DanielSt

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  • in reply to: Elimination of Fear #37220
    DanielSt
    Participant

    Yes, I would say so, in the ultimate sense it will go away the closer one gets to Nibbana. But there are many intensities of a fear one is experiencing, because a fear is an aversion, that “something should not happen that would go against my hope/wish”, and so as with all other defilements, it is always important to be mindful of the emotion, understand the underlying attachment or craving, reflect on this with the understanding of anicca/dukkha/anatta (e.g. reflecting about “what exactly is it one is afraid of?” “why do I hold as true or important for myself, that it makes me afraid to lose or face such a situation?”, and with the understanding that holding on and “trying to manage” any kind of rupa is stressful, subjects one to suffering, one will be able to handle the emotion and reach to deeper understanding of oneself.

    One other aspect is the simple truth that any rupa one is attached to, if one does not have it – that makes one grief for it, desire it, want it, long for it, … and if one has it, one will be afraid to lose it (hence fear is part of every desire/craving/attachment).

    But this is only a general idea, I think that fears can have many different forms, e.g. fear from an enemy could be very much a problem if one is engaged in many immoral activities or if one is acting in a way that makes it easy for you to be an enemy. Such a kind of fear can easily be changed once one understands some Dhamma and progresses on the path. On the other hand some fears are more “self-preservatory”, as the latter you mentioned, fear from an insect, where one is “afraid to lose one’s life” or be hurt, and these ones might only really go away with Arahant stage, because they are more related to the mana- cetasika (sense of pride, sense of self).

    That would be my ideas.

    Best wishes

    in reply to: post on Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta #35995
    DanielSt
    Participant

    You said:

    “A dhamma that initiates the cuti-patisandhi transition in arupa-realm is a vipaka but there can be other sensory inputs that are not vipaka. ”

    In an arupa realm, that must come through the mind-door process.

    Then your statement:”The sixth process that Tobias referred to, “manañca paṭicca dhammē ca uppajjāti manōviññāṇaṃ” initiated by a manōdvāravajjana citta.. It is not a good or bad kamma vipaka. It is a “functional citta” that can arise as needed.”

    How do these two match each other, in your explanation?

    in reply to: post on Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta #35984
    DanielSt
    Participant

    According to Bhikkhu Bodhi, some Citta Vitthi do not even go to the stage of “Pancadvara citta”, e.g. the very slight object at page 161. But Bhikkhu Bodhi also calls the” Vibrational Bhavanga citta” a resultant, which I translate as vipaka?

    The other point:
    If you say it is not a Vipaka, then your statement:” I think it is not only possible but necesssary. For example, at the cuti-patisandhi moment, a vipaka bring the next bhava can come through any of the six senses. How does an arupavacara Brahma grasp the next bhava at the cuti-patisandhi moment? He has only the mind-door.”

    It would mean the dhamma that initiates the cuti-patisandhi transition in arupa-realm is not a vipaka?

    in reply to: post on Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta #35977
    DanielSt
    Participant

    On page 166:”Thus, according to Ledi Sayadaw, in the mind door
    too there is a fourfold presentation of objects. The course ending with
    registration can be called a very clear (ati-vibh³ta) presentation; the
    course ending with javanas, a clear (vibh³ta) presentation; the course
    ending with mind-door adverting, an obscure (avibh³ta) presentation;
    and the course ending with mere vibration of the bhavanga, a very ob-
    scure (ati-avibh³ta) presentation. The clarity of the presentation depends
    on either the prominence of the object or the strength of consciousness”

    So, according to that, there can be Citta Vitthi, where a dhamma comes in that look like:

    B B B A V V V V V V V V V B B B B
    Similar to page 161 table.

    Now, a dhamma is incoming, but only investigating citta(the one that I proposed) is arising, then how can it be anything else?

    In your post

    Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta

    You write:”The seventh akusala vipāka citta is called the investigating consciousness accompanied by equanimity (upekkha-sahagata santirana citta). This is the citta that is responsible for the birth in the apāyā (lowest four realms), i.e, it acts as the paṭisandhi citta for the birth in the apāyā.”

    Yes, agreed, and in Bhikkhu Bodhis book, the investigation citta can arise as Patisandhi but also as “Bhavanga citta” (which is A and V in above diagram, not B because B is not a citta as you pointed out)

    in reply to: post on Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta #35966
    DanielSt
    Participant

    Yes, Bhavanga is a state of mind, but there are also cittas inside a Citta Vitthi, that are, at least in CMA called e.g.
    V= “Vibrational bhavanga”
    A=”arrest bhavanga”

    See page 166 on the Mind door process.

