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Yes.
- The reason is subtle, but the main point is the following: We all have a “suffering-free” (pabhassara) state of mind deep inside us. Until we comprehend that fact and learn how to “uncover” that “suffering-free” (pabhassara) state of mind, ALL our actions move our minds away from it.
- That was discussed in the following thread: “Validity of current interpretation of Satipatthana Sutta.”
- You (or anyone who has not understood that) should read that thread, at least from my comment on July 30, 2024 at 9:26 am.
That issue is at the heart of the Buddha’s teachings.
I think you are asking the following: We attach to sukha vedana with greed (raga) and dukkha vedana with anger or resentment (patigha.) We also like to “enjoy” a neutral vedana because it gives us “peace of mind.”
- So, it is a subtle point, but a puthujjana attaches to a neutral vedana with ignorance (avijja.) That is because a puthujjana does not understand the “true nature” of the evolvement of a citta to the vinnanakkhandha stage, which we discussed in the current post “Citta Evolving To Viññāna And Viññākkhanda In Nine Steps.”
Of course. What else?
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“What I meant was not on the teachings itself, but rather the historicity, whether such events did happen, and whether the tipitaka is faithful to historic events.”
- I understood what you meant. However, that is covered if one can see the truth in the current version of the Tipitaka.
- There is no other way to check the “validity of the teachings” in Tipitaka.
- Of course, I have written posts showing the consistency and inconsistencies of modern science with Buddha Dhamma. That is to point out that science is always “catching up” with Buddha Dhamma in the long term. I have also made predictions about which “scientific theories” will be proven incorrect, possibly within our lifetimes: “Dhamma and Science” and “Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma.”
You may be able to get some ideas by reading the following post:
“5. Ariya Metta Bhāvana (Loving Kindness Meditation).”
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At the beginning of this thread Pathfinder wrote the following:
“I think it is important to analyse on the validity of the tipitaka itself to build faith in the dhamma.We have been referencing the tipitaka, and whenever we do so we have the following assumptions:
- Whatever is stated in the tipitaka is factually right, though not for word, the events did happen, and they are words of the Buddha himself, and they are not made up by anyone else.
- The words of the Buddha are true, the Buddha did not make them up.”
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1. Using that approach, one will NEVER make any progress toward verifying the validity of the Tipitaka (i.e., Buddha’s teachings).
- The reason is simple: Buddha’s teachings cannot be verified within any theories or arguments based on human knowledge.
- Understanding Buddha Dhamma requires a “paradigm change.”
2. The Buddha stated the above using the verse, “adhigato kho myāyaṁ dhammo gambhīro duddaso duranubodho santo paṇīto atakkāvacaro nipuṇo paṇḍitavedanīyo.”
- Soon after attaining the Buddhahood, the Buddha uttered that verse: “Brahmāyācana Sutta (SN 6.1).”
- The translation is that link: “This principle I have discovered is deep, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute.”
- There, “adhigato kho myāyaṁ dhammo” means “This Dhamma that I uncovered.” “gambhīro” means “profound.” The rest of the translations are good, but “atakkāvacaro” does not mean “beyond the scope of logic.”
- “Atakkāvacaro” means “beyond the scope of the logic of the humans or the world in general.”
3. That is why Pathfinder’s proposed scheme will not work.
- The validity of Buddha Dhamma cannot be tested within the theories or logic known to humans. It requires a paradigm change in thinking.
- All philosophies and religions are based on the assumption that happiness can be achieved somewhere within this world, whether in this life or a “heavenly realm.”
- Buddha taught that the above assumption is wrong. One can eliminate sakkaya ditthi only by seeing that it is indeed true.
4. That verse “adhigato kho myāyaṁ dhammo gambhīro duddaso duranubodho santo paṇīto atakkāvacaro nipuṇo paṇḍitavedanīyo” appears in many suttas, including DN 1, DN 14, MN 26, MN 72, MN 95.
- In the “Brahmāyācana Sutta (SN 6.1)” the Buddha explained why it is difficult for average humans (puthujjana) to see the validity of his teachings.
- starting at marker 1.5, he explains why. That verse is better translated as, “But people like clinging to sensory pleasures, they love it and enjoy it.”
- @ marker 1.6: “It’s hard for them to see the truth, i.e., idappaccayatā paṭicca samuppāda.
