[Lal]

Taryal is probably going through a rough time, Christian. We should be empathetic to his situation. Additionally, he is a young person with limited life experience. I should have also paid more attention to that.

[Lal]

After posting it, I wondered whether my comments were ‘too harsh.’ I don’t even know whether you wanted to be a Sotapanna. Your concern was probably about finding that person with whom you had a ‘genuine interaction.’ You are also worried about your job situation. My comment was very narrowly focused; I am not qualified to offer advice on mundane issues. 

• So, don’t even worry about replying to my previous post. I hope your mundane issues will get resolved, especially the job situation. Of course, we must be concerned about those mundane things. It is essential to resolve those issues first. Insight meditation requires a ‘settled mind.’
• However, I hope my comments could be beneficial for at least some others. 

 

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jennydo

[Lal]

OK. That is kind of what I expected. I think most of those who read my website probably would say the same. 

1. You wrote at the end of your first post: “If I deserve strong criticism, please don’t hesitate. This kid needs to learn and move forward.”

• The following is not a criticism, but rather my honest evaluation based on your posts, along with a few suggestions.
• Since only a Buddha can determine someone’s ‘status,’ I am not certain whether what I say in #2 is correct. But that is my best guess. I considered not being so direct, but I think it could be useful for many to gauge their ‘status.’

2. My evaluation was based on the following two observations: (i) Your main issue is “Anxiety and Panic attacks after 2 years” and (ii) At the beginning of your first post, you wrote “2 years ago … I saw a video by Daily Stoic’s Ryan Holiday on “memento mori”. 

• Regarding (i): a Sotapanna would not get panic attacks.
• Regarding (ii): I have not studied Stoicism. But I find the following description in “What Is a Stoic Person?” to be revealing of its philosophy: “Stoics thought that, in order to be happy, we must learn to distinguish between what we can control and what we cannot. Those things in our life that we can control, we should try to steer towards their best outcomes for all. Those that we cannot control, we must learn to accept.” 
• I am not sure when you looked into Stoicism. If it was after you “started practicing Dhamma,” that means you were still not certain about Buddha’s teachings. This is not an admonition not to look into other teachings, but one of the characteristics of a Sotapanna is that they have “unbreakable confidence in Buddha’s teachings.” Additionally, regarding the highlighted section in the above quote: With the Buddha’s teachings, we can achieve “total control.”

3. Based on your post in response to my request, I would say that you are at the ‘jānato‘ stage. That means you have “received enough information” about Buddha’s teachings to be able to get to the Sotapanna stage. But to get to the Sotapanna stage, one must have also gone through the ‘passato‘ stage, where one has “seen with wisdom’ the implications of what one learned. See “‘Jānato Passato’ and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”

• Now, to some suggestions.

4. The most critical stage is to reach the Sotapanna stage. The Buddha said that one would have overcome 99% or more of all future suffering at that point. If all future suffering of a puthujjana is compared to the size of the Earth, the amount of suffering left for a Sotapanna is the size of a pebble (small stone). 

• That is because most of the strong/potent kamma are done with wrong views or ‘miccha ditthi.’ In particular, all apayagami kamma (those that can bring rebirth in an apaya) are done with miccha ditthi.
• Thus, the most critical step in following Buddha’s teachings is to first remove the ten types of miccha ditthi (which includes not believing in rebirth and not believing that kamma can (not deterministic, but could) have their corresponding vipaka or results), and then to remove the deeper wrong views/miccha ditthi that ‘sensual pleasures in kama loka‘, ‘jhanic pleasures ‘, or ‘arupa samapatti pleasures’ are beneficial and can lead to overcoming suffering.  
• Most people have removed the ten types of miccha ditthi. Removing deeply ingrained ‘deeper wrong views‘ requires more effort. After all, one would have removed 99% or more of all future suffering at that point.

5. I think a major obstacle in that second phase is to focus on the anicca nature of external objects (one’s possessions and even one’s physical body) and not to focus on the anicca nature of ‘mental constructs’ that arise in the mind based on those external things. 

