’m able to sustain on karuna for that duration.

I think I was able to achieve all that because my dosa/asavas have reduced/weakened. That is why my concentration improved. Due to diligently doing the karuna bhavana everyday these past three months.

Lobha/dosa/moha are the akusala, and asavas and pancanivrana.
They are what hinder our meditation, concentration, samadhi, and practising the Path .

The Buddha said the antidote to dosa is adosa.
Metta/karuna are very strong versions of adosa.
Thus some of the greatest antidotes to dosa/asavas.
Means they will help in reducing and weakening the dosa from our minds.

I have noticed my hatred is not what it used to be. I feel it melting away.

[upekkha100]

I’ve read a few topics here where others shared their personal struggles. I’d get curious because I could relate and would look forward to the answers to get some ideas on how to resolve the situation. Ideal situation would be if we could truly help each individual for their unique situation, a solution customized just for them, a practical solution. Unfortunately that can’t always be done, especially over the internet. So the next best we could do is give advise that we think could most likely help. One of the common answers given for peoples struggles is: cultivating metta. And I know if this is suggested, to many it will probably seem like a broken record or meaningless, or think “this is not gonna be of much practical help.” I know that in my case, whenever I read “metta bhavana” as the answer, I acknowledged that advise and nodded in agreement in my mind, but in reality it went through one ear and out the other. I did not truly take it to heart.

My metta bhavana for the longest time has been a fail and waste of time. I’d have a long list of good wills that I’d wish for all sentient beings. I’d try to say them everyday. But I’d skip a lot of days. I did not stick to it. Even when I did recite the good wills, I said the majority of them with no feeling. There truly was no metta nor karuna in my mind when I recited those. They were empty, meaningless words. Out of all the good wills, I noticed one of them induced a deep noticable feeling within me- when I wished that all would become Sotapanna. I wondered why out of all of them , only this one would consistently evoke an emotion within me. Gave me goosebumps. I felt karuna rise in my mind. I considered this the only successful moment in my entire metta bhavana. I thought if only the rest of the good wills induced the same feeling.

I think the reason wishing the Sotapanna stage for others had more impact on me than the other wishes is because the Sotapanna stage had many important implications: never being reborn in apayas, the worst types of suffering completely eliminated, destined for Paribbana-the ending of all suffering.

While both metta and karuna are similar, they are different. Metta is wanting happiness for others, karuna is wanting the easing/ending of others’ suffering.

While both are good, I feel I can more easily induce karuna within me rather than metta. For example, if I saw two scenarios:
1) A parent giving their child a birthday present
2) Someone giving food to a homeless person

2 would make me more happy.

I feel more happy easing other suffering rather than giving them things that might make them temporarily happy like watch/dress.

So I decided to instead focus on karuna rather than metta. Focus on the suffering of others. Because I noticed this is what triggers/awakens/induces my karuna cetasika, or the sleeping compassion within my mind.

Staying away from dasa akusala is necessary and praise worthy. However it is not everything. This will not be enough to get closer to Sotapanna stage. One can’t simply just stay away from immorality. They have to cultivate good qualities within their minds as well. Anapana: Discard the bad qualities/asobhana cetasika. Cultivate the good qualities/sobhana cetasika. Like removing weeds from someones garden in addition to planting the fruit seeds. One needs to do both. I’ve been doing the “apana” in anapana quite right this time(staying away from dasa akusala, weakening bad qualities), but not doing the “ana” much(cultivating good qualities like karuna).

Some event happened last fall which gave me a sense of urgency. Like there is not much time left. I could go anytime. So I thought that if that time might be coming soon, I need my mind to be in a good state. The most beautiful states of mind one can have is metta/karuna. So I thought I can’t neglect/slack off on cultivating metta/karuna anymore.

[upekkha100]

Siebe wrote:
“In the end there are no bad or evil and good persons, only ignorant and wise persons.”

I don’t know why I missed this yesterday. Very well said! Couldn’t agree more! That is the great message that one can get from reading the background stories of the Dhammapada verses or other suttas.