    Since page 127 refers to the “investigation citta” as appearing in bhavanga citta, rebirth and death, I assume what is meant must be the above V and A cittas, right?

    Page 122:
    “Adverting (±vajjana): When an object impinges at one of the
    sense doors or at the mind door, there occurs a mind-moment called
    bhavanga-calana, vibration of the life-continuum, by which the bhavanga
    consciousness “vibrates” for a single moment. This is followed by another
    moment called bhavanga-upaccheda, arrest of the life-continuum, by
    which the flow of the bhavanga is cut off. Immediately after this, a citta
    arises turning to the object, either at one of the five physical sense doors
    or at the mind door. This function of turning to the object is termed
    adverting.”

    Page 139:”A mental object apprehended in the mind door in the last javana
    process of the previous existence may become an object of the rebirth-
    linking, bhavanga, and death consciousnesses of the new existence as a
    kamma or as a sign of kamma that is past. If the object should be a sign
    of destiny, it is usually a visible form apprehended in the mind door and
    is present.”

    Bhikkhu Bodhis book talks about Process-freed cittas, which is something that you dispute, right? For you, there is no bhavanga citta but only a state of Bhavanga..?

    in reply to: post on Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta #35962
    DanielSt
    Participant

    On page 127, you can see that “investigating consciousness” does not only perform the function of “investigating” inside a CV, but also the function of Bhavanga, which might be what we are looking for, because this is the citta that precedes the functional “Manodvara citta” inside a Minddoor process, and also it is a resultant (vipaka).

    What do you think?
    Page 127 should explain it.

    in reply to: post on Akusala Citta and Akusala Vipāka Citta #35939
    DanielSt
    Participant

    I want to try to write what I think to your discussion.

    On page 43 in Bhikkhu Bodhi’s book, he lists the unwholesome-resultant cittas, the wholesome- resultant cittas and the functional cittas that comprise all the rootless cittas.

    In the unwholesome-vipaka list, there are the 5 that lead to the 5 senses- event that Lal list in his article. Then there are two more unwholesome-resultants, the receiving and investigating consciousness.

    I think the name for these is referring to their function, as in “receiving consciousness” does the job of “receiving” in a Citta vitthi. But not necessarily, I think, because there is a list at page 127, that you also refer to already, where it is explained in more detail.

    The same holds for the wholesome-vipakas, here there is a whole-some vipaka citta called “investigating consciousness” (with equanimity, and also with joy).

    I think the citta that you refer to in this discussion should be the citta Nr. 19 (unwholesome investigating consciousness accompanied by equanimity) as well as citta number 26 (wholesome investigating consciousness acc. by equanimity).

    On page 127, it is shown that these two cittas can perform the function of “Rebirth, bhavanga, death”. Since the bhavanga state is not equal to the bhavanga citta, and the former is not a citta but the latter is (that is why Asanna does not have any citta arising except for the last moments) here what Bhikkhu Bodhi means with “bhavanga” as a function we can understand it as the “Arrest bhavanga” and “Vibrational bhavanga” which are cittas that preceed the Mind-Door Adverting consciousness “M” in a Mind-Door Process, see page 166.

    I appreciate your feedback on this idea.

    Best wishes,
    Daniel

    in reply to: Gandhabba Timespan #35554
    DanielSt
    Participant

    I can also imagine that some Gandhabba, if inclined to Dhamma, will seek out appropriate places for listening to Dhamma.

    From my understanding, yes, there should be possessions possible. I watched some videos about a Christian exorcist, he reported about several “demons” even taking possession of a woman. I think they must coexist in some way with the original owner of the body/Gandhabba.

    In my view, these phenomena are well explained with Gandhabba as well.

    (In another forum discussion, we discussed the case of baby-bodys, whose “ownership” can change -one Gandhabb leaving and another entering/being pulled inside (and using the body for the rest of his life)This also is explained well.)

    in reply to: Sutta about Bimbisara #35482
    DanielSt
    Participant

    So, in the Sutta:
    “This is the seventh time I have been reborn in the company of the Great King Vessavaṇa. After passing away from there, I am now able to become a king of non-humans.

    Idaṁ sattamaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, vessavaṇassa mahārājassa sahabyataṁ upapajjāmi, so tato cuto manussarājā bhavituṁ pahomi.

    Seven from here, seven from there—
    Ito satta tato satta,
    fourteen transmigrations in all.
    saṁsārāni catuddasa;
    That’s how many past lives
    Nivāsamabhijānāmi
    I can recollect.
    yattha me vusitaṁ pure.


