The Big Bang May Have Never Happened?

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    • #39539

      Scientists are examining the new and better pictures of the universe taken with the James Webb Space Telescope launched on 25 December 2021.

      There COULD BE evidence from these pictures that the Big Bang Theory may not be the correct explanation for our universe. These new pictures MAY BE revealing that there are stars older than the age of the universe predicted by the Big Bang Theory.

      There are pending publications (that have NOT been peer-reviewed yet) saying that these pictures invalidate the Big Bang Theory. But we need to wait and see until those papers are reviewed. If proven, this will have significant repercussions for science in general and physics in particular.

      I did a Google search and came up with more information:
      James Webb telescope Big Bang

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    • #39551

      Recently I came across an article that mentioned similar information.

      In this article, it mentions similar things, in addition to some possible challenges scientists that are critical of the Big Bang theory face from their peers and the “establishment”.

    • #39570

      The video I posted earlier, “Webb Telescope detects Object older than The Big Bang, Current theories fail to explain this” has been taken off. Here is another entitled, “James Webb Telescope Just Discovered a Huge Structure That Is Older than the Universe!”:

      There could be evidence that (i) stars older than the predicted age of the universe exist and (ii) expansion of the universe may not be true.
      – However, scientists will take time to make certain of their conclusions before discarding the current “Big Bang Theory.” Many scientists have spent their whole lives working on the Big Bang Theory.

      • #46887

        Dear Lal and others,

        I think what Ajahn Brahmavamso mentioned about scientists being in their comfort zones and unable or unwiling to move out of those zones maybe a factor for the continuing “popularity” of the Big Bang theory. Plus they have an unlikely ally in the Catholic Church, maybe due to the “ex-nihilo” nature of the “Big Bang” Universe.

        The Buddha is supposed to have said that only really intelligent people can grasp the Dhamma. I think others (even some eminent scientists) are not willing to look outside the box, having based their entire lives and reputations on the Big Bang and other established theories. This is just an aspect of the “puthujjana” mindset to which all of us un-enlightened beings are usually dragged into.


        With Mettha,


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    • #46889

      1. It is human nature to defend one’s belief to the end.

      • However, scientists are trained to follow the experimental evidence.
      • Once there is enough undeniable evidence, they will start looking for a better explanation. 
      • We may have to wait for the next generation telescope to “see even further into the universe” and see stars much older than 14 billion years.


      2. The other “domino to fall” will be the wrong belief that humans “evolved from the monkeys.” 

      • Things in this world NEVER go from “worse to better” naturally, i.e., without an effort. That is the “anicca nature.” 
      • If we want to make life better, we have to invent new technologies by spending time and effort. That is part of the “sankhara dukkha“!
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    • #46892
      Yash RS

      So how do scientists observe that galaxies are moving away ( Hubble Law)?

    • #46894

      It is explained in the following video:


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    • #46896

      So how do scientists observe that galaxies are moving away ( Hubble Law)?

      Dear Yash RS,

      It is I think necessary to mention here that the Buddha said about Vivattha Kappa and Sanvattha Kappa – the periods when this observable part of our Universe (as well as the other parts of the “Multiverse” if you will) Expand and Contract.

      So in the Vast Scheme of things, the Expansion that the Astronomers are observing could be a Temporary phenomenon (Billions of years but temporary). Both the Observable Universe and the Universal lifespan predictions given are but as grains of sand when compared to Infinity and Eternity.

      With Mettha,


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    • #46902

      Dear Yash RS great question #46892

      Such questions often come me to mind, even though they shouldn’t. The Buddha said that if you are concerned with the universe, you cannot live the Holy Life.

      It’s funny. That they called the formula by Edwin Hubble constant because it is not so constant after all. Because instead of the 70km/(s*Mpc). You can use 60 as well because it always depends on which direction you look and what the mass distribution of two densely lying galaxies is. This is because they can show different values. So if the teacher asks whether you can also use the value 60 km/(s*Mpc). You can safely say yes, you can. It should also be noted. This is what the masses of physicists have postulated. Edwin Hubble said; “It looks more like,… “.
      The galaxies always stay in the same place. It’s just space-time that’s expanding. And the redshift? It is correct to the extent that the Big Bang is. ;-) There is nothing to shake about the mathematical formula, it is the work of a genius.
      Halton Arp, a former employee of E.H., had a whole collection of anomalies that contradict the redshift. See Wiki Halton Arp.

