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Hi Akvan,
When one becomes a Sotapnna, one does not automatically become a Sakadagami Anugami.
– One needs to keep striving. In most cases that is likely to happen.But there are instances when one attains a magga phala at the dying moment, say the Sotapanna phala.
– But in the next birth that person may be born to a family where Buddha Dhamma may not even be heard about. In that case, one would just be a Sotapanna for the duration of that life.
– Of course, that person will attain the Arahanthood within 7 bhava.Good question.
In a manodvara citta vithi, the vottapana citta is the same as the manodvara citta labelled MD, just before the set of javana citta:
OK. I see the misunderstanding.
I have revised #4, #5, and #9 of the post to make it more clear.
“A saddhānusārī (or dhammānusārī) is incapable of dying (separating) from that Noble birth until he realizes the Sotāpanna stage”. This does not mean a saddhānusārī will attain the Sotāpanna stage within that lifetime. Once “born as a Noble Person” one will not die from that birth, i.e., one WILL get to the Arahant stage without ever getting a birth in the apāyās.
– One gets a “Noble birth” when attaining the Sōtapanna Anugāmi stage. One is now one of the “attha purisa puggalā“.So, basically, a Sōtapanna Anugāmi may be born many times a human until getting to the Sōtapanna stage (may even have many human bhava, each with many human jāti).
– Once getting to the Sōtapanna stage, there would be only seven maximum number of “bhava” left, within which one WILL attain the Arahant stage.I just translated the sutta in #4. It was clear to me, but I realize that it may not be clear to someone just reading the post.
– The post was already a bit long. This is why it is hard to provide a good translation of a sutta without getting into details.
– A given sutta (especially deep ones) need to be discussed in detail.Yes, Siebe. All you say are correct. That sutta is a good reference too.
If sense experiences are not pleasurable, humans will not be tempted by them. When they do immoral things to get those sense pleasures, they commit kamma that lead to rebirth in the apayas.
It is hard for a normal human to avoid such kamma WHEN sense pleasures are HIGHLY attractive, i.e., when temptations become STRONG.
– This is why a permanent change in mindset of at least a Sotapanna Anugami is needed. Such a mindset will automatically reject such bad actions at the vottapana citta (in the Abhidhamma language). So, one will not have to consciously avoid such “apayagami actions”.
– The tendency to have temptations for certain sense attractions are embedded in one’s gati. Those gati need to be reduced by doing real Anapana/Satipatthana. Then it will become easier to grasp the Tilakkhana and get to the Sotapanna stage.“When it turns out to be that recommended practices or contemplations lead to unhappiness, what to do? Does one have to continue?”
Those bhikkhus (and the translator too) misunderstood the instructions given by the Buddha.
– In any case, if a given procedure does not help, there in no point in pursuign that particular approach. There are many different techniques to choose from.“Therefor, i belief, searching happiness in life cannot really be in conflict with buddha-dhamma. Happiness and joy are necessities to practise the buddha-dhamma and make any progress. Ofcourse i understand it is a kind of happiness the sutta’s talk about (piti and sukha). We are not talking about sense-pleasures. But an unhappy mind is a serieus obstacle, at least, this is my own experience.”
That is true.
But the whole point in pursuing Buddha Dhamma is to realize the bad consequences of GETTING ATTACHED TO sense pleasures.
– But that does mean one needs to avoid sense pleasures, and live like those ascetics who endured suffering in hopes of getting rid of sense pleasures.
– That “giving up” HAS TO come through understanding: That in the end such sense pleasures only lead to suffering. That is the hard part.This is why I keep saying that one must follow the Path step-by-step:
“Is It Necessary for a Buddhist to Eliminate Sensual Desires?“New post on this issue published:
“Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās“.Discussion can be continued at:
“Post on “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās“.Yes. See, “Āhāra (Food) in Udayavaya Ñāna“.
“What is the use of the utuja kaya?”
I am not sure whether the utuja kaya has a “use”. It just arises due to the cittja kaya. As I said, citta arise and fade away quickly. Part of the energy in those cittas are released as an “electromagnetic wave” to use terminology of modern science.