    Here he refers to 7 lives together with King Vessavana, and 7 lives before that, in your interpretation?

    Since all these 14 births are occuring in maximally the amount of a few decades (considering the fact that the Buddha was still alive) we can assume the lives were rather short.

    in reply to: Sutta about Bimbisara #35476
    DanielSt
    Participant

    Yes, I know what you mean.

    But is it necessary from the Sutta, that King Bimbisara had these 14 jati after attaining the Sotapanna stage?

    What if he can remember previous lives before he attained the Sotapanna stage?

    He only said he can remember 14 Lifes (jati). Not that he can remember them since he became Sottapanna.

    I feel, the Translation by Bhikkhu Sujato does allow for that possibility.

    in reply to: Rebirth Account of Dorothy Eady #35418
    DanielSt
    Participant

    A Gandhabba also has rupa, but not such gross or dense rupa as this physical body. Lal explained on the articles that a Gandhabba always, at least, has the kammaja kaya (hadaya vatthu where the consciousness arised, as well as 5 sense-base pasada rupa). Especially if it leaves a body after death, it usually takes a small amount of matter related to the “image and form” of the deceased body with it, as far as I understand. So, it has matter and form, but that form is not visible to us with our physical eyes (while we are embodied).

    in reply to: Rebirth Account of Dorothy Eady #35360
    DanielSt
    Participant

    “So there was a continuity, it was the same individual, from the time he saw Dipankara Buddha, till the time he got enlightened under the Bodhi tree.
    What was it which remained same throughout that period?
    Is it the same Gandhabba undergoing slight modifications but still the same.”

    Consider a river. A river consists of a flow of water particles, that are in constant motion. The water level on one spot might differ from the water level on another spot, as well as changing at every spot all the time.
    That might be an analogy of the “energy flux” that makes up a Gandhabba. The qualities of that flux depend on condition, just in the same way that the water level on one spot of the river depends on conditions (how much it rained, whether there are dams build along the river, time of the year).

    So in one way, there was nothing the same between the phenomena we call “the Bodhisatta” at the time he met Buddha Dipankara and when he himself became a Buddha. But any lifestream, through the thoughts and abhisankharas created, conditions it’s future shape and qualities.
    A river that was once a big river can become just a small dirty flow of water, if the appropriate conditions start appearing. In the case of a river, the nature or man can make these appear by using extensive amoubts of water, chemical factories, and so on.
    In the case of the lifestream, the current phenomena can condition future phenomena. Whatever habits and intentions “you” cultivate will grow, and that is how the Bodhisatta grew in the journey of co pleting his qualities.

    But as it is in the case of the river, where is the “river” itself? It is only a name for a number of causally interconnected phenomena, which themselves are arising because of causes and conditions being present, and generating new upfollowing causes for future phenomena.

    A river is not the same feom one moment to the next, but it is also not “something entirely new”.
    That would be my contribution to your question. I hope, it can be helpful.

    Best wishes,
    Daniel

    in reply to: Split Reincarnation #35342
    DanielSt
    Participant

    I agree with you on the Charles Parkhurst case.

    The simultaneous controlling of multiple bodies seems far fetched. The overlap is big, more than 20 years.

    From the case I read in Dr. Stevenson’s book, it seems however possible to me, that Gandhabba can take hold of a body that is already developed more than just a baby in the womb.

    But this would have to mean that the original Gandhabba controlling the body leaves for some good reason. And it would imply a noticable change of personality reported by the people surrounding that body.

    In the case of Kohler and Schulz, it is one of the cases where the overlap is small, maximum 1 or 2 years. Then, a change in personality might not be discernable.
    Possibly Rupert subconsciously matched his past, or it was true. The original Gandhabba of Rupert’s body just left around the time of Helmut Kohler’s death.

    If you want, I can send you the report on the case studied in the book that I mentioned above, where the individual reports that he has been advised to “enter the body” of the 3,5 year old child by a “sadu” (holy spirit/Gandhabba).

    Another interesting case is that of

    Nai Leng Consciously Experiences Death & Rebirth: Past Life Story of Nai Leng | Chaokhun Rajsuthajarn (Choate)

    It is interesting because there is a description of a conscious “entering womb process”. The Person describes his time as a Gandhabba, visiting his pregnant sister, adoring the child she gave birth to, and somehow finding himself being drawn into the body of that baby, taking hold of that baby.
    I assume the original Gandhabb left.