      As a Buddhist, I would answer this question like this. The question is not worthy of a noble man! And the question should be whether? How then does one access external matter? And the answer should be. By forming Gati, about this matter. And how do you form Gati? By using (Abhi) Sankhara over this outer Rupa, this thinking can further be rolled on… , leading to IPS and PS…. It’s a role . So how could a noble person care about Gati, about this far away Rupa? A noble person knows that “pañcupādānakkhandha is not mine.” The deeper meaning is with the inner and outer Rupa, she is with Nama and Rupa, connected in a deeper sense. But to understand the deeper meaning, we have to wait for further comments from Lal. So, the further away these galaxies are. The earlier beings began to think about these galaxies. It’s a rolling of thoughts that “area/31 Loka”. These thoughts with Gati that lead to an ārammaṇa. Which contains the entity spirit, and with the entity spirit, the thought arises. cittas. But since we don’t have a Gati for this matter, we can’t use it. And with the education and further development of our Gati. Let’s move further away from the Rupa/galaxies. So the ārammaṇa moves away from us. So we only have one Sanna for galaxy.
      Now, I have to go further.

      On the night the Buddha became enlightened, he gained the ability to see his past lives. And he went back millions of years. Why did he go back? To see the beginning? Which beginning? That of emergence, entity spirit. But he couldn’t see that beginning, for this beginning lies hidden in infinity. But we know that even with infinity, according to mathematics and philosophy, that a beginning is there. And this beginning, would it have to be the emergence of the entity spirit? And on the entity spirit, the thought citta arises. And Citta is so fast. You have to keep this in mind over and over again. Not even our great master, the Buddha, who could explain so well, could find an analogy for this speed of a citta. Because everything you see, for example, if you sit in a room and look at the entire room, are Citta, via Kamma Vipka. Kamma Vipaka is energy. And E=mc² says mass can become energy and vice versa.

      If we have Gati, for this Kamma Vipaka, it becomes ārammaṇa, which we bring in with Citta and the five aggregates. And the average person only has that Sanna. “Galaxy” and you can’t get it because we don’t have the Gati. Without san Gati, you could do anything. For time is an illusion that is connected with the pañcakkhandha and the Nama Loka and the quality of the mind, which is, so to speak, like a chameleon that looks on both sides of the Namarupa and acts between and with the Nama and Rupa.

      This Gati, which we would need to see the most distant galaxies, would have to be at least 15 billion years old and would have been formed by gods down to humans, with countless rolling cittas across several of the 31 realms.

      Light quanta are carriers of the ārammaṇa, and very distant ārammaṇa or galaxies require very old Gati. We find them in Nama loka. The energy of the light quantum is only sufficient for r0, which is why we cannot look further back to see even older galaxies. At this point, I can’t say exactly what this has to do with. Be it gravity or another type of energy that removes the energy from the light quantum or wave.

      To make it short,
      “we have to change the Lorenz factor, which leads to time dilation.” That means our mind has to enter the Arupa Loka, probably with jhanas that precede a previous intention, and out again in distant galaxies, into our world i.e. into the Kama Loka, area five.
      I read somewhere that in the Brahma world one day is like a thousand here and vice versa. But I’m not sure where it was.
      It’s all very abstract and shouldn’t be taken too seriously. But that’s how time travel works, and I wouldn’t try it; there’s no return ticket. :-P

      So it’s better to take the route to Nibbana about the four steps Magga Phala. :)


      P.S. Dear Ravi777,
      in which sutta does the Buddha say this; “Buddha said about Vivattha Kappa and Sanvattha Kappa – the periods in which this observable part of our universe (as well as the other part)”?
      I ask for the reference.


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    • #46934

      1. The “saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa” phases of the 10,000- star systems (meaning 10,000 planetary systems like our Solar system) are briefly described in the “Kappa Sutta (AN 4.156).”

      • However, the terms “saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa” are wrongly translated in the English translation in the link as “contraction” and “expansion.”
      • That does not refer to a “speedy separation” of “star systems or cakkavala.” It refers to the “destruction” and “reformation” of those “star systems.”

      2. This is what I described in the post “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” per the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” I have linked to the place in the sutta where the two phases (“saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa“) are discussed.

      • Here “saṁvaṭṭa” refers to the phase where the Earth is destroyed together with the Sun and 10,000 other stars that are close by (but the higher-lying Brahma realms survive.)
      • In the “vivaṭṭa” phase, the Earth is reformed together with the Sun and close by 10,000 other stars. Then those Brahmas come back to the lower-lying realms gradually, over time. 
      • That cycle repeats endlessly, according to the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”

      3. What the scientists are measuring is not the movement of a cluster of 10,000 star systems but the “expansion of space itself.” However, I believe this is a misconception. They must have made a fundamental error in their assumption. 

      • According to this model, even galaxies –with millions of cakkavala in EACH galaxy — are moving away from each other at a rapid rate. That seems to make no sense to me.
      • This model is currently facing contradictions, especially with the recently launched Webb telescope, as pointed out in the videos above.  
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