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“The Buddha said that after he had mahaparinibbana, Only the Dhamma and Vinaya will be our teachers. “
- There is no contradiction. Abhidhamma is also Dhamma.
- Abhidhamma is the same as Dhamma in the Sutta Pitaka, but it is presented a bit differently (systematically and analytically).
- Here is a rough analogy that can give the idea. To drive a car, one does not need to understand the physics and engineering of how it is built. However, if the car breaks down while driving, that person cannot fix even a minor problem and could get stuck. However, someone with a bit of knowledge about the car may be able to fix a minor issue. A mechanic with more knowledge about the car’s construction may be able to fix more problems.
- That is how we should look at Abhidhamma. The more Abhidhamma knowledge one has, the easier it becomes to resolve some issues that may arise while studying suttas.
- Also see “Abhidhamma – Introduction.”
P.S. As discussed in that post, Abhidhamma was not taught to the public at the time of the Buddha. The Buddha described the Abhidhamma framework to Ven. Sariputta, and it took over 200 years for bhikkhus to develop the Abhidhamma theory fully. Only ready parts were recited in the early Sangayanas (Buddhist Councils), and the completed Abhidhamma Pitaka was recited in the third Council about 250 years after the Parinibbana of the Buddha. See #7 in the post.
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Regarding my above comment, also see #7 of the post, “Ārammaṇa (Sensory Input) Initiates Critical Processes.”
- These are details that cannot be discussed in one post.
- I started discussing “distorted saññā” with the post “Uncovering the Suffering-Free (Pabhassara) Mind ” posted on 8/5/23. All posts after this date can be found in “New/ Revised Posts.”
- Please feel free to ask questions from any of those posts. There could be minor errors in those early posts. Please refer to the specific post and the bullet # when asking questions.
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Yes. It is a subtle point.
- Rupavacara and arupavacara Brahmas‘ minds only go through the “purana kamma” stage. Since they attach to the initial “distorted sanna,” they do generate abhisankhara. However, they do not generate strong kammic energies that lead to rebirth. (All living beings have generated enough kammic energies to bring numerous rebirths while in the kama loka. Thus, those Brahmas will be reborn in lower realms after dying from those realms.)
- Potent/strong kammic energies that can lead to new rebirths are generated in the “nava kamma” stage, particularly when engaging in kaya, vaci, and mano kamma. You may have noticed that the “nava kamma stage” is absent in the charts showing rupa and arupa loka. See, for example, the chart above #13 in “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation,” which I reproduce below.
Download/Print: “Purāna and Nava Kamma -3“
- The “nava kamma” stage is where the “cone” expands to show the “growth of vinnana” or the ‘accumulation of new and potent kamma.” That “expanding cone” is present only in kama loka. In that context, rupa and arupa loka Brahmas DO NOT have dense bodies to generate kaya kamma (to engage in killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct). Furthermore, since they are not aware of such actions (e.g., no males/females in those realms), even corresponding vaci kamma ( with vaci sankhara) can not happen.
- In #13 in the above post, I wrote the following: “For example, anariya Brahma in a “rupa loka Brahma realm” only receives the “distorted saññā” of “rupāvacara jhānic sukha” and will automatically attach to it with “saññā vipallāsa.” They do not accumulate more kamma but will return to kāma loka at the end of Brahma‘s life. Unlike in the kāma loka, there is no way to accumulate (strong) kamma in the rupa or arupa Brahma realms.”
- I just now revised the last sentence to emphasize that point: “Unlike in the kāma loka, there is no way to accumulate strong kamma (that can bring rebirths) while in the rupa or arupa Brahma realms.”
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1. “Do you mean that any thought without raga, dosa or moha, without wrong views and without wrong actions is mindfulness?”
- Yes.
2. “So, for example, to spend the whole day thinking about the long, long history of China is being mindful?”
- No. Thinking about anything associated with the world is done with moha or avijja.
Let me try to explain that as simply as possible.
- Existence anywhere in this world (as a human, animal, Deva, Brahma, etc.) prolongs suffering. Even though humans (or Devas or Brahmas) experience both happiness and suffering, we are all born in the lower four realms (including the animal realm) most of the time in the “beginningless rebirth process.” In other words, any living being experiences much more suffering than happiness in the long term.
- To end suffering, we need to attain Nibbana. That means breaking the ten “samsaric bonds” (samyojana) that bind a mind to the rebirth process. It happens in stages. One must first understand the “worldview of the Buddha” to attain the first stage of Nibbana, i.e., the Sotapanna stage. See “Attaining Nibbāna Requires Understanding Buddha’s Worldview.” I provided that link in my above comment. I suggest you read that carefully first, including the links in that post. It is not easy to understand the “worldview of the Buddha,” so please take the time to read it carefully.
- Based on your questions about that post, I can suggest more to read. However, since I do not know your level of understanding of Buddha’s teachings, I can only answer questions about specific issues that come up.
