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Good one. I did not intend any pun, but I liked your take on it!
Indeed, the search has ended, and it was a long one — almost 30 years. Like you said, it is now about walking ON the path; the search for the path is over, and for that I am eternally grateful.
I remember reading from “What The Buddha Taught” (Walpola Rahula) where the Buddha told Ananda that he did not have public teachings on the one hand and secret teachings on the other; that there is nothing witheld in “the closed fist of the teacher”.
For a number of years in the past, I’ve had my share of exposure to the “faster way to salvation” (mostly Mahāyāna), and sudden enlightenment (mostly Zen). More esoteric schools then evolved from Mahayaha, where there are public and private teachings (Tantra, Vajrayana, etc.). They are very alluring to certain types of people; and summbodhi’s analogy to MLM, although crude, is apt here.
Anyhow, we are very lucky to have ended up here instead.
Got it. Thank you!
I was trying to ask (in an unclear way) whether or not we can be conscious of mano sankhara (as in whether or not mano sankhara is noticeable), and it looks like they are, although they are automatic due to gati. Take the example of seeing an object and the initial liking of it; although that liking is automatic, it is noticeable and observable.
This is good news, right? since if we can notice gati, then we can work to reduce bad ones and cultivate good ones. Elsewhere in other forums, I shared that I am now mainly working on removing miccha ditthi to get to the sotapanna stage. Nowadays, quite often I can “catch” miccha ditthi, which is a mano sankhara, when it happens, and then counter it.
Best.
So, we can never “see” mano sankhara, but we can see the effect of it.
Let’s say that an unwholesome conscious thought is present, such as a thought of violence toward someone; then we know that there is unwholesome mano sankhara behind it.
On the other hand, if we observe a wholesome thought in ourselves, such as a thought of generosity, then we know that wholesome mano sankhara is happening.
Lal said: “When we speak, in addition to the sound coming out, our thoughts “emit” the idea to the external world too.”
Is it correct to say that the sounds coming out is vaci sankhara, and the ideas emitted from the thoughts mano sankhara?
Thank you
Thank you, Lal.
As we spend more and more time on puredhamma.net, we are more drawn to Pali, so knowing a bit more about the language like this is exciting.
On an unrelated matter, I wrote these responses in Internet Explorer. Lal mentioned a bug in the system, and often posts did not get published. I experienced that several times, and Lal helped me post. I was using either Chrome or Firefox then, and this time, I used IE, and it went through! You may want to give it a try.
I think I see the difference: there is an extra mark at the end to indicate plurality, the mark that looks like the letter “C” reversed; and written in English, I believe this is represented as the dash above the letter a: ā.
If this is the case, then does it apply to nouns ending in vowels other than a, such as:
1 bikkhu –> many bhikkhū
1 bikkhuni –> many bhikkhunīBack to the word “dhamma”. Is it true to say that:
“dhamma” as in what one bears is always plural: dhammā
“dhamma” as in buddha dhamma is singular: dhammaThank you
LangLal said: “In other words, in “saññā nirodha” thoughts arise without much of past memories….”
Is this similar to Alzheimer’s / dementia?
I’m in a position to be in contact with elderly people with this condition. They exhibit: (1) almost no short term memory, (2) not able to keep track of date/time, and (3) thoughts that arise seem disjointed from one another.
This seems uncannily similar to saññā nirodha. If anyone has insights into communicating with those with Alzheimer’s / dementia, please share.
Metta
It is indeed HARD to just ignore feelings, even in a retreat, at least for me. There is a long discussion about Goenka’s technique in the meditation forum, and this is exactly what they do there: scanning the body from head to toes, observing the sukha and dukha vedana (kayika vedana), and maintaining a neutral mindset about them — no craving for sukha vedana and no aversion for dukha vedana, because all vedana come and go (or arise and pass away). Seeing this coming and going (or arising and passing) of vedana means beginning to see anicca.
Lal said: “The key is to truly understand that there is no “experiencer.” That will really help to suppress the “mind-made” vedana or samphassa-jā-vēdanā.”
Using this approach, if we feel a vedana (say a pain in the knee), instead of watching the “impermanent” nature of the pain, we can contemplate that there is no “feeler” behind that pain, right? That the pain is just kamma vipaka?
If that’s the case, I suppose we can extend that to the other senses? Take hearing as an example. Sometimes, I am bothered by surrounding noises while sitting. Will it be helpful to contemplate that there is no “hearer” involved.