• There are over 50 suttas in the ‘Vacchagottavagga‘ of ‘Saṁyutta Nikāya 33′ that address the issue of deeper miccha ditthi. In all these suttas, Vacchagotta asks the Buddha the same question: “What is the cause, what is the reason for these various misconceptions (diṭṭhi) to arise?”
• In all those suttas, the Buddha’s answer is the same: “it is because of not knowing each component of the pañca upādānakkhandha, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation.”
• As we know, those five components are rupa upādānakkhandha through viññāṇa upādānakkhandha. In the suttas, these are abbreviated as rupa through viññāṇa (rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa).
• It is obvious that vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa arise in one’s mind. But many people consider rupa to be ‘external objects.’ That leads to serious misconceptions. Here, rupa refers to “the mental image that arises in one’s mind based on an external rupa.” That mental image is based on one’s experience of previous rupa and thus is rupa upādānakkhandha. The ‘upādāna‘ part comes because one’s wrong view that they are ‘real and can be beneficial’. 
• See “Rupa, Vedanā, Saññā, Saṅkhāra, Viññāṇa – Mostly Misunderstood.”

6. Let us consider the first of the 50-plus suttas mentioned above. 

• In the “Rūpaaññāṇa Sutta (SN 33.1),” Vacchagotta asks the Buddha the question: “What is the cause, what is the reason for these various misconceptions (diṭṭhi) to arise?” 
• At marker 1.6, the Buddha answers: “Vaccha, it is because of not knowing rupa, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation.” (The four subsequent suttas in the series repeat the verse for vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa. The rest of the suttas in the series describe various other related aspects.)
• As we discussed above, rupa does not refer to ‘external rupa,’ but the one that arises in one’s mind based on an external rupa. 
• An ‘external rupa‘ can be a sight, sound, taste, smell, or a ‘body touch.’ Let us consider a sight (also called rupa for ‘rupa rupa’ or ‘vanna rupa’ to distinguish from other types). The Buddha has explained that the attachment to a sight (rupa) is experienced in two steps: rupa paṭisaṁvedī, immediately followed by “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī” for those who have not eliminated kama raga samyojana. However, that second step does not occur for an Arahant or an Anagami who has eliminated kama raga samyojana.
• If one can fully understand this, that is one way to become a Sotapanna. See, “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?“

7. The reason that one may attach to a certain ‘external rupa‘ with greed for anyone born a human (puthujjana or Arahant) is the following: That ‘external rupa‘ leads to the creation of an “appealing version of it” in the mind of anyone born a human. The human body and the external world are both “designed via Paticca Samuppada” to provide a “kama sanna” that triggers a “sukha feeling.” 

• The mind of a puthujjana will automatically attach to that ‘mind-made rupa‘ with the ‘subha/kama sanna‘ (rupa paṭisaṁvedī, immediately followed by “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī”). That is the very beginning of a series of attachment steps that may lead to the accumulation of potent kamma. That is why the initial stage is called “purana kamma‘ meaning ‘the initial kamma accumulation stage.’ If further attachment in subsequent steps occurs, it leads to the ‘nava kamma‘ stage, where potent, new kamma is accumulated. There are many posts on the website on this issue; see, for example, “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation .”
• On the other hand, only the rupa paṭisaṁvedī step occurs for an Arahant or an Anāgāmi who has eliminated kāma rāga samyojana. They still feel the ‘sukha vedana‘ due to the “kama sanna,” but their minds do not undergo the “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī” step. 
• Now, a Sotapanna has ‘seen with wisdom’ (with dhamma cakkhu) this process. Thus, they have removed the wrong view that those ‘kama sanna’ are ‘real and can be beneficial’. That has led to the removal of the three ‘ditthi samyojana‘ (sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa). However, since they have not removed the kama raga samyojana, their minds will still become attached and undergo the “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī” step. Still, they are attached with three fewer samyojana than a puthujjana, and that is why those attachment do not lead to ‘apayagami kamma.’ 
• See, for example, “Sotapanna Stage from Kāma Loka.”

