[Tobias G]

In #13 you say:
“…With adhimokkha as a condition, (Ariya) bhava arises. Note that an Ariya bhava arises via ELIMINATING a uppatti bhava. For example, one is “born” an Anāgāmi by eliminating the possibility of rebirths in the 11 realms of kāma loka.”

This means kusala kamma really removes kamma seeds, which is wrong! Uppatti bhava is like kammabhava a “stored abhisankhara” or a kamma energy. But kusala kamma cannot eliminate such energies. As you said Angulimala still had enough kamma seeds “on store” when he became an Arahant. So the sentence in #13 is confusing.

Can you write that kusala mula PS has no kammic consequences and just reduces the ability to operate the akusala mula PS? Thus “(Ariya)bhava” in kusala mula PS means just the “registration of nana/panna in the mind/namaloka” (sanna-, vedana-, sankhara-, vinnanakhandha). With that “knowledge” the mind will not grasp any bad bhava at cuti moment and increasingly no other bhava at all.

[Tobias G]

Thanks Lal!
But still I must say that the text gives the impression the kusala mula PS leads to rebirth (as Ariya). But it does not tell us that the kusala mula PS has no kammic consequences and just reduces the ability to operate the akusala mula PS. It should be said that ALL rebirth happens via the akusala mula PS.

For example you say in #13:
“..The resulting existence (or “bhava“) matches that state of mind: “paṭi+ichcha sama uppāda“; one “lives” that experience.
If it is a rebirth at patisandhi, an appropriate “bhava” is selected according to the kamma nimitta.”

This new bhava mentioned above is selected via akusala mula PS, but not via kusala mula PS. The kusala mula PS just reduces the options to select a bad bhava.

[Tobias G]

OK, now I understand the kusala mula PS is not completely displayed.

What we don’t know: how is bhava defined in the last cycle with namarupa involved? It should not be kammabhava/upapattibhava, because the kamma is akaṇhaṃ asukkaṃ (neither dark nor bright).

Is there a complete kusala mula PS in the literature, in a commentary in the Tipitaka?

[Tobias G]

Ok, which point in Vb 6 shows that kusala mula PS with namarupa? I don’t find it in the Pali-version. It should be in No 2 Kusalaniddesa

[Tobias G]

Lal, if you agree that “The Kusala-mula PS does not accumulate kamma bhava.
– But it ELEVATES one to higher bhava, by eliminating the ability to be “hooked into” lower bhava”

then you should modify the post on kusala mula PS because there you describe it as if the kusala mula PS is responsible for upatti and pavutti bhava. You could add an explanation of the “hook” and the ability to operate the akusala mula PS which gets reduced with kusala kamma. Otherwise the people will think the kusala mula PS itself will bring new bhava.

[Tobias G]

Ok, now I understand where you see the “namarupa” in kusala kamma. Can it be that this preparation of food is just punna kamma and the kusala thoughts with understanding are in the background and operate the kusala mula PS? Otherwise why is it not mentioned in Vb 6 as namarupa? It seems kusala kamma is only mind made.

[Tobias G]

There is more in the last step of kusala mula PS which adds more argument to my position.

The last step in 2.10.1.1. Mahākusalacitta says: “… bhavapaccayā jāti, jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇaṁ. Evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti”

But we know that jati of a Sotapanna (Anugami) is filled with more dukkha than just “jaramaranam“. Thus this is not the physical birth or the new bhava in the human realm. This can be just the registry in namaloka.

[Tobias G]

This explanation is better: We do kusala kamma via kusala mula PS and that reduces the ability (the “hook”) to operate the akusala mula PS. When the hook is totally removed every kamma bhava is a dud.

[Tobias G]

You said: ” … – Viññāṇa dhatu has namagotta PLUS kammic energies, i.e., those energies below the suddhatthaka stage.”

I agree. But those energies are namarupa and that is not mentioned in the kusala mula PS (just “nama”).

[Tobias G]

Agreed, even for the Sotapanna the akusala mula PS will operate at cuti moment.

Do you say that new kamma bhava is accumulated while doing kusala kamma? And this (kusala) kamma bhava is grasped via akusala mula PS at the cuti moment?

We should remind us that kusala kamma is neither dark nor bright with neither-dark-nor-bright results, it is kamma that leads to the destruction of defilements. Thus kusala kamma will not add to kamma bhava. That is the reason it is not mentioned in kusala mula PS.

[Tobias G]

Even for kāmāvacarakusala it is stated as:
Tattha katamo adhimokkhapaccayā bhavo? Ṭhapetvā adhimokkhaṁ, vedanākkhandho saññākkhandho saṅkhārakkhandho viññāṇakkhandho—ayaṁ vuccati “adhimokkhapaccayā bhavo”

Same as lokuttara kusala: no kammabhava, just registry in mind.
All punna kamma operate the akusala mula PS and generate rebirth. When removing defilements the kusala mula PS operates (starting from sotapanna anugami?). Can it be that lokuttara kusala means that path factors are fulfilled and magga phala is reached? There it is mentioned:

Tattha katamo alobho …pe… adoso …pe… amoho? Yā paññā pajānanā …pe… amoho dhammavicayo sammādiṭṭhi dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo maggaṅgaṁ maggapariyāpannaṁ

[Tobias G]

“chaṭṭhā” means sixth, hence the sixth ayatana or manayatana.

[Tobias G]

What means Upāsaka?

[Tobias G]

Is fear part of dosa (or any other cetasika)?
(I am not really fearful but jumpy when something happens suddenly. Therefore I ask.)

[Tobias G]

In terms of Abhidhamma one does akusala kamma always with those four cetasika:
mōha (ignorance), ahiri (shamelessness), anottapa (fearlessness in wrong), uddhacca (restless mind).

So we see, moha is always part of extending the journey in samsara.

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