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Taking any “lokiya nimitta” (an object belonging to the world) as a meditation object (nimitta) is an anariya meditation (as Christian emphasized).
- Once Ven. Ananda asked the Buddha about that, and the Buddha explained it in detail. See “Saññā Sutta (AN 11.7).”
- Ven. Ananda asked: “Siyā nu kho, bhante, bhikkhuno tathārūpo samādhipaṭilābho yathā neva pathaviyaṁ pathavisaññī assa, na āpasmiṁ āposaññī assa, na tejasmiṁ tejosaññī assa, na vāyasmiṁ vāyosaññī assa, na ākāsānañcāyatane ākāsānañcāyatanasaññī assa, na viññāṇañcāyatane viññāṇañcāyatanasaññī assa, na ākiñcaññāyatane ākiñcaññāyatanasaññī assa, na nevasaññānāsaññāyatane nevasaññānāsaññāyatanasaññī assa, na idhaloke idhalokasaññī assa, na paraloke paralokasaññī assa, yampidaṁ diṭṭhaṁ sutaṁ mutaṁ viññātaṁ pattaṁ pariyesitaṁ anuvicaritaṁ manasā, tatrāpi na saññī assa; saññī ca pana assā”ti?
- The translation there can be improved as., “Could it be, bhante, that a bhikkhu might gain a samādhi like this? They would not focus their minds on pathavi (as using a clay ball in kasina meditation) by “taking in” the “pathavi saññā” OR āpo (as using a water bowl in kasina meditation) by “taking in” the “āpo saññā” OR tejo (as using a fire in kasina meditation) by “taking in” the “tejo saññā” OR vāyo (as using air in breath meditation) by “taking in” the “vāyo saññā” ..
- For example, “breath meditation” takes the saññā of air as the nimitta: “vāyosaññī assa.”
- The rest of the verse similarly is on arupa samapatti. For example, to cultivate ākāsānañcāyatana arupa samapatti, an Ariya will not focus their mind on “infinite space.”
- P.S. At the end of the verse, Ven. Ananda asked whether a samādhi can be attained without taking any nimitta associated with this world (this realm or any other realm). The answer is yes.
- @marker 5.1, the Buddha explains that an Ariya (Noble Person) takes the “cooling down/ultimate calmness of Nibbana” as the nimitta: “‘etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ, yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.”
P.P.S. This is also why saññā is a critical concept in Buddha Dhamma. All saññās associated with this world are illusions or mirages, as we have discussed: “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).”
Regarding the birth of the first few elephants or dinosaurs on Earth in a new eon, it happens as opapatika births. Humans who have degraded their gati are gradually reborn in the animal and other realms, according to the gati they develop. That happens after a very long time (probably around a billion years) when the conditions on Earth have changed so that vegetation has emerged.
- Even now, opapatika births can happen even in the human realm, but they are extremely rare. There is an account in the Tipitaka about at least one such birth.
- See “Four Types of Births in Buddhism.”
Yes, it is correct. An Arahant does not generate pancupādānakkhandha.
- An Arahant‘s mind does not “advance” or “defile/contaminate” to the ajjhatta vinnana stage with ajjhatta rupa, ajjhatta vedana, ajjhatta sanna, ajjhatta sankhara, and ajjhatta vinnana.
- P.S. “Ajjha” means “mine,” and “atta” means “beneficial” in this context. Thus, Arahant‘s mind would not consider any sensory input to be of “benefit” and is worth taking to be “me” or “mine.”
- Bahiddha vinnana has a “distorted sanna” but is not defiled; i.e., it does not have raga, dosa, or moha associated with it.
- Only those with pancupādānakkhandha transition from the bahiddha stage to the ajjhatta stage.
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Topics like this can waste our time. I stopped responding in another related thread due to this reason.
- However, let me respond to some of TGS’s quotes because they could help us understand a bit of Buddha Dhamma or dispel some obviously wrong misconceptions.
TGS quoted: “I do not understand how the first dinosaur or the first elephant or the first human appeared on earth. Can someone please explain?”
- The appearance of humans with “Bahama-like subtle bodies” is explained in the “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).” Those humans are then gradually reborn in the other realms; that is how the first elephant appears, for example.
- Even when our cakkavala (Solar system) is destroyed, only the “dense matter” is destroyed. Higher Brahma realms (above the Abhassara Brahma realm) remain intact.