To take this even further, I wonder if we can apply this to breathing. I still have a habit of doing breath meditation, although I’m learning to wean from it after reading the Meditation section. But, using this context, instead of doing breath meditation as a samatha method, is it ok to do it to contemplate that there is no “breather” behind the breathing?
Thank you all,
LangThis discussion makes me remember a couple of Pali terms I read elsewhere: sotapatti magga and sotapatti phala.
Is it correct to say that a Sotapanna Anugami is one who has attained sotapatti magga, and that a Sotapanna is one who has attained sotapatti phala?
Thank you,
Lang“They think that Nibbana is the extinction of a “person””
From my experience, when talking to people who view Nibbana as “extinction”, I sense an unease in them: there is no one left to “enjoy” Nibbana.
To make matters worse is the translation of “Parinibbana” in my native language. “Parinibbana” is translated as “Enter Nibbana”. Thus the Buddha’s Parinibbana is translated as: “The Buddha entered Nibbana”. This gives the imagery of Nibbana as a “place” of eternal happiness, like an eternal heaven.
If this happens in your native languages, then beware of it. At puredhamma.net, we are fortunate to have Lal explain Dhamma concepts in Pali terms. After the concepts sink in, we can contemplate Dhamma concepts directly with Pali.
For me, a great example of this is Lal’s explanation of Paticca samuppāda (pati + ichcha leading to sama uppada). With that understanding, looking at “Paticca samuppāda”, we can see the meaning staring right at us, without resorting to a rendering to another language such as “dependent origination”, “dependent co-arising”, etc. In my native language, it is rendered “twelve-link conditionals”. (As an aside, “anatta” is also literally “no self” in my language).
One more thing to be wary of: in “sabbe dhammā anatta”, some very well-known teachers include Nibbana in here (dhammā), and that anatta is “no self”; and thus consequently “Nibbana is no self” . I know this for a fact, since I saw this time and time again prior to puredhamma.net, and I’m still seeing it taught this way, as I’m sure you are too.
If we make the effort to learn the Pali words (at least the key ones), we can cut down on a lot of overthinking.
Best,
LangWow, fascinating discussion. In the example of seeing the tree, I used to think of the tree as a vanna rupa. Thank you for the clarification between a vanna rupa and a sankata, and similarly for other types of rupa.
Lal wrote:
– The contact (phassa) is made between the vanna rupa (the picture captured with the aid of eyes) and the internal rupa, which is the cakkhu pasada rupa that is in our mental body (gandhabba).
– That contact (phassa) can become a “defiled contact” (samphassa) if one’s greedy gati automatically incorporated by the mind; see, “Difference between Phassa and Samphassa”.Instead of a tree, let’s say it is a very attractive, enticing object. If I remember correctly from the abhidhamma section, then the cakkhudvara citta vithi from seeing that object is followed by 3 manodvara citta vithi. Does the samphassa happen in those thrree manodvara citta vithi?
If that is the case, then for an arahant, are there still 3 (pure) manodvara citta vithi following the cakkhudvara citta vithi, or are there no manodvara citta vithi following it at all?
Thank you,
Lang… just one follow-up thought from the above: Can a human gandhabba travel from one cakkavāla to another?
This is just fascinating material! I’ve read the post a few times, plus the links it points to; all of this does increase my faith in Buddha Dhamma, but at the same time, I can’t help being curious about a couple of things:
1) I wonder why nature works out in such a way that the odds are so high against humans having access to Buddha Dhamma: being born in the human bhava (rare), AND in a Buddha Sasana (rare), AND in the right cakkavāla (out of 10,000).
Lal has explained how low the chance of being born to the human realm is (How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm). One would like to think that after such a rare event, the odds of coming in contact with Buddha Dhamma would be relatively high. Yet, after “making it” as a human, one may go for 30 kappas without a Buddha, or one may be in the “wrong” cakkavāla.
This can make one feel quite scared about NOT making the sotapanna stage in this life. Furthermore, it makes one feel scared for his/her loved ones who are paying no attention to Buddha Dhamma and are actively engaged in sansara.
In this context, it seems better to be born a deva or brahma, since if they are born in a Buddha Sasana but in the “wrong” cakkavāla they can still “travel” to hear Dhamma.
2)
Lal said: “Even after the end of the Kassapa Buddha Sāsana, his teachings were transmitted as Vedic teachings, of course without the deeper meanings.”It seems like the Hindus were better at “record keeping” than the Buddhists. When a Buddha Sasana ends, do all traces of Dhamma disappear? For example, the Tipitaka from the time of Kassapa Buddha was just gone?
Thank you so much for these wonderful posts!
Lang