- If you are new to learning Buddha Dhamma, I suggest scanning through posts in the following sections (especially if the above post is too advanced). Moral Living and Fundamentals, Essential Buddhism | Pure Dhamma, Buddhism – In Charts | Pure Dhamma. (in that order). You can stay on this thread in the forum, but please refer to any specific post that you ask the questions.
If raga, dosa, or moha arise in the mind, that will lead to unpleasant vipaka in the future, including rebirths in the lower realms.
- Thus, being mindful is to avoid such akusala thoughts.
- However, until the samyojana (samsaric bonds) are broken by comprehending the Buddha’s worldview, it is impossible to avoid all akusala thoughts forcefully.
- Thus, to break the samyojana, one should do the best to avoid akusala thoughts AND learn Buddha Dhamma (Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada, etc.).
P.S. See “Attaining Nibbāna Requires Understanding Buddha’s Worldview.”
Yes. In some early posts, I may have written “defiled saññā” instead of “distorted saññā.” It should ALWAYS be “distorted saññā.”
- It is a bit tricky to translate “saññā vipallāsa.” Furthermore, in most cases, just saññā is used without explicitly referring to the fact that it is a “distorted saññā” that arises in anyone (The only exceptions are when an Arahant is in Arahant-phala samapatti or nirodha samapatti. ) When engaging in day-to-day activities, even an Arahant generates a “distorted saññā” because it is built into our bodies. For example, an Arahant will taste honey to be sweet because it is a “distorted saññā.” However, Arahant’s mind will not be attached to that taste, i.e., they don’t generate raga, dosa, moha because of the“distorted saññā.”
- I have revised that post (including the title): “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted Saññā.”
You wrote: “The last sentence says that arupavacara Brahamas have ‘defiled saññā’.”
- I revised it to: “they also have a “distorted saññā” about ākāsa and viññāṇa.”
- They also attach to that “distorted saññā” since they had cultivated anariya arupavacara samapatti.
You wrote: “i) When living being generates ‘defiled saññā’, it automatically creates abhisankhara and kamma vinnana.”
- It should be “i) When living being generates ‘distorted saññā’, it automatically creates abhisankhara and kamma vinnana.”
- That is correct, as long as the corresponding samyojana are not broken. Arahants do not generate abhisankhara and kamma vinnana via ‘distorted saññā.’
You wrote: “ii) But arupavacara Brahmas don’t generates kamma.”
- They do generate kamma via attaching to the ‘distorted saññā’ because they have not removed arupa raga samyojana.
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I realized I skipped the first part of Amin’s comment in my above answer.
Amin wrote the following in the first part of his comment:
“3. How to properly apply the “asubha anusati”, to stop the advance of impurities?
Such as lustful thoughts and sexual desires.• The usual method that I have heard and put into practice is; getting into some kind of Samadhi and then beginning to visualize the internal organs.
Taking them out and looking at the organs, and making it as real as possible, such as the blood, smell, etc…
And repeating this process over and over again with more details.• After practicing in this manner for a few months I begin to notice a few things.
° Such as excessive irritation.
° Depress mindset.
° And Strange behaviors; I begin visiting the graveyard too much!
Etc.• I don’t think there was any development of wisdom.” (highlighting is mine)
___________
That conclusion is correct. See the posts in “Maha Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta.”
- As I remember, some of those issues are discussed.
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Such an explanation with a single comment is impossible.
- I just started on a series of posts that can help answer your questions: “Buddhist Worldview – Introduction.” It will take many posts to address all related issues.
- You or anyone else can ask questions about these posts. When asking a question, please quote the point (or the bullet number) that is unclear.
- I have already done a series to discuss the topic: “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” Anyone can ask questions from those posts, too. But please refer to the specific post and bullet number(s) when asking questions.
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Yes, this is a common problem. Although it may be a bit more pervasive in Nepal and Tibet, following rituals or having ingrained wrong views can be seen everywhere.
- We must be careful when handling such situations, especially those with magga phala, who must be cautious. Putting too much pressure on those with wrong views could make them angry with you, which could trigger bad vipaka for them (Ariya upavāda.)
- A good example is Cundasukara’s account. He was a butcher who killed pigs every day. He lived next to Jetavanaramaya, and the bhikkhus could hear the painful yelping of pigs being killed. They asked the Buddha why he would not try to teach Dhamma to Cundasukara. The Buddha explained as follows: Cundasukara is destined to be reborn in a bad realm, but if the Buddha tried to explain Dhamma and he got angry with the Buddha, he would be reborn in an even worse realm.
- This is why I stopped engaging in debates in online forums a few years ago. I could do more harm than good if I “trigger” anger in some people.
- So, we need to try to balance the two aspects. Of course, we must help others learn, but we must also be mindful of specific situations.
- Here is a related post: “Right Speech – How to avoid Accumulating Bad Kamma“
P.S. Good comment by Dawson.
Here is another way to look at it.
