[LayDhammaFollower]

Yes, Lal. Thanks for Pali words explanation.

Will not contemplate it in any wrong way as you have mentioned in earlier comments as well.

It seems to me Lal that one of the aspects of yathabhuta nana is about seeing how this body is just “vipaka kaya” i.e. just dependently originated.

Is that good summary?

(And Yes, I have read your post about bhuta and yathabhuta nana topic.)

[LayDhammaFollower]

This is quotation from AN10.60: Girimananda sutta

Katamā cānanda, asubhasaññā?

Idhānanda, bhikkhu imameva kāyaṁ uddhaṁ pādatalā adho kesamatthakā tacapariyantaṁ pūraṁ nānāppakārassa asucino paccavekkhati:

‘atthi imasmiṁ kāye kesā lomā nakhā dantā taco, maṁsaṁ nhāru aṭṭhi aṭṭhimiñjaṁ vakkaṁ, hadayaṁ yakanaṁ kilomakaṁ pihakaṁ papphāsaṁ, antaṁ antaguṇaṁ udariyaṁ karīsaṁ, pittaṁ semhaṁ pubbo lohitaṁ sedo medo, assu vasā kheḷo siṅghāṇikā lasikā muttan’ti.

Iti imasmiṁ kāye asubhānupassī viharati.

Ayaṁ vuccatānanda, asubhasaññā.

I assume in this specific sutta, Asubha Saññā is about drawabacks of physical body or its repulsive nature.

Any comments on this Lal?

[LayDhammaFollower]

Greetings, Lal!

Thank you for sharing your journey of learning dhamma.

=======

From my early years, I wanted to “get to the bottom” of any subject, and thus I read everything I could get my hands on. I think that mindset led me naturally to specialize in physics. I came to the United States for graduate studies and have been here since then. I worked at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory after getting my Ph.D. and taught a few courses at the close-by University of Tennessee, Knoxville.

I have inclination like you too , Lal. I thought I could find the answers to questions of life, existence, purpose, meaning and suffering through physics. I will finish the bachelor’s degree in physics in few months.

I searched for answers widely for many years, but all worldviews failed to incorporate all the
different facets of life and existence.

I sought transcendence from mundane existence. Initially when I came across dhamma, I was sad for while, because, I wanted some sort of higher purpose and meaning to life and existence. But, well, obviously there is none.

There were lots of contradiction and lack of clarity and facts in many worldviews that I explored.

Only buddha dhamma is ultimate theory of literally everything, which is 100% self consistent.

Ofcourse, we can only say that with faith emerging from removal of dukkhā.

Even though I liked doing research, I was getting “burned out” with administrative responsibilities and keeping up with environmental compliance activities. So, I took early retirement. I started reading widely again and naturally started thinking seriously about Buddha Dhamma. I had the essential background, but there were many “unanswered questions.” Thanks to the internet, I could listen to discourses by many prominent bhikkhus in Sri Lanka and elsewhere.

Lal, It is great to see the work you have done despite your age.

Very Inspiring to read that you plan to write double of what you have already wrote so far on website.

One must have an interest in pursuing any subject. If someone is not interested in Buddha Dhamma, that is because one does not have the necessary background. It takes effort to set up that background, especially in the Western world. When engaged in the “rat race” trying to experience maximum sensory pleasures (and how to pay for such activities), there is hardly any time left to investigate issues like the “meaning of life.”

Very true, Lal.

I highly recommend taking notes while reading or listening to Dhamma.
– I have done it from my school days (on any subject). Even if I may not read some of them, just writing down what one learns helps get it into “long-term memory.” I have accumulated a pile of notebooks from Waharaka Thero’s discourses. I recently glanced through them and saw that I had taken notes of the same discourse a few times in some cases (unknowingly.) But the interesting point is that my latter notes are much better; they were taken with a better understanding.

