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– “How can Dukkha be felt as Sukha, Dukha and AdukhamaSukha”
Dukkha to me doesn’t necessary mean just “suffering” as a (vedana). But of course I could agree to that dukkha can mean suffering (as a vedana), suffering that can be removed, unsatisfactoriness and other meanings.
Something for consideration is that from my current understanding, one should look / see / contemplate “dukkha” beyond than just vedana itself. Not taking dukkha just as vedana, but also as a characteristic, process, mechanism.
Here’s a post from PD that can help to further communicate what I’m trying to convey.
This past while, I have been trying to come up with other possible ways to contemplate, see, understand more about “dukkha”. So far what I have been able to think of to contemplate more on what dukkha could possibly mean is, “defiled / corruption / corrupted / corrupting”. What’s quite interesting to me is that some of the definitions for the word “corruption” actually could convey some of the examples that I believe to fit dukkha quite well as a characteristic / process / mechanism. Here are some examples.
The action or effect of making someone or something impure.The process by which something is changed from its original state to one regarded as erroneous.The act or state of worsening or making or getting worse.The characteristic of being devious or underhanded.The wrong or improper use of something.A corrupting influence that is difficult to eradicate.A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something.Distortion or corruption of the original course, meaning, or state of something.A fault or flaw that compromises someone or something.An act involving dishonesty or deception.Many of these definitions resonate with me especially “A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something”.
A perfect example of this definition that relates to dukkha (for me) would be when we experience dependently originated feelings such as sukha. When a puthujjana experiences sukha, they believe that sukha comes from the outside world. It could possibly be from a “thing, object, item, person” and so on. But they don’t know, see, understand the true reality of the sukha that their experiencing or the phenomenon that they’re experiencing. So what puthujjana’s do is when they experience a pleasurable / pleasant experience, they try to maintain this experience or continuously seek experiences that can bring sukha (pleasurable, pleasant experiences) either through moral or immoral means. To me, as long as one doesn’t understand and see at that moment how that sukha vedana or any phenomenon arises, any dependently originated vedana or phenomenon is a false / distorted representation.
– Is everything Dukkha? If so “what” is overcome and “how”?
It’s my believe that everything is dukkha as long as one doesn’t understand and mindfully meditate on the 4 Noble truths / samma ditthi with each experience / phenomena and maintaining it through one’s experiences with samma sati and samma samadhi.To me, in short as long as avija, asava’s, vipallasa’s, defilements still remains for that satta, that is dukkha even if one is experiencing sukha (pleasurable, pleasant sensations) that is dependently originated.
“What is overcome?” Avija, asava’s, defilements, kilesa’s, anusaya’s or basically corruptions / distortions / defiled / akusala views, perceptions and thoughts.
“How?” That’s the Noble 8 Fold Path.
I have been trying to look into the etymology of “dukkha”. On wikipedia, it mentions: “the term dukkha has often been derived from the prefix du (“bad” or “difficult”) and the root kha (“empty,” “hole”), meaning a badly fitting axle-hole of a cart or chariot giving “a very bumpy ride,it may actually be derived from duḥ-stha, a “dis-/ bad- + stand-“, that is, “standing badly, unsteady,” “unstable.”Joseph Goldstein, American vipassana teacher and writer, explains the etymology as follows:The word dukkha is made up of the prefix du and the root kha. Du means “bad” or “difficult”. Kha means “empty”. “Empty”, here, refers to several things—some specific, others more general. One of the specific meanings refers to the empty axle hole of a wheel. If the axle fits badly into the center hole, we get a very bumpy ride. This is a good analogy for our ride through saṃsāra.
The meaning of su is quite apparent to me, but I’m not very sure what “kha” is?What I can find and other materials not mentioned for shorter posting:Source: BuddhaSasana: Concise Pali-English Dictionarykha : (nt.) space; sky.Source: Sutta: The Pali Text Society’s Pali-English DictionaryKha, syllable & ending, functioning also as root, meaning “void, empty” or as n. meaning “space”; expld. by Bdhgh with ref. to dukkha as “khaṃ saddo pana tucche; tucchaṃ hi ākāsaṃ khan ti vuccati” <abbr title=”Visuddhi-magga”>Vism. 494.—In meaning “space, sky” in cpd. khaga “sky-goer”PD post:“Dukkha (dukha+khya) means there is hidden suffering AND that suffering can be eliminated (khya is removal”.Would like to ask for others teachings or explanations on other possible meanings of “kha” that I might have missed or not brought up.For myself, this was a good example that showed the difficulty of attaining Stream-entry even no matter how intelligent or gifted one is. With Queen Mallika, she even had Venerable Ananda visit the palace regularly to teach the dhamma and she still didn’t attain stream-entry within her life time. But still learning and practicing the dhamma would benefit the life stream (Queen Mallika) bhava, jati’s to come.