TGS quoted: “If humans saw Dinosaurs and put them in temples that would mean those temples have been there for more than 50 millions years and withstood a comet strike which is not possible.”
- A comet strike does not physically damage everything on Earth. That is impossible. Read about it by doing a Google search.
- For example, the comment strike that killed all dinosaurs only created a crater a few kilometers in diameter. It did not destroy other physical structures. However, the dust plume blanketed the Earth and blocked Sunlight for a long time. That led to the killing of all dinosaurs and many species of large animals, and it probably killed most humans, too.
- However, all those who died survived in their gandhabba state. As conditions on Earth improve, the population of those species that were not completely wiped out can rebuild. That is how the populations of humans (and many smaller animals) grew over time. Even those dinosaur gandhabbas would live in that state until the end of their bhava energy. There could be dinosaur gandhabbas living to this day. They cannot be reborn with dinosaurs with physical bodies because there are no dinosaur parents to give birth to them!
Also, the videos about the “flat Earth hypothesis” are total garbage. I have seen them. They try to explain the pictures that show the Earth is round by saying that light curves due to Earth’s gravitational pull! However, only much more massive objects, like the Sun or other stars, can “bend the path of light,” and even that is a slight deviation.
I must say that Waisaka has made some valid remarks.
Yes. It is a good topic for “insight meditation.”
1. A maha kappa consists of four “asaṅkhyeyya kappas” or ‘incalculable periods.” That will help your point, “Of course 1 kappa is utterly long and suffering in the apaya for billions of years would be insane,” to sink into the mind.
- See “Kappa Sutta (AN 4.156).”
2. We can visualize it as follows: Suppose the following offer is made: You can have the most luxurious vacation possible for nine months, but you will be subjected to unimaginable suffering for almost three months.
- That is the equivalent of a sentient-being spending three “asaṅkhyeyya kappas” without suffering and almost one “asaṅkhyeyya kappa” in the apayas. That is because the time spent in all “good realms” (averaged over many maha kappas) is insignificant compared to the time spent in the apayas. See #8 of “Cuti and Marana – Related to Bhava and Jāti.”
- The other problem is that the cycle keeps repeating. It does not end until a magga phala is attained.
3. If one spends some time contemplating this, one would be incentivized to make the best effort to attain a magga phala!
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1. There is nothing wrong with getting into jhana. But one must be careful not to think one is closer to Nibbana (magga phala) because one can get into jhanas. Most Brahmas are puthujjana.
- The Buddha labeled the “kama loka” as “hīna dhātu” (hīna means “inferior”), “rupa loka” as “majjhima dhātu” (majjhima means “middle”), and “arupa loka” as “paṇīta dhātu” (paṇīta means “superior”).
- Thus, humans live in “kama loka,” which gives rise to “inferior perceptions, inferior views, inferior thoughts, inferior intentions, inferior aims, inferior wishes, an inferior person, and inferior speech.” See “Giñjakāvasatha Sutta (SN 14.13).”
- @ marker 4.1: Those Brahmas in rupa loka experience “middling (middle) perceptions, middling views, middling thoughts, middling intentions, middling aims, middling wishes, a middling person, and middling speech.”
- @ marker 5.1: Arupavacara Brahmas in arupa loka experience “superior perceptions, superior views, superior thoughts, superior intentions, superior aims, superior wishes, a superior person, and superior speech.”
2. Now, jhanic experiences (especially in jhana samapatti) of humans are similar to the experiences of rupa loka Brahmas.
- arupa samapatti experiences of humans are similar to the experiences of arupa loka Brahmas.
3. One can attain magga phala from kama loka, rupa loka, or arupa loka.
- However, since seeing and hearing are not possible in arupa loka, only those arupa Barhamas with at least the Sotapanna stage of Nibbana can attain higher magga phala.
4. From any of the “three lokas,” one must get to the upacara samadhi (for magga phala) to be able to cultivate Satipatthana and attain higher magga phala.
5. The advantage of getting into jhanas is that while in a jhana, it would be easier to get to upacara samadhi because most akusala thoughts do not arise while in the jhana.
- The disadvantage is that many people get attached to the “jhanic experience” and get stuck there. Some even think they have attained magga phala because of the “better mindset/experience,” which, unlike sensual (kama) experiences, can last long, even for hours.