- @ marker 4.1; “And as the Buddha reflected like this, his mind inclined not to teach the Dhamma to the world.” Of course, that was not going to happen. He strived for the Buddhahood for the sake of himself and others. Even though the sutta states he accepted Brahmā Sahampati’s invitation to teach Dhamma, that was a formality. He had an obligation to help others, which he started doing soon afterward: “Animisa Lōcana Bōdhi Poojā – A Prelude to Acts of Gratitude.”
5. This is why engaging in debates with those with wrong views is futile.
- The only way to eliminate wrong views is to examine Buddha’s teachings with an open mind.
- Each individual must decide whether or not to take that approach.
- Engaging in debates on this issue is a waste of time.
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“The Hadean Eon, named after the Greek god and ruler of the underworld Hades, is the oldest son and dates from 4.5–4.0 billion years ago. This time represents Earth’s earliest history, during which the planet was characterized by a partially molten surface, volcanism, and asteroid impacts.”
- These are mere conjectures (or “theories”) by the scientists.
- There is no way to prove or disprove such conjectures.
- It is similar to the idea of a “Creator God.” No one can prove or disprove that conjecture either.
No. An anariya yogi‘s (or any puthujjana‘s) mind ALWAYS gets to the ajjhatta stage. The mind can be stopped at the bahiddha stage, only by a Sotapanna practicing Satipatthana. P.S. When a Sotapanna successfully does that, he becomes an Anagami. P.P.S. However, understanding this process (even without stopping at the bahiddha stage) can help a puthujjana reach the Sotapanna stage because now one becomes a “sandiṭṭhiko.”
- Simply focusing the mind on a neutral object forces the mind NOT to focus on immoral thoughts (i.e., avoid such arammana) at the beginning of a “meditation session.” This avoids vitakka/vicara with immoral thoughts.
- Then, he must also focus on “mundane moral thoughts” (savitakka/savicara) to force the mind (vinnana) in the upward direction (in the “nava kamma” stage) in the charts I discussed on August 13, 2024, at 8:50 pm, above. Usually, they practice “mundane meditations” like “mundane metta” (may all beings be happy and free of suffering, etc.)
- That forces the mind to latch onto the higher rupa loka mindset at some point. It could take years of effort. Furthermore, they must avoid “mind-pleasing sensory inputs” that trigger kama raga.
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Arahants do not have panca upadana khanda (i.e., do not generate craving for anything in this world) because they have understood anicca nature.
- You need to read and think more about the concept of anicca. See “Anicca – True Meaning“
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“1). Is it right to think those humans lived in the 4.5 billion span of this earth, or would it be a previous formation?”
- The Buddha taught that “humans with subtle bodies like those of Brahmas” lived on this Earth from the beginning of this Earth. See “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)“
I think that answers the second question, too.
- Scientists have very different theories, of course. They believe the Earth was devoid of any life for at least a billion years. They don’t know how the Earth acquired so much water or how the first life form arose on Earth.
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That is hard to say. All we know is that a Sotapanna is incapable of doing an “apayagami deed,” i.e., one can lead to rebirth in an apaya.
- Since they still have kama raga, they may be tempted to engage in some inappropriate behavior.
- If one has not fully grasped the concept of “distorted sanna,” temptations triggered by kama raga can be strong.
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Yes! Even though we can talk about “impermanence/decay” of external things (which is also true), the main point is the anicca nature of the panca upadana khanda.
- Those rupas that the mind makes (“cakkhu vinneyya rupa“) are of the anicca nature. Those are the types of rupa that we hope to attain/acquire. Even if such a material rupa is acquired, we cannot keep it forever, or even until death, most of the time. for example, we like to eat tasty food, and most of the time, we can accomplish that. (But in reality, all that effort was in vain because the “tastiness” is an illusion!) Furthermore, if we want more of that food, we have to do it all over, too. There are many implications to contemplate.
- Thus, our efforts (sankhara) are of the anicca nature (pointless, fruitless); our expectations for such rupa (vinnana) are of the anicca nature.
P.S. The mind-made “cakkhu vinneyya rupa” is made with the “distorted sanna.” Of course, Arahants do not get to that step, even though they also get the “distorted sanna” (of tasty food, for example.)
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1. The complete verse from “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)” is: “‘Atthi kāyo’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati.”
- This could take a book to explain if started from the beginning.
- But the essence is “Once a mind gets to the “paccupaṭṭhita sati” (bahiddha vinnana), it is free of any manifested defilements (samyojana/anusaya may still be there). This is where one has truly cultivated the “sati sambojjhanga” in cultivating “Satta Bojjhanga.” It is not easy to get a mind to this stage. But once there, this is the best place to contemplate the anicca nature, etc., and get to higher magga phala. This is where one’s mind can stop grasping at anything in the world.”
