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Thanks for sharing your experience @TripleGemStudent!
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I have been reading this thread for while now.
so, it seems we can say that,
A = B + C + D + E
where,
A = vipaka = resulting music
B = external physical environment = Body = Radio itself
C = internal environment = Mindset/Bhava = Tuning of radio
D = Surrounding environment = Kind of people around us, physical location etc
E = kamma seeds = Various Radio stations broadcasting different audioYes, Great Explanation.
Then the question arises,
Why is it so hard to accept the vipakā as it is?
My understanding is that,
Avijjā → Defiled Gati/Anusaya → triggered by ārammaṇa → taṇhā → Abhisaṅkhāra → Kamma viññāṇa → New kamma.
There is worldview that there is something to be gained by retaliation against vipakā.
How do you understand it?
#1 Lal, There are no “friends”, “enemies”, “nice music”, “bad music”, “praise”, “insult” etc in ultimate reality, right?
That is what I meant by “figment of imagination“, as in they are just labeled as such by the mind but are not out there in reality.
#2 These “defiled perceptions” are responsible for arising of sōmanassa vedanā with “nice music” or with “praise” and are responsible for arising of “dōmanassa vedanā ” with “insult” or “bad music” for example, right?
There is just constantly evolving combinations of matter and energy.
Furthermore, “mind-made suffering” or “domanassa vedana” arise if one is unable to get “somanassa vedana” fast enough!
Good point.
Yes, that is correct.
I meant Mind made pleasures not physical sukha vedanā.
I should have used more precise language.
Lal said,
As discussed in “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka” these bhūta have origins in mind, specifically in javana citta. In summary, that means we live in a world made up by our minds and suffer immensely. That suffering goes away when one fully understands that.
Understood.
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Everything in this world is just different configuration of constantly evolving matter and energy, which are created by just four mind-made fundamental building blocks.
Lal, Is this correct or not?
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Another relevant question to this discussion;
#1 Until Arhant phala saññā is defiled.
Due to that, there is a PERCEPTION of things that do not really exist in reality more than a figment of the imagination of the mind, right?
#2 For example, All sounds are just different configurations of four maha bhuta, but some sounds are perceived as pleasant music, some sounds are perceived as praise, some are perceived as noise, some as an insult, etc. right?
The same goes for all sense inputs right? Including Dhamma (with long a).
#3 Beings with ignorance see some configurations (of matter+energy) as good and some as bad, unable to see that anything perceived as good cannot be had without their bad counterpart. Which is of course what Anicca is.
Okay.
#1 Lal, can you mention a few pathways to develop “Yathābhūta ñāna” other than “Ghana saññā”?
My guess is those are PS cycles steps, Twelve āyatana.
#2 By developing “Yathābhūta ñāna”, the goal is to understand that “everything in this world is made up of infinite configuration of constantly evolving matter and energy, which in turn are created by the same mind-made fundamental building blocks“, right?
Lal, I have been reading more about Ghana saññā from your recommended posts. This time I have understood the concept of Yathābhūta ñāna better than before.
#1 However, It is still bit unclear that why Ghana saññā is such a critical concept?
#2 Also, What are consequences of having AND not having Ghana saññā?
#3 Why is it said that one understands the world properly only when all ten saṃyojana are removed i.e. with arhant phala?
#4 this is something I found on internet;
Why does a table also feel solid? Many websites will tell you that this is due to the repulsion – that two negatively charged things must repel each other. But this is wrong, and shows you should never trust some things on the internet. It feels solid because of the dancing electrons.
If you touch the table, then the electrons from atoms in your fingers become close to the electrons in the table’s atoms. As the electrons in one atom get close enough to the nucleus of the other, the patterns of their dances change. This is because, an electron in a low energy level around one nucleus can’t do the same around the other – that slot’s already taken by one of its own electrons. The newcomer must step into an unoccupied, more energetic role. That energy has to be supplied, not by light this time but by the force from your probing finger.
So pushing just two atoms close to each other takes energy, as all their electrons need to go into unoccupied high-energy states. Trying to push all the table-atoms and finger-atoms together demands an awful lot of energy – more than your muscles can supply. You feel that, as resistance to your finger, which is why and how the table feels solid to your touch.
Lal, can you comment specifically on whether #2, #3, #4 point of #post-44251 above are correct or not?
Lal Said,
Of course, it helps a lot to stay away from sensory pleasures as much as possible.
Many people miss the meaning of this statement. Sensual pleasure is generated in the mind. that is where they need to be stopped. If experiencing something was kama raga, kama raga couldn’t be ever removed.
Okay.– Here, “mattan” means “a brief moment/event.” Seeing a tree takes many such events. That is confirmed by modern science too.Lal, this is where the problem was. I was trying to understand the sutta with the wrong translation. Now, It is clear.I will ask more questions if needed after studying the recommended posts.I wrote above,
This is what I was trying to say in bahiya suttā thread. It is due to adding san to sensory experience, “feeling/perception of me/mine” arises. San is there due to vipallāsa.
Not absolutely sure about this part. Just a guess.
You can comment more.
Lal said,
The working of the mind is a mechanical process. It just responds to external stimuli (sensory inputs) mechanically. The response is according to the gati one has at that time.
Three questions:
#1 Lal, that bold part in above reply is just conventional reality, right?
There is nothing to which that gati belongs to. It is due to defiled gati, mind behaves as if it is entity right?
This is what I was trying to say in bahiya suttā thread. It is due to adding san to sensory experience, “feeling/perception of me/mine” arises. San is there due to vipallāsa.
There is just a mind and a body. Which is connected via kamma viññāṇa.
#2 Mind (flow of cittā; each citta containing seven universal cetasika and other additional cetasika put together by cetanā cetasika) behaves as if it is entity, then it feels that other things belong to that constructed identity/entity, right?
For example, Mind feels/behaves as if it is body or that body truly belongs to it.
Then others things are then perceived as belonging/not-belonging to this constructed identity.
#3 So the feeling that whole is more then parts is ultimately wrong right?
#4 feeling/perception of some PañcakKhanda as being “me” gives rise to feeling/perception about other PañcakKhanda as either “mine/not mine”, correct?
Amadassana thero gives a good example of this phenomenon via example.
Consider feeling of “me” as ground floor of building and other things which are considered to be belonging to ‘me’ i.e. “mine” as floors constructed above that ground floor.
As paññā grows after Sōtapanna, top floor are slowly started to demolished, eventually the foundation of building i.e. ground floor is also permanently demolished at arhant phala.
I don’t recall the sermon right now.
