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This is a bit complex issue.
The key is that each person will who is on the Path will start seeing the futility of certain activities and that really depends on the individual. One may not yet be an Anagami, but one may see the futility of reading fiction, for example, as I did long ago.
– Another person may still like to read fiction, but may lose the desire to watch TV, for example.It is not that one loses all kama raga at the moment of attaining the Anagami stage. One will lose the last bits of leftovers at the at moment.
Eventually, one sees the unfruitfulness of doing any types of sankhara, when getting “sabba sankharesu anicca sanna” at the Arahant stage.
– That is what is meant by, “Sabbe sankhara anicca“.
– As I mentioned in a previous posting, An Arahant lives only for the benefit of others. He/she can only see the futility of any worldly action. Of course, most of us cannot even begin to comprehend that. And one should not try either.It is a gradual process to get there, and each person will progress in one’s own way.
Yes, Johnny.
That is a good way to express it.
Most people do not realize how harmful these vaci sankhara or “day dreaming” are.- Ven. Channa was very sick and was in great pain.
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When he told Ven. Sariputta that he was going to commit suicide, Ven. Sariputta tried to prevent it, because he suspected that Ven. Channa was not an Arahant.
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He actually questioned Ven. Channa to figure out whether he was an Arahant. Even though Ven. Channa told him directly that he was an Arahant, Ven. Sariputta apparently did not believe it.
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When Ven. Channa committed suicide, Ven. Sariputta went and asked the Buddha what his next birth and gati were. Buddha asked Ven. Sariputta, “did not Ven. Channa tell you that he was an Arahant?”.
– Ven. Sariputta says he suspected Ven. Channa was not an Arahant because he had close ties to his family.
– The Buddha said Ven. Channa was indeed an Arahant and was not reborn anywhere in the 31 realms.There was no point in living with such pain. Arahants live only for the benefit of others.
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Whether it is a translation to English or Sinhala, if “assasa passasa” is translated in the context of Anapana bhavana, then it does NOT mean “breathing in, breathing out”.
It is not a “software translation”. It was done by a person named Zoysa who lived in Sri Lanka (the authorship is shown in the link).
The Buddha has given clear instructions on how to answer a question in the
“Pañhabyākaraṇa Sutta (AN 4.42)“.Some questions definitely need to be answered,
some need to be explained in detail,
third type needs to be answered with a counter-question,
and the fourth, should not be answered.I know that most of the questioners are sincere. However, it is really a distraction to try to answer some questions. And such questions/answers do not benefit many in the audience.
I see some forums where people just make comments that go on on and do not provide any substance.
– So, I will not answer some questions and leave it up to others to answer if they like.
– I will not answer some questions that already have good answers from others.
– I will delete some questions/answers if I decide that they are unlikely to lead to any benefit.P.S. Sometimes I am on travel or get tied up or just may not see a posted question/comment.
Tobias: I did not want to get into details, but there is a deep “interconnectedness” in Nature that is just now being discussed in quantum mechanics regarding the “connectedness” of even inert particles. I mentioned it briefly in my earlier post:
“However, the gati of the mother and father at the current time may have an effect too, especially if they are very different. Everything in this world is inter-connected in a subtle way:”Quantum Entanglement – We Are All Connected“.”
Let me try to give the gist of it: Two electrons can be created simultaneously with two opposing spins (say A with spin up and B with spin down). Then they can be sent to two opposite ends even across the universe, and they remain “entangled”. That means if the spin A is flipped, then the spin of B will flip AT THE SAME TIME. It is as if they can interact with each other across the universe instantaneously.
Together with a friend of mind, I wrote a paper proposing a new interpretation of quantum theory based on nonlocality (I perceived the basic idea from Prof. Feynman’s work in quantum electrodynamics). But it got rejected from several journals, because physicists refuse to believe that the “light speed barrier” can be broken: Einstein’s relativity theory says nothing can propagate faster than light.
But here nothing actually “travels” between the two “connected electrons”. They are intrinsically connected.
Anyway, where I want to go with this is that kammic energy has instantaneous influence across the universe.
In the case of the sperm and egg, those “gathi” remain “attached” to the parents. So, it is very likely that the gathi that influence the gandhabba are the gathi of the parents at the time of gandhabba “taking possession” of the zygote created by the sperm and egg.
Anyway, that is what the new section on quantum mechanics is about:
“Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma“““BIKKHUS, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding.”
This verse says, even if one does harm to you, don’t get angry. Even though that is advice for bhikkhus, that is what even a lay person should strive for, whenever possible.
You said: “And please read the suttas I sent to you cause you clearly didn’t get them.”
I have read those suttas and they do not recommend violence even to lay people. It is true that bhikkhus have more strict rules, but there is nowhere in the Tipitaka it says even lay people should resort to violence.
This may not be a suitable forum for you. Just read about kamma and kamma vipaka before you make anymore senseless comments. Laws of kamma DO NOT distinguish between bhikkhus and lay people. Kamma vipaka for a given kamma are the same regardless of who does it.
Dhamma123 said: “See? There is a case for self defense when it is necessary.”
You are trying hard to twist what is meant there. “.guarding and watching so that kings would not seize it, thieves would not steal it, fire would not burn it, water would not carry it away, nor ill-disposed heirs remove it. This is the accomplishment of watchfulness.”
That does not mean violence. That is how I live my life too, and I do not need to harm anyone. I take steps to PREVENT anyone from stealing. Please stop twisting Buddha Dhamma. You may not know this, but making false statements about Dhamma is worse than many others immoral actions.
Dhamma123 said: “Anyway, does anybody want to answer my question about pain management?”
One needs to go to a physician (take appropriate medicine) for physical pain management.