Yes, I take lots of notes in different forms too. I tried mind maps, but, it became overwhelming. Nowadays I just draw flowcharts and take plain written notes from Desanas, Reading posts, sutta, essays, tipitaka etc.

Many people don’t really understand the power of taking notes. Taking notes is very efficient way to expand RAM (working memory) of our CPU (brain).

With notes, one can hold many facts simultaneously in mind.

Also, it is very very interesting to hear about “Piles” of notebooks made from sermons of thero. This is the real temptation for me! :)

There is always room to improve. Only a Buddha knows everything perfectly. But it is an exhilarating experience to advance on the Path as things become clear more easily. Now I can read an earlier post of mine or a sutta translation by another person and see the flaws right away, in most cases.

Yes, It is really exhilarating experience. I am confident in your ability that you can explain many concepts of dhamma from many many different POV.

As you have said at few places,
Once the fundamentals are strong and clear, buddhda dhamma learning journey can be really exponential.

=====

Learning and realising dhamma seems almost impossible feet to achieve, considering the timescale of saṁsāra and odds of so many variables aligning in suitable way. Thanks to you many have accomplished this almost impossible feet!

Thank you for very detailed reply, Lal.

Thanks to Seng Kiat too for maintaining forum, for ebook compilation, website etc.

Many merits to both of you and may blessings of noble triple gem be always with all of us.

☸️

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jorg

[LayDhammaFollower]

Lal said above,

Yes. I hope to write at least double what I have written so far.

Yes, great to know, Lal.

They include both Sutta Pitaka and Abhidhamma. Also, I am constantly learning new ways of looking at concepts.

Me too, Lal. It is profound experience, seeing the absolutely 100% consistency of dhamma.

By the way, if you have not read the series on “Origin of Life” you should read it. It explains why there can be no beginning to life.

Yes, I have studied that section three or four times so far.

Many such interrelated issues can be explained so that people would not be distracted by such matters. That will build faith in Buddha Dhamma and allow one to focus on the main goal: “stop future suffering in the rebirth process.”

Yes, I have gut feelings that actually all the important questions about life, existence, meaning, whether those questions are abstract or concrete, all can be answered by dhamma. One needs to just look and one will find the answers to those questions.

======

I have a sincere request for you, If you can I request you to Please pen down your journey of learning dhamma. I know few bits of it from reading posts and forum comments on websites.

(I have read “about” section, post on “parinibbana of Waharaka thero” and few forum comments and posts where you have shared some details on this matter.)

But, still it is good idea. It will be inspiring to many people including me. If you can share with all, How you came to learn so much and especially, what are your study/research methodology for independent learning.

In one way, positive feedback loop is permanently established at moment of first magga phala, then onwards it is only going up (in understanding dhamma).

I think having skill in dhamma learning and helping others with it is, highest level of possible altruism in my opinion. Because, all other help, other than help through dhamma pales completely in comparison. Your ideas, thoughts and advice has helped many and will help many to become skilled in it.

[LayDhammaFollower]

Greetings to Lal and other dhamma friends!

Lal said,

It has taken me over eight years to assemble the posts on the website. But there is much more, depending on how deep I want to go.

Sadhu!

Lal, I am really happy to read above statement.

#1 Can you share some concepts which you have not been able to share so far on website due to time constraints and you think are good to know and understand? (Concepts Outside complex abhidhamma details.)

#2 Also, Let’s say someone hypothetically studies this website completely and understands dhamma to extent it is explained and shared on website, what should be the next steps for his/her learning journey in dhamma? (Especially people unfamiliar with sinhala language.)

You don’t need to answer this question right now, but, I wholeheartedly request you to share some advice on this topic from your own experience of learning dhamma throughout the years.

[LayDhammaFollower]

Hello, All dhamma friends.

Critical part of my comment was about correcting incomplete saññā about body. We only see shining skin of young beautiful people in world dominated by marketing/advertisement.