These days, there are machines that can monitor this “aura”. It is an energy field.
– When one dies, this field is turned off and the “dead body” becomes inert like a piece of wood. So, this “aura body” is a sign of life.Thanks, upekkha100!
Yes. It is relevant.The key seems to be at least getting a basic idea of what is meant by anicca, dukkha, anatta nature AND how a given existence (bhava) arises due to one’s own (abhi)sankhara (as described in Paticca Samuppada).
– Once that basic idea is grasped, one may not be able to do “apayagami actions” (even under highly-tempting situations) even if one has not yet gotten to the Sotapanna phala moment.Good questions.
“1) The 6 ajjhatta äyatana are not the 6 physical eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and mano indriya right? Ajjhatta äyatana are the 6 mental pasada rupa that is in the gandabba? Specifically cakku pasada rupa, sota pasada rupa, ghana pasada rupa, jivha pasada rupa, kaya pasada rupa, hadaya vatthu?”
Correct.
“2) Are all those 6 ajjhatta äyatana made up of mano rupa? Even the hadaya vatthu?”
No. Those are actually (barely) above the “mano rupa” or “vinnana” stage. They are at suddhashtaka stage (the smallest “rupa rupa” or “vanna rupa”).
– They are created by kammic energy at the cuti-patisandhi stage, when a new bhava is grasped.
– Those are really the “essence” of a living being.
– In the case of a brahma, that is basically all there is. Of course, there is arising of thoughts (cittaja kaya), and the utuja kaya (“aura body”) that is due to the cittaja kaya.
– That is also the essence of a human or animal gandhabba. However, a gandhabba can “absorb” aroma and acquire a trace of matter, the finest state of a karaja kaya. Our karaja kaya (physical body) is the VERY DENSE form of that karaja kaya.“3) The 6 bahiddha äyatana are also not the 6 physical sense faculties either right? Bahiddha äyatana are the rupa rupa from the material world that enter the 5 physical sense doors(eye, ear,nose, tongue, body) and the mano rupa from the mental world that enter the mano indriya?”
Correct. Very good observation.
“4) The 6 external physical sense doors(eyes, ear,nose, tongue, body, mano indriya) are not what does the actual sensing right? They are merely the doors, the gateway for either rupa rupa/mano rupa to enter these doors and eventually transfer to the 6 internal mental sense faculties? Because it’s these 6 internal mental sense faculties(pasada rupa and hadaya vatthu) which does the actual feeling/sensing of the material and mental world?”
Yes. Our physical eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and the mana indriya just help in getting the “signals” coming from bahiddha äyatana to the ajjhatta äyatana.
“5) Why are they called ayatana instead of indriya? Because isn’t everything we sense initially neutral thus are indriya rather than ayatana?”
Those indriya become ayatana due to avijja and tanha: We not only “see”, “hear”, etc, but also attach our likings/cravings to those signals.
– That is why only an Arahant uses them as indriya.
“Indriya and Āyatana – Big Difference”You are almost there in grasping the essence!
Yes. As one cultivates the Path, anusaya (as well as samyojana, ditthi, etc) are weakened.
– Then they are removed in four stages:
Conditions for the Four Stages of Nibbāna“I was wondering suppose a human reaches Sotapanna stage and dies to be born as a human again or in some other bhava, how does he/she remember the Dhamma that was learned from the past life?”
The same way that a child remembers a past life.
– The only difference is that a Sotapanna’s mind will never lose that “knowledge” whether born as a human or deva.“If there is no real thoughtful or conscious plan or intention to kill but one kills habitually, does that differ regarding kamma-vipaka? My feeling is it does. ”
The whole idea of practicing Buddha Dhamma is to remove such bad habits.
– One kills (or steals, or misbehaves) out of habit BECAUSE one has cultivated those (even starting from previous lives).
– So, one needs to start getting rid of any such habit by being mindful.“Sati in Ānapānasati/Satipatthāna – Two Meanings of Sati”
Also:
“9. Key to Anapanasati – How to Change Habits and Character (Gathi)“