8. Also see “Avijjā is Triggered by Kāma Saññā in Kāma Loka” and other recent posts in “New / Revised Posts.”

• One cannot hope to eliminate “99% or more of all future suffering” by just casually reading a few posts. One must make a serious effort! I am not saying this to anyone specifically; it is the truth. Think about how much time a person spends getting a good education. That will hold only for this lifetime. Reaching the Sotapanna stage is for an eternity!

9. Please feel free to ask questions to clarify any issues that may not have been addressed. It is impossible to do that in a single post.  But I thought some of you could benefit from the above summary. The key is to ask questions to clarify any ‘difficult issues.’ I may write a hundred posts without addressing them, because I’m unsure how much of what I write people understand.

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taryal, jennydo

[Lal]

I read Taryal’s post carefully and would like to ask him some questions. Please feel free to reply to only those you feel comfortable answering.

1. What do you mean when you say, “Long story short, I became a Dhamma practitioner and I am happy to say that so much of my mental vexations naturally went away.” Briefly explain (only if you feel comfortable) what the ‘practice’ means.

2. Do you believe in rebirth? How much do you understand about concepts like the anicca nature and Paticca Samuppada?

• Have you read the post “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“?
• Have you read my posts on (distorted) saññā? If so, what do you think are the major implications of it?

3. Regardless of whether you answer those or to what extent, I can make some general comments. My questions are designed to gauge your level of understanding, so that I MAY BE able to provide some specific suggestions. I know that you are a well-educated and intelligent young person. But those are different from “understanding of Buddha’s teachings.” Please take your time to respond.

[Lal]

1. There are eight Ariyā (Noble Persons) or “aṭṭha purisa puggalā”. They are Sōtapanna Anugāmi, Sōtapanna, Sakadāgāmi Anugāmi, Sakadāgāmi, Anāgāmi Anugāmi, Anāgāmi, Arahant Anugāmi, and Arahant.

• The term “Cula Sotāpanna” is used by some (in the Commentaries) to denote a Sōtapanna Anugāmi. However, I have not seen that term in the Sutta Pitaka.
• In the Sutta Pitaka, a Sōtapanna Anugāmi is categorized in two types: Dhammānusārī and Saddhānusārī. See #2 of Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās.
• In the sutta quoted by Jittananto, those two categories are also mentioned: “evameva kho, bhikkhave, ye te bhikkhū dhammānusārino saddhānusārino, tepi tiriyaṁ mārassa sotaṁ chetvā sotthinā pāraṁ gamissanti.”

2. The “Khandha Sutta (SN 25.10)” is a short sutta that describes how one can become a Dhammānusārī and Saddhānusārī, and that they are also released from rebirth in the apayas.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

I am sorry to hear about your issue, Taryal. I will think about it and post a comment later today ot tomorrow. 

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Jittananto

[Lal]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience, DhammaSponge!

• Your descriptive comment reveals that you have indeed grasped the fundamentals. Buddha Dhamma can be very deep, but once one starts on the path, Dhamma itself will guide one to deeper aspects. It is important to keep at it, just to make certain that the Sotapanna phala moment is realized. Once that is done, an immense amount of future suffering would be removed.
• I am planning a post exclusively on attaining the Sotapanna stage (based on the material discussed so far in the new “Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta – New Series” section) in a couple of weeks. It is necessary to complete the background material first. Of course, some people can attain the Sotapanna stage without going that deep, but even for them it would be a good refresher.
• By the way, the post that DhammaSponge referred to is “Craving for Pornography – How to Reduce the Tendency.”

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Jittananto, DhammaSponge

[Lal]

Quick comments:

End of p. 1, it states: “This creates a philosophical problem for a literal interpretation of mundane right view, which often involves ensuring a favorable rebirth. As the user rightly points out, this seems to conflict with the central doctrine of anatta (no-self). The idea of a fixed, enduring self that persists from life to life to enjoy the fruits of merit is a metaphysical concept the Buddha explicitly avoided.”

• The concept of rebirth (unlike the concept of reincarnation in Hinduism) does not conflict with the core idea of a ‘no-everlasting self.’
• See “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream.”