I mean beneath muscle, fat and shining skin the biological machinery is hidden away. Which is not exactly pretty sight. Even when we know this is the case, many still have saññā that body is good/beautiful etc.

But, is it the case really?

IF contemplating disgusting aspects of body lead to something, wouldn’t surgeons and gynecologist would be foremost Arhants?

Only purpose of sharing those videos was, To see that unfamiliar side of body.

Lang said above,

I remember that Lal has explained that asubha bhavana was not about the foulness of the body, that it was about the unfruitful nature of sensual things. Again, I am sure you did not mean this; I am raising this since I often see asubha bhavana described incorrectly this way.

That is correct Lang, as Lal has said in next comment and at some posts in website.

That’s why I used the tag:
“MUNDANE Ashubha saññā”.

To lal, Thanks for once again reminder about correct Ashubha bhavana.

[LayDhammaFollower]

Thank you, Lal, For Sharing the chart with everyone.

I request you to delete the above comment #41357;

I found a better way to communicate those same points.

=====

Everyone knows that human bhava is rare, but logically seeing that is a bit hard. Buddha gave some very radical analogies for rebirths in human or higher realms. (Which are Good bhava in conventional sense.)

There are four POSSIBLE cases in that document regarding bhava to bhava transition for ALL lifestreams.

All of us are in one of those four cases. Those who are ariya are ofcourse on path to get rid of bhava all together.

However, for everyone else who hasn’t yet understood 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana and their inter-connections, are not yet free from bad bhava in (apāyā are bad bhava and “dukha” in conventional sense; all bhava are “dukkhā” in ultimate sense;)

We can start with any one of the four cases in rebirth cycle. But, because, good to bad bhava transition is extremely common and bad to good bhava is extremely common. Balance is ALWAYS extremely tilted towards birth in bad bhava. One WILL end up in apāyā without a doubt (for anariya). But that requires a bit more contemplation of four cases.

===

Dukkhā has infinite shapes and forms.

Future birth suffering, present birth suffering.

Mental/physical suffering.

Suffering due to Unsatisfactory experiences.

(For example no matter how much food, sex, music, TV, knowledge one has it won’t ever fulfil the senses. Because neither sense objects nor senses themselves are satisfactory or can be satisfied.

PañcaUpādānaKhandha.
(This is the one word summary of mental suffering.)

Suffering of birth and death.

Suffering due to three kinds of dukkhā.

etc.

All aspects are not and cannot be covered in one chart.

Chart demonstrates the unfixable problem of suffering.

That problem (old age, illness and death and all the “dukkhā” associated with any birth anywhere at any time) has no permanent solution, other than removing root causes due to which problem arise in first place. (i.e. Removing bhava/jati by removing tanha/san by removing avijjā through lokottara eightfold path starting with sammā diṭṭhi)

Buddha said that even if your head was on fire, your house was burning, instead of fixing that you should contemplate the 4NT and tilakkhana. That would be more useful.

It is not just inspiring saying, there is deep reason behind it. (Which I realised recently.)

Reason is that problems that comes after birth are unfixable problem. (Cannot be permanently fixed and can neither be prevented permanently)

So, root problem is birth anywhere at all (not just in human bhava), ALL OTHER PROBLEMS COMES DUE TO HAVING BIRTH IN FIRST PLACE.

Efforts put towards solving right problem is right efforts. (Right problem= Elimination of bhava/jati.)

Efforts put towards solving wrong problem is wrong efforts. Because it cannot be cured/prevented permanently as long as rebirth is there. Inevitably, There will be similar problem at in future lives too.

(So, basically, Any problem that comes after birth is not a problem we should focus on too much and if possible should try to focus full time on right problem by becoming monk. You lost everything you did in infinite previous lives anyways. Living require only four necessities.)

This why buddha said to contemplate on 4NT/Tilakkhana even when we have life threating danger. Because, that will give us vision of what is real problem and what is not a real problem.