So the following will be long. I apologize. It is for Siebe and others who are in similar situations. In case it could help you or anyone else, I thought I’d give more time/effort into describing on what helped me.

Siebe, in your posts you have hinted a few times your circumstances aren’t the best. I read them as a calling out for help. And now that I know that you suffer from something like PTSS, it makes sense. I’m so sorry you have to suffer this.

From this older forum topic: Painful and pleasant practice forum topic , you brought up the sutta on the 4 modes of practise. Where the difficulty and speed of one’s practise of the Path is listed.
1) Hard and slow
2) Hard but fast
3) Easy but slow
4) Easy and fast

You said you think that 1 probably applies to you. I probably belong to either 1 or 2. Kind of like hard mode in videogames. But regardless of which mode it is, no matter how hard it is, no matter how many times we fall or mess up(not being perfect in our sila), or how far away our moment of magga phala is, the main thing to do is to continue striving. If it is indeed hard mode, attaining magga phala will feel that much better.

I have no idea of exactly knowing what you’ve been through or what your daily struggles are like, and it would be wrong of me to do so. We really have no idea what others could be going through. But I can sort of relate to the phenomena of having harmless everyday insignificant sense inputs causing stress on one’s mind, in your case a loud slamming door, in my case silly things like hearing someone sneezing/picking or blowing their nose/or not washing their hands long enough in the bathroom is enough to ruin my day sometimes, to the point that it will become the recurrent topic I’ll keep thinking about for the rest of the day, come back when I’m trying to contemplate. Fearing that I’ll encounter more similar inputs, I lock myself in my room for most of the day so my mind does not max out on stress. This has been going on for the past 6 years and continuing.

On my practise, it has impacted me the following ways:
1) My momentary focus on everyday things was bad. Example: when wearing my socks, brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, opening fridge door, I would not focus on that task at hand, I’d do all these activities while thinking about numerous other topics, jumping from one topic to another.
2) Even formal breath meditation(which is recommended for those with ocd/anxiety disorders) is difficult. I can’t successfully focus on consecutive breaths.
3) My body is always clenched/tense, especially in abdomen area. As if always on flight or fight setting.
Thus tapa(heat/agitation of the mind) is quite high and recurrent for most of my day, especially when I leave my room or house.

[upekkha100]

Hi Lal.

Here is the sutta that Johnny might be referring to.

Sutta SN 25.1 Cakkhusutta The Eye :
“Someone who has faith and confidence in these principles is called a follower by faith. They’ve arrived at inevitability regarding the right path, they’ve arrived at the level of the good person, and they’ve transcended the level of the bad person. They can’t do any deed which would make them be reborn in hell, the animal realm, or the ghost realm. They can’t die without realizing the fruit of stream-entry.

Someone who accepts these principles after considering them with a degree of wisdom is called a follower of the teachings. They’ve arrived at inevitability regarding the right path, they’ve arrived at the level of the good person, and they’ve transcended the level of the bad person. They can’t do any deed which would make them be reborn in hell, the animal realm, or the ghost realm. They can’t die without realizing the fruit of stream-entry. Someone who understands and sees these principles is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”

In Pali:
“Cakkhuṃ bhikkhave, aniccaṃ viparināmī1- aññathābhāvi, sotaṃ aniccaṃ viparināmī aññathābhāvī, ghānaṃ aniccaṃ viparināmī aññathābhāvī, jivhā aniccā viparināmī aññathābhāvī, kāyo anicco viparināmī aññathābhāvī, mano anicco viparināmī aññathābhāvī. 
 
Yo bhikkhave, ime dhamme evaṃ saddahati adhivuccati, ayaṃ vuccati saddhānusārī okkanto sammattaniyāmaṃ sappurisabhumiṃ okkanto vītivatto puthujjanabhumiṃ, abhabbo taṃ kammaṃ kātuṃ yaṃ kammaṃ katvā nirayaṃ vā tiracchānayoniṃ vā pettivisayaṃ vā upapajjeyya. Abhabbo va2- tāva kālaṃ kātuṃ yāva na sotāpattiphalaṃ sacchikaroti. 
 