    Here is a quote:”
    Reincarnation: Nai Leng Enters Choate’s Infant Body

    “After a while, thinking that she was again asleep, I came out to get another glimpse of the child. She again opened her eyes and said the same thing to me. I went back to hide. I told myself that the time had come for me to decide once and for all. I was torn between two feelings. Although I would like to stay, yet I should go; indeed I must go. Before leaving, however, I wish to get another good look at the child. This time I dared not approach lest she reproach me once more. Thus, I poked only my head out. After obtaining a good look, I started to go away again.

    As soon as I turned, my body began spinning like a top. I could not regain my balance. I tried to cover my head, face and ears with my hands before I fell unconscious. At that point I thought I was dead.

    I did not know how long it was before I regained consciousness. I was wondering where I was. Concentration and recollection told me that not long before this I was Nai Leng. I felt myself full of vigor. Recalling all of the past, I wondered why I was in such a helpless condition. I felt somewhat frustrated.” (9)

    Lal, you may move the discussion to the Gandhabba forum. I am sorry for mixing up the two.

    in reply to: Split Reincarnation #35325
    DanielSt
    Participant

    Unfortunately, it is hard to find very well documented cases, or at least I am not advanced in that search yet.

    The case I explained upon is a case where a gandhabba takes hold of a 3,5 year old child, whose old Gandhabba has left.

    Another case is this one, that would be a good recommendation:
    https://www.reincarnationresearch.com/past-life-story-of-charles-parkhurst-penney-peirce-spirit-being-or-spirit-guide-past-life-identification-in-a-reincarnation-case/”

    The relevant part:”The compelling reincarnation cases of  Charles Parkhurst | Penney Peirce and Alice Cary | Penny Peirce demonstrate a very interesting and important phenomenon, that a soul can animate two different bodies at the same time. I have termed this split incarnation, as it appears that the soul can split itself, or project itself, into different physical bodies at the same time, This phenomenon has also been called parallel lives.

    Alice Cary, the earliest incarnation in this series of lives, was born in 1820 and died in 1871. Charles Parkhurst was born in 1842, at a time when Alice Cary was 22 years old. Alice Cary died in 1871 at the age of 51, at time when Parkhurst was 29 years old. As such, the lifetimes of Cary and Parkhurst overlapped by 29 years.

    Parkhurst died 52 years after the death of Alice Cary, in 1933. Penney Peirce was born in 1949, 16 years after Parkhurst’s death, 50 miles from the location where Parkhurst died.

    A very compelling Ian Stevenson, MD past life case involving split incarnation is: The Reincarnation Case of Helmut Kohler | Ruprecht Schultz

    Did Cary and Parkhurst Ever Meet?

    It is of interest to wonder if Alice Cary and Charles Parkhurst ever crossed paths. Though there is no evidence to support that Cary and Parkhurst ever met, it appears that they did come in close proximity to each other. In 1850, Alice, at 30 years of age, journeyed from Ohio to visit John Greenleaf Whittier at his Massachusetts home, not far from where Parkhurst was living on his family’s farm in Framingham. Parkhurst was as an 8-year-old boy at the time.

    The two people had another episode of geographic proximity 20 years later, in the summer of 1870 when Alice Cary made her last foray out of New York City to visit friends in Northampton, Massachusetts. Cary was 50 years old at the time. Parkhurst, who was now 28 years of age, was living nearby in Massachusetts and was married in Northhampton 8 months later.

    Parkhurst moved to New York in 1880, nine years after Cary died. Though it appears that the two never met, it is likely that Parkhurst knew of Cary. When Parkhurst was a young man, Cary was in her prime as an author, contributing to many popular magazines of the time. It is possible that Parkhurst read articles written by his split, Alice Cary.

    It is open to question whether Parkhurst underwent a change of Gandhabba when he was 29 years old.
    Or whether one Gandhabba can control both bodies? Seems like a supernormal power to me. There are no reports about a “change of personality” in the article, relating to a Gandhabba-takeover at adult age.

    But I think that it seems reasonable that Gandhabba can enter “left bodies” even when they are fully grown, and, under appropriate conditions, continue living with them.

    What do you think?

    in reply to: Split Reincarnation #35322
    DanielSt
    Participant

    I just read the case details in Ian Stevenson’s book.

    Apparently this was a case where a baby, three and a half years old, was on the verge of dying. The Gandhabba of the baby left already, but another Gandhabba of a man who died in a nearby village was advised to “seek shelter” (by another spirit) in the dying body of the 3,5 year old child. The child recovered from the illness and was noticably changed in his personality.

    This is only the summary. For more details, the case is well documented.

    In this case, it is visible that what happened is a Gandhabba-takeover, not a simultaneous growth and living in two bodies. One might suspect that this is the case for the other cases as well, but I am open for any contrary evidence.

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