====

As discussed in discussion thread of Aggañña sutta;

Even 9 months of pleasure vacation pales in comparison to one day of harsh intense suffering.

And

All pleasures in saṁsāra are filled with dukkhā …

☸️

[LayDhammaFollower]

Lal said,

Any dukha or sukha felt in the current life is due to “panca upadana khandha” in previous lives. In that analogy, “poison was consumed” in a previous life, and one now reaps the results (vipaka).

Excellent Angle, Lal. Got it.

So, future suffering should be discriminated on two basis.

#1 possible future suffering within same jati.
#2 Future Suffering in future jati.

In addition differentiating with respect to dukkhā and dukha.

Dukkhā = all suffering (mental or physical) in case #2 + mental Suffering in case #1

Dukha = all physical suffering in case #1.

So, Human Arhant removed dukkhā, not dukha. Cause of that remaining dukha is in past.

[LayDhammaFollower]

Lal you said,

Above in #14122 that,

Pancakkhandha is like a bottle of poison sitting on a table. One gets into trouble only if one takes it and drinks from it (panca upadanakkhandha).

I think that drinking analogy is valid for realms above human realms.

But, in human realm,
Poison bottle is also leaking out the toxic fumes, if one gets near to bottle (attaching) one will suffer much more. But, even if one has saupdisesa nibbanā, one will suffer by just toxic fumes leaking from bottle until anupdisesa nibbanā.

Because, even Arhant has to engage in saṅkhāra dukkhā (hunger etc.) and he will also have vipakā dukha vēdanā until physical death. But, ofcourse he doesn’t suffers from anything at all in world in mind.

Agree?

=====

Another interesting insight is that is only because Gandhabba is kammicaly trapped in human body, that when three types of buddha removes PañcaUpādānaKhandha, they are also able to guide others to it, without instantly attaining parinibbana, isn’t it?

Otherwise, Suffering of this universe would rise exponentially. Because, each would have to attain nibbanā on his own, with much lengthier saṁsāric journey filled with dukkhā.Because, no-one who has attained nibbanā is around to guide anyone due to attaining parinibbana.

[LayDhammaFollower]

You don’t need to prove attaining a magga phala to anyone else, LDF.
– You can verify for yourself, and no one else can confirm or deny that.

Yes, understood, Lal.

Nice analogy about tree. I am reading about that sutta first time, so unfortunately, I don’t know the reference either. If found, I will post.

I will read the post on bhavanga and bhava.

[LayDhammaFollower]

Thank you for details.

You said,

If one understands that, one can eliminate Sakkaya Ditthi, as you seem to have.

Yes, I have wrote my experiences in detail under certain thread on this forum. I have been intensely studying this website since last 10 months. Got breakthrough four months ago about THE core of dhamma.

But, there is no way I can prove that to anybody, So, I will refrain from talking anymore about the magga phala or progress. But, I have never been more free from mental Suffering in my life then after that event.

Namo Buddhay ☸️.

[LayDhammaFollower]

thank you taking time to write a reply.

========================

you said,

That is what powers future rebirths at cuti-patisandhi moments, taking one of such kamma bija and transforming it into a manomaya kaya with several suddhatthaka (hadaya vatthu and a set of pasada rupa).

Lal, As mentioned earlier, I recently read the whole “word by word translation of Tipitaka”.
especially the brilliant points in whole “Paticca Samuppada during lifetime” section.

They are extremely insightful sections.

One thing which was new to me was learning about bhavanga or “temporary bhava” during every jati/bhava. how that same process also happens at the end of current bhava.

it is unbelievable! (not literally, just very strange.)

How an extremely small bit of matter powered by kammic energy can create so much suffering.

I have few points to discuss about those posts;

1. looking from POV of bhavanga, sottapana has removed all apayagami bhavanga. because all citta/cetasika corresponding to those strengths are removed/reduced in javana. right?

2. as we progress more and more bhavanga are removed, becuase there are less and less arammana with which we get stuck via tanha.