Yassa kho bhikkhave, ime dhamme evaṃ paññāya mattaso nijjhānaṃ khamanti, ayaṃ vuccati dhammānusāri okkanto sammattaniyāmaṃ sappurisabhumiṃ okkanto vītivatto puthujjanabhumiṃ, abhabbo taṃ kammaṃ kātuṃ yaṃ kammaṃ katvā nirayaṃ vā tiracchānayoniṃ vā pettivisayaṃ vā upapajjeyya. Abhabbo va tāva kālaṃ kātuṃ yāva na sotāpattiphalaṃ sacchikaroti. 
 
Yo bhikkhave, ime dhamme evaṃ jānāti3- evaṃ passati. Ayaṃ vuccati sotāpanno avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyanoti.”

[upekkha100]

Hi Siebe.

You wrote:
” I know this is not a therapeutic forum and site, but it might lead to a better understanding and might be helpfull to others too. I think it shows the workings of the mind. ”

Helping our fellow Dhamma friends in whatever little ways we can so that they can practise the Path with more ease rather than discomfort seems fitting for a Dhamma forum like this.

Siebe wrote:
“My own years of experience is that practising buddha-dhamma is very hard when such issues are not tackled first, because they colour the mind too much. ”

Yes this very true. Practising the Path and Nibbana is indeed difficult without the 4 requisites(food, clothing, medicine, shelter), without a comfortable life. Physical diseases and mental disorders deprive one of a comfortable life, prevents people from practising the Path with ease. They have to try that much harder, put that much more energy/effort(viriya). Which can get exhausting at times.

I know you how you feel because I struggle with a mental disorder. I have severe ocd/germophobia, so severe to the point I don’t leave my house, and barely leave my room. This drains a lot of my energy. This is one of the reasons why it is difficult for me to concentrate during formal meditation.

Later when I find the time, I’d like to share how I handle it and what I’ve done recently that drastically improved my conditions/situation.

[upekkha100]

Questions:
1) Everything in this entire world is essentially energy (whether it is mano rupa or rupa rupa)?

2) Everything is either mano rupa(below sudastaka) or rupa rupa(at/above sudastaka)?

3) Mano rupa is precursor. All rupa rupa started out as mano rupa before condensing to rupa rupa?

[upekkha100]

Another point I want emphasize is that anariyas should be able to have saddha.

There would appear to be 3 types of faith/devotion:
1) Blind
2) Temporary anariya saddha
3) Permanent unwavering Ariya saddha(I’d assume this is the avecca pasada)

The overall/cumulative level of our sobhana vs asobhana cetasika can change from life to life. Can either increase or decrease. Can either get stronger or weaker. Depending on which cetasika we cultivate and which cetasika we neglect. Like habits. It can even change within this very life.

The asobhana cetasika are:
Lobha, dosa, moha, thina, middha, kukkucca, vicikicca, uddhacca, ditthi, mana, issa, ahirika, anotappa, maccariya.

Some sobhana cetasika are:
Alobha, adosa, amoha, sati, saddha, hiri, ottappa, karuna, mudita, panna.

An anariya’s lobha cetasika can decrease and his/her karuna cetasika can increase in this life. An example would be an anariya yogi who has cultivated jhana or an anariya brahma. Both are anariya, yet both would have low lobha, and high karuna. But since they are anariya, they have not locked in on those cetasika levels. These cetasika levels can be lost and change in future lives. Thus it is temporary.

Unlike that of an Ariya. An Ariya, let’s say Anagami, would also have no lobha and have high karuna like a brahma or yogi who cultivated jhana. Difference being, the Anagami has locked in on those cetasika levels. It is permanent. Those cetasika levels will not be lost nor change in future lives.

Lobha is a asobhana cetasika.
Karuna is a sobhana cetasika.

If an anariya can decrease/increase lobha and karuna, then same can be done for saddha. If lobha and karuna levels can be temporary and change from life to life, same applies to saddha. Because, as listed from above, saddha is a sobhana cetasika.

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