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Yes. This means there has been a continuous line of humans in South Asia, from Buddha Kassapa to Buddha Gotama.
- The geography may have changed somewhat, but as stated in #6 of the post, “The Buddha provides a similar account in the “Vepullapabbatta Sutta (SN 15.20).” He describes how a particular mountain had three different names and heights during the times of each Buddha.”
Also, note that even if most of the human population is wiped out (that could have happened before Buddha Kassapa), even a relatively few surviving humans can “regenerate” or “build back” the human population over time since most of those who died in a calamity would stay in the human gandhabba state.
1. When a human is born in the “human bhava” (not the birth of a baby from a womb; that is “jati“) the manomaya kaya will have a certain “mindset” (called “uppatti bhavanga“) that will NOT change until that human bhava comes to an end at the cuti-patisandhi moment.
- Thus, that “uppatti bhavanga” remains the same for many thousands (possibly even millions) of years. It is associated with the manomaya kaya (gandhabba) born when grasping the human bhava. Thus, every time that gandhabba is reborn with a physical body (manussa), it will have the same “uppatti bhavanga.“
- That “uppatti bhavanga” will have the “kama sanna” associated with the “gati” that led to the human bhava.
- For example, the “sweetness of sugar” or the “yucky taste of rotten food.”
- A pig will have a very different set of “kama sanna” associated with the “gati” that led to the pig bhava. It will taste “rotten food as tasty.”
2. Even the Buddha (or any Arahant) will still have the same “uppatti bhavanga” they were born with.
- That is why they will also taste the “sweetness of sugar” or the “yucky taste of rotten food.”
3. Any mind works like a machine, according to nature’s rules. These rules are embedded in Paticca Samuppada and also in the laws of kamma.
I will write a bit more later today. Feel free to ask questions on the above or anything else related.
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I decided to delete that post.
Your comments are correct. Thank you for pointing them out. Please don’t hesitate to point out such issues.
- Many terms in Paticca Samuppada are in the “uddesa version,” and the “niddesa versions” must be used to get the correct interpretation. Specifically, saṅkhāra (abhisaṅkhāra), viññāna (kamma viññāna), phassa (samphassa), vedanā (samphassa-jā-vedanā). See “Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa.”
- I will review the posts in the “Paṭicca Samuppāda in Plain English” section and revise them as needed. If anyone sees any other posts needing revision, please post here.
Thank you, Jittananto.
- Yes. If one has become a Sotapanna Anugami, that person will attain the Sotapanna stage before dying (at least at the moment of death).
Of course, one must have learned the correct Buddha Dhamma from an Ariya (a Noble Person) and must have become a Sotapanna Anugami at some point in that life.
- That is explained in “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyā.” See #5 there, which is confirmed by the sutta that Jittananto provided.
- The verse Jittananto quoted comes at the end of that sutta.
- Of course, if one has not become a Sotapanna Anugami up to the moment of death, attaining the Sotapanna stage at the moment of death will not be possible.
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I looked into the “Siddhartha”/“Siddhattha” issue.
- I was unable to find a reference in the Tipitaka for either one!
- I never thought about this before because Prince Siddhatta’s early life is well known. I wonder where that account is in Tipitaka.
These are exceptional cases. It seems that only Buddha Kassapa was able to decipher those sounds (it does not mean those “niraya beings” were speaking in Pāli).
Very good!
“First, to help me understand “distorted saññā”, I call it “bhavanga saññā” to note that it is saññā embedded in a bhava.”
- Yes, that is fine. We need to understand the concept. If that helps, it is a good way to remember that “distorted saññā” varies among different bhava.
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Lang wrote:
Using my understanding of citta vithi in processing sense inputs, I’m thinking something like this:
(1) In processing a sense object via the five physical senses we have: 1 pañcadvāra citta vīthi + 3 manōdvāra citta vīthī.
Each citta in a citta vīthi has a saññā cetasika since it is a universal cetasika.
(2) The saññā cetasika in a pañcadvāra citta vīthi is the “distorted saññā”.
In the 3 manōdvāra citta vīthī that follow, the saññā cetasika can become saññā vipallāsa for a puthujjana, but not for an arahant.
(3) For an arahant in arahant-phala samapatti, there is only the pabhassara citta flowing, and thus there is no “distorted saññā”. The pabhassara citta is not a pañcadvāra citta nor even a manōdvāra citta.
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- It is better to revise (2) as follows:
(2) The saññā cetasika in a pañcadvāra citta vīthi is the “distorted saññā”.