- Only a Buddha can discover the “correct worldview.”
- All others have wrong views until they learn the “correct worldview” from a Buddha or a true disciple of the Buddha (Ariya).
- Those Ariyas below the Arahant stage may have minor wrong views (but not the three samyojana of sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa).
I’m glad to hear that you have gotten rid of some wrong views. That is called “making progress.” We all started with many wrong views.
- You wrote: “In Chinese it is said, 天上天下无如佛, meaning, above in heaven and below on the earth there is nothing comparable to the Buddha.”
- Indeed! That is “real saddhā” or “faith that comes with understanding”!
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Yes. “gomayaṁ khipanti” means “pelting with cow-dung. See “Gomayapiṇḍa Sutta (SN 22.96).”
- However, it does not mean they pelted someone with cow dung to show displeasure in those early days. Cows were not on Earth in those early days. We don’t even know whether they had “dirt/mud” then.
- But the idea is that they were pelted with undesired things available at that time to displeasure for their “lowly deed,” i.e., sexual activity.
Taryal wrote: “And even today people in some countries, when carrying a bride off, pelt her with dirt, clods, or cow-dung.”
- In many other countries, it is customary to throw flowers (or rice or even money) at the bride (or the couple).
- Both those traditions may have evolved from “pelting undesirable things at those caught having sexual relations to show displeasure.”
It would be helpful if you can point out where in the sutta it appears: “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”
I don’t think that is a reliable reference.
- I asked Grok; see my above comment. You can ask Chat GPT (or another AI), and report your findings.
- Also, don’t write comments that are not useful. Stick to the facts. I deleted such a comment.
P.S. I spent some time with Grok, and here is a better description.
The Vedas were primarily an oral tradition for a considerable period before they were written down. According to various sources:-
The Rigveda, which is considered the oldest among the Vedas, might have been composed orally between 1500 and 1000 BCE. However, it was not written down until much later. The oldest surviving manuscripts of the Vedas date to around the 11th century CE, with specific references to the Vajasaneyi Samhita from around 1050 AD.
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Other sources suggest that the Vedas were likely first committed to writing between 500 BCE and 300 BCE, with some scholars proposing that the Brahmi script, which emerged around this time, might have been used. However, it’s widely acknowledged that the Vedas were passed down through oral tradition for centuries before this. The exact timing of when they were first written down is not precisely known due to the lack of early manuscripts.
Given the nature of oral transmission and the eventual written documentation, these dates provide a range rather than a singular event for when the Vedas were first written down.References:-
Witzel, M. (1995). “Early Indian history: Linguistic and textual parametres.” In The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia (ed. G. Erdosy). Walter de Gruyter. This work discusses the oral tradition and the transition to written texts.
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Staal, F. (2008). “Discovering the Vedas: Origins, Mantras, Rituals, Insights.” Penguin Books India. This book provides insights into the composition and preservation of the Vedas, including their oral tradition and later manuscript evidence.
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Gonda, J. (1975). “Vedic Literature (Samhitās and Brāhmaṇas).” Otto Harrassowitz Verlag. Gonda’s work delves into the textual history of Vedic literature, offering scholarly perspectives on when these texts might have been written.
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Oberlies, T. (1998). “Die Religion des Ṛgveda.” Wien: Institut für Indologie der Universität Wien. Oberlies discusses the dating of the Rigveda and its transition from oral to written form.
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Kashikar, C.G. (1964). “A Survey of the Manuscripts of the Ṛgveda.” Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 84, No. 1. This provides an overview of the oldest manuscripts of the Rigveda.
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Biardeau, M. (1964). “Théorie de la Connaissance et Philosophie de la Parole dans le Brahmanisme Classique.” Mouton & Co., particularly for understanding the role of oral tradition in Vedic texts.
These references collectively provide a scholarly understanding of the timeline when the Vedas might have been written down, acknowledging the predominance of oral tradition before the advent of written manuscripts. Remember, exact dates are often speculative due to the nature of ancient texts and the absence of early written records.1 user thanked author for this post.
That is misleading.
- Writing the Vedas or the Tipitaka using those methods will take forever. Furthermore, wide distribution among the population would not be practical.
- Writing on leaves was perfected (so that the Tipitaka could be written on leaves) after the Parinibbana of the Buddha. Scholars guess that it happened about 200 to 500 years after the Buddha. Even that is not an easy task. You would realize that if you read the post “Preservation of the Dhamma.”
- I don’t think you guys are reading the posts that I suggest, so I won’t comment on this anymore.
- Don’t get attached to particular views. Have an open mind. Do some research.
P.S. I asked Grok, Elon Musk’s AI. It says:
“Written documentation of the Vedas is believed to have started around 500 BCE, but the oldest surviving manuscripts date back to the 11th century CE. This indicates that while there might have been attempts to write down the Vedas from around 500 BCE, the manuscripts we have today only trace back to the 11th century CE.”