3. Arhant cannot get into any bhavanga ever again. even at the time when buddha died, many cried except arahants as far as I know.

====================

about the second part;

you said,

Food for vinnana is vaci and kaya abhisankhara!
– The key is to stop generating vaci and kaya abhisankhara by “engaging with a mind-pleasing arammana.” That will weaken such kamma viññāṇa and eventually eliminate them. P.S. By the way, vaci abhisankhara (just talking to oneself OR speaking out) is as bad as engaging in bodily actions with kaya abhisankhara.

understood.

as you said, we should stop abhisankhara with force firstly.
simultaneously, we can remove the root on which they grow, which is removing three san, right?

And ofcourse, sancetana will be automatically adressed during this process.

And sense restrain will take care of food coming through contact, isn’t it?

We must deprive fire (of jati) by reducing/stopping the throwing of wood logs (through four foods) in it and also stop the supply of oxygen (three san), right?

[LayDhammaFollower]

Lal, I hope that I didn’t missed your point?

Just wanted to share the decision about lifestyle change after the realisation occurred as per your comment that some elephants must be deprived by not giving them food for time until they’re very weak.

[LayDhammaFollower]

Yes, Lal.

Thanks for the reminder about sakkāya diṭṭhi, Lal.

All that you said above is perfectly understood.

nothing is permanently existent and nothing is permanently non existent. Cause and effect are not completely same and not completely different. They are connected. Effects only and only manifest when there are both necessary and sufficient conditions present for that effect to manifest.

King who becomes monkey, they are not same and they are not different. As long as causes are there NamaRupa/six senses/pañcakKhanda arises.

I think, I should have used the word “lifestream” instead of “being” above.

Root cause are six. This root causes are removed by removal of avijjā about 4NT and vipallāsa about tilakkhana.

I have repeatedly used the self reference “I”, “Me” etc in conventional sense only. Those references cannot be completely avoided.

It is perfectly clear to me about absence of permanent entity/soul/essence/self etc.

As you have said, The “FEELING” of self exist as long as there is Avijjā.

Also, The Suffering about apāyā, value of human bhava etc too.

Also, I have well understood your very very detailed analysis of sakkāya, PañcaUpādānaKhandha and sakkāya diṭṭhi on website. The nihilistic and eternalist view, “me/mine” view, taking pañcakKhanda as fruitful etc. I have realised those connections.

I no longer confuse dukkhā with mundane dukha.

I have understood the wider worldview of Buddha of 31 realms.

I have understood 4NT in context of 12 ayatana and in terms of 31 realms and humongous birth rate in apāyā.

Also the important point that we cannot avoid many kamma vipakā despite doing our best to stop them, because, necessary conditions for their manifestation exists IN THIS LIFE.

But, we can cutoff the conditions of future suffering filled rebirth.

I don’t understand very complex details about two types of NamaRupa but I did understood the basic connecting point between namarupa and sakkāya diṭṭhi, how kamma viññāṇa is bridge between mind and matter.

Bhavanga, temporary bhava,
Connection between iddapaccaya and uppati PS cycles.

Thanks to your elephant in room posts.

[LayDhammaFollower]

@Yash RS.

Another aspect involved here is,
To completely give up kama, either of two things are highly useful.

One is jhanas. Pleasure more refined then pleasures of five senses.

If not, then high paññā is needed, so, that even if one does not have jhanas, one could be free from kama through contemplation of their drawbacks/adīnava.

Another way here could be putting forth efforts to suppress it (this could be useful if one is ariya already.)

Yash RS, said above,

Also Lal mentioned “At the end of the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)” the Buddha promised that one would attain at least the Anagami stage in two weeks if one practiced it incessantly;”
So what exactly should be done, Lal.
I mean can you provide a structure from where should one start from to attain the stage within a fortnight

I have also read such things few times on this forum,

What kind of all out effort this is, Lal?

Can you please explain in brief.

[Author]

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