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Theruwan Saranai us living beings.
I recently came across this video and thought it could be additional material relating to this thread and the video made some points that could relate to our own experiences in everyday life. As well some of the challenges we face with our own and others mind when we’re trying to comprehend / share the “truth”.
Currently I have the understanding of nama-rupa to have two and open to possibly more interpretations. Two of these interpretations of nama-rupa that I have come across are “mind” (nama), “energy / matter” (rupa) and the other, “name” (nama) and “form” (rupa).It’s mentioned:“Paññatti means “to establish conventions” to characterize things in this world so that people can communicate among themselves.- Each language has assigned “names” for things, time, etc. “
This is something very similar to how I understand nama-rupa as “name” and “form”.Would “Paññatti” have a similar meaning / idea / concept as “name” and “form” for the interpretation of nama-rupa?I usually always have work on the weekends. I won’t be able to attend the meetings but I’ll look into the recordings if there’s any. Have a great meetings everyone!
Thank you very much Venerable sir for the pragmatic response. I require some additional time and further contemplation to write out a satisfactory response in this thread for feedback / evaluation.
Throughout the years, I have seen many discussions online in regards to Tibetan (Vajrayana) Buddhism. Many many times I wanted to comment but in the end decided to keep quiet. Let’s just say I can’t find anything good or positive to say about the tradition. . .Never having practiced or directly experience the tradition, but have done some research into the tradition and practice. Now seeing what Christian have brought up, I hope to provide additional support / grounds for the things he had mentioned.I would pat Christian on shoulder and look at others with a sigh . . .Saket mentioned:“However, I am not sure whether the Dalai Lama also do these extreme practices. I think he is a good person.”Here’s something for other’s consideration. . .Pretty much everyone out there isn’t aware of the current Dalai Lama background. What I’m willing to say right now is that the current Dalai Lama is or was an “asset” to a certain major country organization with a certain “agenda” initially to carry out.I’m not here to try convincing others what to think / believe in, but I have an online resource that proves what I just mentioned and it’s not something that I really want to show or share around . . . unnecessary. But I’m willing to share something else.I haven’t read everything from the PDF, not going to and don’t recommend others to do so unless they want to go down a rabbit hole. But if someone wants to take a quick glance or curious, I would say just check out the table of contents and the first few paragraphs of Chapter 4. The Law of Inversion. I think that should give someone a general idea what they’re dealing with Tibetan (Vajrayana) Buddhism. Connect the things I brought up in this post with what Christian had just mentioned, you guys can come to your own conclusion.I can’t confirm or verify everything in the PDF, but in my 18 years plus of having gone down a very deep rabbit hole. Connecting the things mentioned in the PDF and what I have researched into / learned about this mundane world, I can see the connections and more . . .To end this post off . . . C&P from an online link . . .“Details.com speaks of the experiences of a boy….Last September, after a teaching session in Vancouver, someone in the audience asked Kalu about sexual abuse in the monasteries. He replied that he was sensitive to it because he had been molested.
The boy’s name is Kalu Rinpoche, a reincarnated thingie of some long-dead person (aka randomly selected baby). He created a video titled “Confessions of Kalu Rinpoche,” he says that he was molested by elder monks…”sexually abused by elder monks,” and when he was 18 his tutor in the monastery threatened him at knifepoint. “It’s all about money, power, controlling. . . . And then I became a drug addict because of all this misunderstanding and I went crazy.”