- But if one can cultivate an Ariya jhana, that would be a special case. Only an Anagami can get into even the first Ariya jhana, because one would have eliminated kama raga (instead of just suppressing as in anariya jhana.)
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The old post has been rewritten with a new title: “Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Nine Stages of Mind Contamination“
- Dosakkhayo quoted from that new post.
- Yes. I will try to do that ASAP.
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I wrote: “It is a very superficial explanation.”
- This video does not change that.
P.S. Please post videos only if they explain Paticca Samuppada, including the concept of “bhava.”
P.P.S. I just saw a video by Bhante entitled “Breathing Meditation – New Perspective: Sattipathana Sutta – Part1.” Of course, I did not watch it.
- I don’t think I need to see more videos or anything else on this topic.
- Anyone who called Satipatthana “Breathing Meditation” would not know much about Buddha’s teachings.
I forgot to explain how I concluded Bhante did not understand Paticca Samuppada (Dependent Origination.)
- He discussed it starting at 35 minutes in the video Lang posted: “What is a Jhana? Commentaries vs Suttas – Meaning?“
- It is a very superficial explanation. In particular, at 37 minutes, he describes “bhava.” I don’t think he understands it.
- He says bhikkhu Bodhi translates “bhava” as “experience,” and bhikkhu Silananda translates it as “habitual tendencies.” None of them seem to understand it, even though bhikkhu Silananda’s translation is better.
- “Bhava” is the “kammic energy” or “kammic potential” that can bring rebirths or “various mental states during a life.” That energy is generated via “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra; saṅkhāra paccayā viññāna; viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa” steps once getting to the “taṇhā paccayā upādāna” step he just went through. See “Taṇhā Paccayā Upādāna – Critical Step in Paṭicca Samuppāda” and “Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava.”
- If there is another video where he explains Paticca Samuppada (and “bhava“) better, I would like to watch it.
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Trying to resolve these “philosophical issues” is a waste of time.
- Do you not remember past suffering? Do you not see that there will be future suffering that one will inevitably perceive as “mine”?
- The Buddha taught the following: Understand that there is suffering, and also understand that it can be stopped.
Of course.
- “Kamaguna” arises in a puthujjana‘s mind because they think the “sweetness of sugar” is real and not mind-made.
- The tricky part is that no experiments within the world can deny that the “sweetness of sugar” is in sugar. Scientists will say a specific type of molecule causes the sweetness. Those molecules are made by kammic energy to provide that “sanna of sweetness” in humans!
- P.S. Even for an Ariya who has understood this process (janato), it will take time to overcome the attachment to that sanna (“passato“). That is what I explained above.
- This is also why the Buddha said his Dhamma would be difficult to comprehend. Even the “janitor” part may not be easy, but that is the “core” of the Buddha Dhamma. To become “sanditthiko” (i.e., how “san” arises), one needs to comprehend this process.
Take the time to read the comments and relevant posts.
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This is a complex issue. Some (a few) enjoy it, too. I think over-analyzing such cases may cause more questions without much benefit.
- Some questions will be answered as one makes progress.
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For anyone who has not understood how the “sweetness of sugar” gets “embedded in sugar,” “kamaguna” is in sugar.
- However, one who understands the process knows that the “sweetness of sugar” is “embedded in sugar” due to a mental process. Only those who have similar mindsets taste sugar to be sweet (a lion does not taste sugar to be sweet.)
- Thus, one who understands the process will not attach to the “sweetness of sugar” even though they still taste “sugar to be sweet.” That is mainly because they also understand that such attachments lead to more suffering.
- Just that understanding, by itself, (janato) does not remove the craving for sweet things or more desirable sensory experiences. That is why one needs to contemplate that incessantly. That is why Satipatthana must be cultivated by those who understand the process to get to the “passato” stage. See “Jānato Passato” and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”
- These “kama sanna” are deeply engraved in our minds through countless lives. It is not easy to lose that “distorted sanna.” In the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)“, the Buddha said it could take seven days to seven years if cultivated properly.
Thanks, Lang.
- I watched the video until Bhante started talking about Paticca Samuppada. I am afraid he does not understand it.
- That is all I needed to know.
So, this is not any better than Goenka Vipassana!
- I get depressed when I see how little of Buddha Dhamma is being taught. It is a sad situation.
- Whether people can get to anariya jhana is not a factor at all. We all had attained the highest jhanas uncountable times in our past.