In the 3 manōdvāra citta vīthī that follow, the saññā cetasika still carries that “distorted saññā.” Because of that saññā vipallāsa other cetasika like lobha, dosa, moha will keep arising for a puthujjana, in each subsequent manōdvāra citta vithis (and also subsequent citta vithis; remember that millions of citta vithi can run within seconds and with each citta vithi defilements get stronger). Of course, this does not happen for an arahant.
- It is better to revise (3) as follows:
(3) For an arahant in arahant-phala samapatti, there is only the pabhassara citta flowing, and thus there is no “distorted saññā.” The pabhassara citta is a manōdvāra citta. (All cittas arise in mind, but these cittas do not require any of the “five doors” (pancadvara); they arise directly in mind.
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You are right, Lang.
- The “Cakkavatti Sutta (DN 26)” describes the coming of the Buddha Metteyya.
- So, Maitreya is indeed the “Sanskritized” word.
Also, “Siddhartha” could be Sanskrit for “Siddhattha.” I will look into it later.
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Here, “sa” indicates “oneself,” and “para” indicates “someone else” or “not oneself.” Also. “kata” means “action” in the sense of “who is responsible.”
- “‘sayaṅkataṁ dukkhan’ti?” means “Is suffering caused by oneself?”
- “paraṅkataṁ dukkhan’ti?” means “Is suffering caused by someone else?”
- “sayaṅkatañ ca paraṅkatañ ca dukkhan’ti?” means “Is suffering caused by oneself and someone else?” Here “ca” is used to indicate “and”.
- “asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhan’ti?” means “Is suffering NOT caused by oneself or someone else but happens without a cause?”
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Q2. I want to understand why sayaṅkataṁ dukkhan is connected to sassata ditthi, and why paraṅkataṁ dukkhan is connected to uccheda ditthi.
- The explanation is here: “Acelakassapa Sutta (SN 12.17)“: ” Suppose that the person who does the deed experiences the result. Then, for one who has existed since the beginning, suffering is made by oneself. This statement leans toward eternalism (sassata).” Here, since the “same person” who goes through the rebirth process, one is supposed to experience the results of past kamma (done by oneself).”
- On the other hand, since one with uccheda ditthi does not believe in the concept of a soul-like entity doing everything and reaping the consequences, here the explanation (@5.2) is based on the idea “it is not the same person who does the kamma and reaps the consequence of that kamma” per annihilationism (uccheda ditthi).
- Of course, Buddha’s explanation is neither of those. Kammas may or may not lead to future vipaka, and it is only a process based on causes and conditions (Paticca Samuppada). Here, there is no reference to an “unchanging self.” Yet, it does not deny that there is a person doing kamma and there is also a person experiencing vipaka; they are not the same but causally connected.
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Q3. I’m also curious why sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhan or asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhan are not mentioned. What is the meaning of each of them?
- It is there @ 3.7: “‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhan’ti?”
- The explanation should be clear from the above.
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1. All Buddhās teach in the Māgadhi language.
- Māgadhi= “maga” + “adhi” where “maga” is “path” and “adhi” means “superior.”
- Thus, it means the language used to explain the “Noble Path.”
- That is also the “language” of the Brahmas. Of course, there is no spoken language in Brahma realms. However, that is the “natural way” they communicate via thoughts.
- When “Brahmakayika humans” first populate the Earth, they also don’t have dense bodies and thus do not “speak to each other.” They use the same “language,” and when they gradually acquire dense bodies, Māgadhi becomes a spoken language.
- Pāli is derived from Māgadhi, and Sinhala is derived from Pāli. As I mentioned before, all the terms in Paticca Samuppada are the same in the Sinhala language as in Pāli.
- Tipiṭaka was written in Pāli with Sinhala script. Pāli is a version of Māghadhi suitable for writing down oral discourses in a summary form suitable for transmission.
2. In the “Mahāpadāna Sutta (DN 14),” Buddha Gotama provides the lifetimes of humans (lifetimes of the physical bodies, not the duration of human bhava“).
- As stated where I linked to above, it varies from 80,000 years (Vipassī Buddha’s time) to around 100 years (Gotama Buddha’s time.) It is expected to increase again by the time Buddha Maitreya appears on this Earth (last Buddha on this Earth.)
- The environment for a given Buddha adjusts naturally; those are details we cannot expect to understand. I guess languages evolve to become Māgadhi , at least in the region where a Buddha is to be born.
- Just like the lifetimes, many things move up and down with the passage of time.
3. Regarding: “Q. What language do they speak in heavens and hells? A. Pali,..”
- That is not correct. We don’t know how communication happens in Deva realms or hells (apayas). I don’t think animals have “languages.” They have limited capabilities for communication.