In order to lessen self-induced mental suffering, one needs to stay away from dasa akusala; see, “Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)”
This physical body that you have is a result of past kamma, some good and some bad. You got a human body because of some good kamma. If you have any physical ailments, that is due to a combination of your past bad kamma AND the way you live (how well you eat, exercise, etc).
So, what we need to do is to make sure we don’t do anything immoral (including stop making false statements about Buddha Dhamma), live a simple life and do good deeds (kamma) so that we can have less suffering in the future.
Dhamma123 said: “It’s not clear to you yet? Okay, I’ll share this Sutta with you to help you understand. https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.054.nara.html
As you can see, violence is not always wrong or undesirable for a lay person as long as there is a necessity for it and it’s performed with a right intention.”Please copy and paste the section that says violence is appropriate for a lay person.
Dhamma123 said: “He (Buddha) never said evil should defeat good, thus he never declared violence must always be avoided for lay people. I hope this is clear.”
It is not clear at all.
You are thinking in mundane terms, trying to overcome evil by more evil. Like : “If someone hits you, you have a right to hit back; may be even you can get rid of his threats by just killing him” sort of an attitude.
This is a hard point for many people to understand. The “time lag” involved in results (kamma vipaka) for one’s actions (kamma); see, “Four Noble Truths – Suffering and Its Elimination“. At least read starting from #14.
One may be able to “solve the problem” of being threatened by someone by just killing him. That is the mundane solution. But one will be paying for that immoral act by suffering for a long time in an apaya.
– That is what one should really fear.
– And that fear can be removed by getting to the Sotapanna stage. One will never do such acts and thus one will never be born in an apaya.The kind of pain and fear that you are experiencing is at the next level. That pain and fear will be removed at the Anagami stage. Then one would never embrace even “moral sense pleasures” because one could see the drawbacks (and dangers) of those too.
– This may be a harder point to comprehend. The closest analogy is that of a fish biting into a “tasty bait”. The fish is not doing anything immoral per se. But it does not see the “hidden suffering” and excruciating pain that would result if it bites that bait. That is called avijja or ignorance.
– In the same way, most people don’t the see the pain and suffering that they experience is due to their actions based on cravings. This is hard to see for an ordinary human, just like a fish cannot see the suffering hidden in the tasty bait. Even Sotapannas have difficulty with that.That is why one needs to proceed step-by-step. First learn more TRUE Dhamma and try to remove future suffering in the apayas by getting to the Sotapanna stage.
– But one must first get rid of the 10 types of miccha ditthi one has (which you obviously have, because your understanding of kamma and kamma vipaka is poor).
– I would recommend to you or anyone interested the following sections;
“Moral Living and Fundamentals” and first subsections in:
“Living Dhamma“Dhamma123: There is nothing there to backup your claim: ““Which is why Lord Buddha never said his lay followers must always avoid violence, in fact he did advice Kings to have armies and police personnel.”
In any case, in your first post on this topic you said: “I have some sense of fear when it comes to pain, I pressume it has to do with aversion to pain.”
Everyone is afraid of pain. No one likes the pain and tries to avoid pain.
I am not sure why you think it is just you.The solution is always to live a moral and simple life, avoiding extreme greed and extreme anger first. Our minds are stressed with excess greed and hate that arises due to ignorance of the real nature of this this world.
If you like, you can read some of the posts in this section:
Living Dhamma – FundamentalsDhamma123 said: “I’m sad and disappointed I had to explain that..”
You did not explain anything, according to Buddha Dhamma.
You said: “Which is why Lord Buddha never said his lay followers must always avoid violence, in fact he did advice Kings to have armies and police personnel.”
Again, when you make statements like this, please give a reference in the Tipitaka. Buddha NEVER gave such advice. Where did you learn this “Dhamma”?
It is definitely not Buddha Dhamma.“I hope this isn’t another westernized hippie forum.”
I don’t know what you mean by a “hippie forum”. This is a forum on Buddha Dhamma.
“Lord Buddha never said violence must ALWAYS be rejected by lay people.”
I am not sure what you mean by that. If someone is being beaten, he/she should not give-in to that beating willingly.
– There are ways to avoid beating in the first place (by not doing harm to others.
– Getting beaten up could be unavoidable kamma vipaka (having beaten someone previously in a vicious way) or by making conditions suitable for a kamma vipaka to come to fruition.You may want to read the post: “What is Kamma? – Is Everything Determined by Kamma?“.
Dhamma123 said: ” I live in a world where violence in speech/body can be useful for self defense.”
It is up to each person to decide how to live one’s life. The Buddha only pointed out the consequences of violent acts against others. It does not matter whether one is a bhikkhu or not.
You said: “Lord Buddha said it is impossible to live in this world without harming anybody..”.
That did not include violence. That meant, for example, in following cases:
When one walks on grass, one may be killing a lot of small insects. When one applies medicine to a wound, one may be killing a lot of microscopic living beings. Those are not intentional and cannot be avoided.But hitting someone, just because that person hit you, can be avoided. And it will save a lot of suffering in the future for oneself (and for the other person too, since if you hit him he may hit back again). By the way, this is what is really meant by being mindful (Anapana/Satipatthana).
Violence CANNOT be stopped by more violence. That is what y not explained above.
Yeos: “As they did in Japan i.e. see Takuan’s and the samurais.”
Let us not get to these weird topics on samurai. This is a forum on Buddha Dhamma. I am just going to delete any such future posts.
Buddha Dhamma is based on non-violence. One has to understand that first.
Retaliating likewise may seem rational, but it is not. One will pay the consequences in future lives. This is what is so hard for many people to understand. There is a time lag of doing bad deeds and reaping their benefits. I discussed this in the most recent post,”Four Noble Truths – Suffering and Its Elimination“.