On p. 3: “The evidence from textual criticism and scholars like Gombrich strongly supports the thesis that the formal classification of Right View into mundane and supramundane tiers is a later scholastic development..”

• No. The eight factors of the mundane eightfold path and the Noble Eightfold Path are discussed in detail in the “Mahācattārīsaka Sutta (MN 117)“, starting with the mundane and Noble Sammā Diṭṭhi, which I linked to.
• One learns and comprehends that kamma (actions, speech, and thoughts with a defiled mind) leads to corresponding consequences (kamma vipaka) while on the mundane path. One cannot comprehend the Noble (supramundane) Samma Ditthi without that.
• I see that you referenced the above sutta on p. 4. That is good.

Regarding the discussion on ‘Samma‘: 

• ‘Sammā‘ can be taken to mean “right’ or ‘correct’ in the mundane path.
• In the lokuttara sense, “sammā” is derived from “saṅ” + “mā,” meaning “to become free of saṅ.” Saṅ represents defilements or rāga, dōsa, mōha. Here, “mā” means “becomes free of.” For example:
  • “Mā hoti jāti, jāti” means “may I be free of repeated birth.”
  • “mā mé bāla samāgamō” means “may I be free of association with those who are ignorant of Dhammā.”
• See “What is “San”? Meaning of Sansara (or Samsara).”

Let me know if you need further input on any other specific parts of the document.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

One aspect that many people do not realize is the following. Most get discouraged by simply looking at the idea of how the mind can create solid matter, for example, “our solid bodies.” The mind only creates the “seeds” for material objects. 

• For example, the mind does not create our physical body directly. It only creates enough energy for the mental body (gandhabba), and that energy is unimaginably tiny compared to our physical body. (As Einstein confirmed, matter and energy are equivalent. If you convert the mass of a human body to energy, that would be an enormous number in energy units.)
• Just as a tiny seed can grow into a massive tree by absorbing water and nutrients from the soil, an unimaginably small gandhabba (that gets into the womb of a mother) gives rise to the heavy human body by taking in food, first from the mother and then, once outside the womb, by consuming solid food. See #5 of “Kamma Viññāṇa and Nāmarūpa Paricceda Ñāṇa.”
• P.S. Also see #6 of “How Do We See? – Role of the Gandhabba“
• However, to understand advanced posts like those, one must have a good background about kammic energy, viññāṇa, gandhabba, etc.
• May be reading such a post can get someone motivated to get started!
• I am a physicist with a Ph.D., and I can say that what modern science knows is only a tiny fraction of what the Buddha taught. After over ten years, I am still learning the deeper aspects of the Buddha’s teachings! Modern science knows NOTHING about the mind.

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jennydo, Jittananto

[Lal]

No. It is not from a sutta, but rather one way to cultivate mettā for all beings trapped in the rebirth process and not released from the apāyās.

• There can be many ways to cultivate mettā, once you understand what it is about.

[Lal]

Question: How is the mind the originator of external rupa? 

1. This is a complex subject and needs some background in basic teachings of the Buddha about kamma. 

• Kamma means not just any action, but ‘an action done with a defiled mind.’ A defiled mind is one that harbors raga (greed), dosa (anger), or moha (ignorance of the Buddha’s teachings).
• A kamma can be done with physical action (kaya kamma), speech (vaci kamma), or thoughts (mano kamma). In fact, one does kaya and vaci kamma also based on mano kamma. Also see, “Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)“
• Such a kamma generates kammic energy. Some of that energy is spent on speech and actions. But a significant part of that energy is stored in “vinnana dhatu.” The collective kammic energy of all living beings leads to the arising of the external world. One’s own kammic energy can bring future rebirths for oneself. 
• That is an extremely summarized version of a complex subject.

2. I suggest reading posts in the following sections to build up on those ideas: “Living Dhamma” and “Moral Living and Fundamentals” 

• It is a good idea to scan the post lists and read topics that seem interesting first.
• It will take some time to grasp these concepts, especially if one has not been exposed to Buddha’s teachings.