In any case, those are issues that are not critical to cultivating the Noble Path.
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I just posted: “Vedās Originated With Buddha Kassapa’s Teachings.”
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It is a good question.
The main ideas to resolve that puzzle are the following:
7. Since dhammā have energies, they can “come to a mind” on their own. That is how kamma bijās bring their vipāka. For example, suppose you hit someone and injured him last year. It was an incident, and a memory of it is in viññāṇa dhātu. But besides being a memory, it has kammic energy associated with it so that it can bring vipāka at some point. They bring vipāka under suitable conditions, and we have some control over that by being aware of that; see “Anantara and Samanantara Paccayā.”
- Nāmagotta (records of memories) are also in viññāṇa dhātu, but they don’t have any energy. Therefore, they don’t come to our minds randomly. But we can willfully recall them. For example, consider another incident that also happened last year, say meeting a famous person and shaking his hand. That is only a memory because there is no kammic energy associated with it. But you can probably recall that incident. If someone tells you, “Didn’t you meet that person last year?” you take a moment to recall it, and that memory comes back to your mind. That is a nāmagotta that came back as a dhammā when you tried to recall it.
The above is from the post “Rupa, Dhammā (Appaṭigha Rupa) and Nāmagotta (Memories).” You need to read the post to understand it fully.
- “Nāmagotta” are not “entities” in the sense of a “material thing” or “energy.” Thus, it is not a sankhata but a “record of a sankhata.”
- For example, consider the “seeing event” of looking at a tree. It registered in the mind as a sankhata (cakkhu vinnana, which is only a vipaka vinnana.) That sankhata arose and passed away; only its “record” is saved as nāmagotta, and no energy is associated with it. To recall that memory, one needs to spend some energy, as explained in that post.
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We are all sorry to hear about your situation, y not. Thank you for your participation in discussions over the years.
- Every one of us will face the same situation. It is even possible that I may encounter the end before you. Life is unpredictable. All we can do is to be “ready” to face the eventuality at any time by making our best effort to progress a little bit more on our path.
- I believe you have done your part.
By the way, there is no need to thank me, but thank you all for your thoughts. I started this website to express my gratitude to the Buddha, Waharaka Thero, and several others (I don’t want to name any more names because I will inevitably leave out a name or two) who helped me start understanding how to avoid this situation in the future.
- The best way to pay our gratitude to the Buddha and those other Noble Persons is to help others understand this profound Dhamma by participating in discussions and (whenever possible) letting others know about the “previously unheard teachings of the Buddha.”
- Even though Waharaka Thero initiated this resurgence, we are collectively making even more progress. I believe the recent series of posts on “distorted sanna” is an aspect of the deeper Dhamma. Specifically, it shows that our cravings are based on a mirage (false value of sensual pleasures) built into our bodies via Paticca Samuppada. That idea came to me with insights from a few others (I must mention Dr. Chandana Jayasinghe specifically, even though we don’t know each other). I got the idea while thinking about the concepts of “purana kamma” and “nava kamma” stages he discussed; see #4 of “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- Future generations will make even more progress, and hopefully, there will be living Arahants, too, in the near future.
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Yes. These are subtle but critical points to be understood.
- The arising of the “distorted kama sanna” compels most people to engage in papa kamma (immoral deeds).
- This concept about the arising of the “distorted sanna” in general (in all realms) and specifically the “distorted kama sanna” in the kama loka realms is not understood by many.
- Most people try to suppress “kama raga” by willpower. But that can lead to agitation in mind (patigha.)
- It becomes much easier to control “kama raga” if one can see that “kama raga” arises due to “distorted kama sanna” built into our bodies! See “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
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No. Pancakkhandha (absent of distorted or defiled rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana) arise only in an Arahant while in “Arahant phala samaptti.” Only then do all those five entities arise in their “pure form.”
- While living day-to-day life, an Arahant also receives the “distorted kama sanna” (the sweetness of sugar, etc.) in the “distorted” bahiddha vinnana stage.
- For a puthujjana, that “distorted kama sanna” instantly turns into a “defiled” ajjhatta vinnana. That is because of the attachment to pancupadanakkhandha, which has been accumulated and still affects their minds.
- That is explicitly stated in the “Mahāpuṇṇama Sutta (MN 109)“: “Yo kho, bhikkhu, pañcasu upādānakkhandhesu chandarāgo taṁ tattha upādānan’ti” OR “The desire and greed for the five grasping aggregates is the grasping there.”
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