- This exact verse comes after each section in Kāyānupassanā (@ markers 3.5, ,,10.8; I think the Sutta Central version may not have the verse in other sections between 3.5 and 10.8).
2. A similar verse appears in the Vedanānupassanā section @ 11.13: “‘Atthi vedanā’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati.”
- Thus, one can get to the same “paccupaṭṭhita sati” (bahiddha vinnana) by contemplating the origin of vedana (which means the origin of samphassa-ja-vedana.)
3. A similar verse appears in the Cittānupassanā section @ 12.20: ‘‘Atthi cittan’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati.”
- Thus, one can get to the same “paccupaṭṭhita sati” (bahiddha vinnana) by contemplating the origin of citta (which means the origin of defiled citta or thoughts.)
4. A similar verse appears in the Dhammānupassanā section @ 13.11: ‘‘‘Atthi dhammā’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya, anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati..”
- Thus, one can get to the same “paccupaṭṭhita sati” (bahiddha vinnana) by contemplating the origin of dhammā (which means the associated Dhamma concepts. That is the same as contemplating how kammic energies (dhammās) arise. That means Paticca Samuppada, Noble Truths, Tilakkhana, etc. That also means understanding the origin of “san” at the bahiddha/ajjhatta transition due to the “defiled sanna,” i.e., one must become “sandiṭṭhiko,” as I explained earlier on this thread.
- That also means one needs to understand how a mind “expands” in two stages of “purana kamma” and “nava kamma” as I explained in the charts showing two stages of “expansion” of vinnana.
5. One can get to the “paccupaṭṭhita sati” via any of the four types of anupassanā (or subsections within each.)
- However, one usually needs to contemplate most of them at various times.
- Each person may have their favorite section(s). Some focus on how samphassa-ja-vedana arise and another may focus on how defiled cittas arise, for example.
- But they are all the same at the end. Vedana, sanna, arise simultaneously within each citta, i.e., within each vinnana. The word “kāya” here means “pancupadankkhandha kāya” (rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana.)
6. I have also stated that understanding all that may not be necessary to become a Sotapanna (because one may have come close in previous lives and may have grasped it even without knowing.) However, generally, one must become “sandiṭṭhiko” to attain magga phala.
- However, it is absolutely necessary to understand all that to attain higher magga phala, because that is the basis of Satipatthana.
- Now, some, like Venerables Bahiya or Santati, may have done most of that work in previous lives and were able to get there quickly.
7. I will explain these concepts in more detail in upcoming posts, even though I have already covered most of them.
- The issue is that no one is fully familiar with the concept of “distorted sanna” (especially the fact that it is built into anyone born into this world via Paticca Samuppada.)
- That is why it is so hard to suppress kama raga, let alone eliminate it. But once one understands “distorted sanna,” one can see that it is all “mind-made” illusions! We all have been wasting our time watching a grand magic show. But the problem is that it leads to so much future suffering.
7. Let me point out another critical point. It is not necessary to try to “go back from right to left” in those “expansion charts” intentionally. Those charts are there to explain how a mind becomes defiled sequentially at a rapid rate.
- But one must comprehend the mechanism.
- One must live a moral life and abstain from akusala kamma to avoid going through too many of the “higher expansion stage” in the “nava kamma” region of the chart. This is the practice of “Ariyakanata sila.”
- That is because when one sits down to meditate formally, one’s mind will still “wander around.” The more one practices Ariyakanata sila, the easier it becomes to keep the mind focused. Again, formal meditation means contemplating the essence of what is discussed above. For example, how we chase mirages all day, trying to acquire more sensory pleasures (or to make money for that purpose.) Such efforts only take us away from the suffering-free mind. A puthujjana‘s mind ALWAYS moves from left to right on those charts, i.e., away from the “paccupaṭṭhita sati” and thereby away from the “suffering-free” pabhassara mind.
8. The Buddha clearly stated that his teachings have never been known to the world. That statement must be taken seriously. Most people try to interpret his teachings in mundane ways. A Buddha will never teach anything that average humans can come up with. No average human (no matter how “intelligent” as measured by IQ, etc.) can figure out the fact that what is perceived as “pleasure” is really the cause of future suffering!
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I have no problem if you disagree.
- I present my interpretations. Each person needs to decide on their own.
- I can respond if anyone can present evidence from the Tipitaka that my interpretations are incorrect. You don’t have to do that. But I can respond only if you or anyone else can present such evidence.
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