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Nice, so you agree that there are only 4 jhānās.
But I didn’t get why you said it’s incorrect to say the thing that you quoted from my comment.
Don’t we both agree that the states above 4th jhānā should not be called jhānās?
Also, I am aware that the ninth one is not a jhānā, I was just saying that some people call it 9th jhānā.
Well if that’s true the sutta would have a correct interpretation in my opinion.
However I looked up the definition of counterpart
COUNTERPART | English meaning – Cambridge Dictionary
and it says“a person or thing that has the same purpose as another one in a different place or organization”So if it literally meant counterpart, wouldn’t that mean that sukha is a direct cause of dukkha?I think the problem is that in Pali the compound word is counter-part but not the counterpart as a single word as in English.I read the post but I am still not sure wether an arahant experiences pleasure and pain out of distorted sanna
Here you said “note that it is not defiled, i.e., does not have rāga, dosa, or moha”
and in the “Saññā Nidānā hi Papañca Saṅkhā – Immoral Thoughts Based on ‘Distorted Saññā’ post you said “The key point is that their minds do not even go through the purāna kamma stage”
But also in this post you have translated “Their five sensory faculties remain. So long as their sensory faculties operate, they continue to experience the agreeable/disagreeable and to feel bodily pleasure/pain.”
Does that mean that even an arahant feels pain, and if so, is it only from the body sense organ?
In this post, you have stated:
“Even an Arahant will experience those dukha or sukha vedana as long as he/she is alive. Only “samphassa-jā-vēdanā” will not arise in an Arahant.”
If those vedana are dukkha and sukha and they are not samphassa-ja-vedana, doesn’t that imply that the body has built-in pleasure and pain, even for a pure mind?
Yes Lal, I see what you mean by watching movies for education instead of being attached with raga but does raga always cause suffering in a idappaccayātā PS cycle due to jara and marana? Does having pleasure cause pain after a period of time?
Thanks Lal, this may be it, but I remember that you were disecting adhimokkha into several factors, not adhimokkha itself being a factor in the list. Do you think you made a post like this? Or maybe I just don’t remember correctly and this was actually the post I am looking for.
Yes, I did read the post, but I am confused on why simply enjoying a sense object causes suffering.
Does enjoying a sense object automatically make us greedy and addicted to it?
Also I read one sutta where the Buddha said that the Bhikkhus are fortunate to experience likable sense objects.
You can read it in 1-2 minutes.
SN 35.135: Khaṇasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net)
What do you think about the sutta and why does one have to give up enjoying the senses to enter nibbana or even Jhana?
Thanks for the post Lal, I read it again and I think things are clear now.
But the link you posted actually doesn’t lead to the post (it leads to this forum thread)
Please fix it so other people can open the post :)Lal, I was being curious where you got this from (nirodha samapatti = parinibbana)
In this post Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti you stated:
Nirōdha samāpatti is succinctly described in a verse in the Mahāvedalla Sutta (MN 43), where the difference between a dead body and the body of one in nirōdha samāpatti is described
So my question to you is: Do you think Nirodha samapatti is just like parinibbana because of this sutta: Mahāvedalla Sutta (MN 43), and do you think that is so because nirodha samapatti is being closely related to a dead body (no sankhara), or did you get this from another source?