[Lal]

External rupa is material, of course. For example, a gold ring is made of atoms and molecules.

• When person X sees that ring, a mental image of it is grasped by the mind. That is the ‘internal rupa.’ 

There are five mental enoties associated with that ‘internal rupa‘:

• Rupa or Rupakkhandha: It registers the size, colors, shape, etc. associated with the gold ring. Furthermore, the mind compares seeing such objects in the past and matches those past experiences to recognize the object as a gold ring. That is why it is called ‘rupakkhandha‘ or an ‘aggregate or collection of rupa.’ That is a very simple explanation of a deeper subject, but a starting point.
• Vedana or Vedanakkhadha: The mind may ‘feel’ a sensation of pleasure seeing the gold ring. Suppose you saw it at the dentist’s office while waiting for your appointment. Someone may have accidentally dropped it.
• Saññā or Saññākkhandha: Recognition of the object as a gold ring. It also incorporates any value that is placed on it. The gold ring could be expensive.
• Saṅkhāra or Saṅkhārakkhndha: Thoughts that arise related to the gold ring. You may consider keeping it for yourself, instead of handing it over to the receptionist, in case the owner comes looking for it. If so, then greed would have arisen in you. 
• Viññāṇa or Viññāṇakkhandha: Overall mental impression of the ring and any future plans regarding it. If you decide to keep it, you may think about giving it to your wife or girlfriend as a gift. Or you may decide to sell it.

That is a very basic explanation. The mind is extremely fast. All those things happen within a split second.

• Detailed explanations in “The Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha).”

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Jittananto

[Lal]

Yes. Most English translations on the internet are incorrect because they translate word-for-word without understanding the meanings.

• See “Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa.”

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Jittananto

[Lal]

1. Are you aware that two ancient yogis, Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta, attained the fourth jhana?

• Did they have Samma Samadhi, which is the culmination of the Noble Eightfold Path?
• If so, they would have been at least Anagamis, very close to the Arahant stage.
• They had attained the fourth jhana by suppressing kama raga. They are still puthujjana, not released from the apayas.

2. One needs to be in the Ariya fourth jhana (with kama raga samyojana eliminated) to be in the peak of Samma Samadhi.

• The suttas you quoted refer to the Ariya fourth jhana. 
• The suttas do not explain that; it is to be understood.

3. There are levels of Samma Samadhi attained by Sotapannas, Sakadagamis, Anagamis, and Arahants. 

• Those never go away. Because of the anantarika (unbreakable) Samma Samadhi attained by a Sotapanna, for example, exempts them from rebirths in the apayas.
• The culmination or the peak of the Samma Samadhi can be equated to the Samadhi of an Anagami in the fourth Ariya jhana, who is very close to Arahanthood. The suttas you quoted refer to such Anagamis who are very close to the peak of Samma Samadhi. However, there can even be Arahants who have not cultivated the fourth jhana; those are Pannavimutti Arahants.
• The general definition of the peak of Samma Samadhi refers to fulfilling all other seven path factors, Samma Ditthi through Samma Sati.

4. Those are points I discussed in “Sammā Samādhi – How to Define It?“

• Please read the post carefully. If there are questions about the validity of any parts in the post, please quote from the post and explain why they are wrong.
• That is the only way to resolve any questions or issues.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

The above explains why it is only the Ariya fourth jhana that can be defined as the peak of Samma Samadhi.

• If an Anagami can get there, they are almost at Arahanthood.
• See the current post “Sammā Samādhi – How to Define It?“

________

P.S. We all had cultivated rupa jhana and arupa samapatti countless times in our deep past. Most of us are still trapped in this rebirth process among the 31 realms.

• That is just moving from realm to realm among the 31 realms in the world. Any anariya  rupa jhana and arupa samapatti belong to the world, not a part of Nibbana.
• If one can attain the Sotapanna stage, that surpasses any jhana or samapatti, because it is when one breaks free from the trap. Of course, one can use an anariya jhana to attain the Sotapanna stage by seeing the anicca nature of that jhana and moving into the Satipatthana Bhumi.

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Jittananto, Zapper

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