A gang of older monks who would visit his room each week…..This was hard-core sex, he says, including penetration. “Most of the time, they just came alone,” he says. “They just banged the door harder, and I had to open. I knew what was going to happen, and after that you become more used to it.” It wasn’t until Kalu returned to the monastery after his three-year retreat that he realized how wrong this practice was. By then the cycle had begun again on a younger generation of victims, he says. Kalu’s claims of sexual abuse mirror those of Lodoe Senge, an ex-monk and 23-year-old tulku who now lives in Queens, New York. “When I saw the video,” Senge says of Kalu’s confessions, “I thought, ‘Shit, this guy has the balls to talk about it when I didn’t even have the courage to tell my girlfriend.’” Senge was abused, he says, as a 5-year-old by his own tutor, a man in his late twenties, at a monastery in India.
Another interesting post was written by the Huffington Post. It is particularly notable because only the cached version is available.
It speaks of the experiences of a young girl, she too had been raped by monks. More surprising was the reaction of the authorities of the Tibetan community:
As shocking as the alleged crime was the revelation that the Mundgod camp officer and settlement officer had encouraged the father of the child not to pursue criminal charges against the men. Why? Out of fear of shaming HH the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan people.
Widespread child abuse and even rape at his temples, yet he has very little to say on the matter…. Yet another case of See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil.
Actually the practices and more that’s been brought up in this post is this world current main ritual / tradition / practice just with a different name / face at the highest level of organizations that people put their trust in. I can only sigh and shake my head, but hey this is the current mundane world, what can I do except to strive for my own salvation and do my best to help others as well.What I can say to others is that the current mundane truth about this planet / events is not what the majority can see or believe it to be.I found some additional posts related to this current discussion.
Response to a Sensory Stimulus – Role of Gati/Anusaya
The Amazing Mind – Critical Role of Nāmagotta (Memories)
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Thank you very much for the revision and the additional explanation, for me that makes things more clear now. Thank you once again.
Would like to confirm if Arahants have distorted sanna? The reason why I’m asking is because one post mentions Arahants have distorted sanna while another say’s Arahants don’t.Kāma Dhātu (With “Distorted Saññā”) Tied to One’s Uppatti Bhavaṅga9. The “kāma dhātu” automatically generates a “distorted saññā” based on one’s uppatti bhavaṅga. Therefore, an Arahant or a puthujjana (average human) will have that initial “distorted saññā.”
Remember that a “made-up” saññā arises even in an Arahant if that Arahant was born in the human realm.<br />Why Would an Arahant Have “Distorted Saññā“?11. That is a consequence of still living with a “vipāka physical body” that the Arahant was born with. Until the death of that physical body, the Arahant must live among other humans.
- That physical body arose due to a kamma vipāka. It will receive not only the “distorted saññā” corresponding to the human realm but also any kamma vipāka that the physical body was destined to receive. While some minor vipāka may be avoided, any strong vipāka can manifest in the physical body. Thus, living Arahants have to endure injuries, sicknesses, etc.
From the most recent post:10. Therefore, taṇhā arises due to “mind-made vedanā.” They arose INSIDE the mind itself and did not come from outside. If external things can cause suffering, we will have to destroy external things to eliminate suffering. However, the Buddha showed that the root causes of suffering are within one’s mind and can be eliminated.- There is no inherent suffering or happiness in ANYTHING external; the sensory contact with an external thing CAUSES pain or happiness depending on our gati and āsāvās.
- An Arahant, who has removed all āsāvās/anusaya/saṁyojana/gati by comprehending the true nature (“yathābhūta ñāna”), is free of “distorted saññā” and therefore of any attachments.
Theruwan Saranai everyone,Initially this post was meant to post segments from Jethavanarama sermons in addition to what Jorg has already shared here, but I agree with what Jorg said “it’s better to watch sermons in their entirety for the best possible context.” Even though I already have some sermons segmented, I decided to drop the idea.– “I just found his explanation of Anicca a bit odd”Initially I felt the same way too. Currently I don’t believe to have understood / comprehended everything about the teachings / explanations or have watched all the sermons, but will continue to learn and put into practice the teachings / explanations. Doing my best to keep an open mind about the teaching of anicca and other teachings from Jethavanarama Buddhist Monastery has benefitted me. Broadened my knowledge of the Tilakkhana and given me some things for consideration, contemplation and to put into practice. So far overall from what I have discerned for myself is that I can’t see why the teachings couldn’t be the Buddha dhamma or how it wouldn’t benefit others.For myself, I find the timing to be more than coincidental with Venerable Lal recent writings on distorted sanna and from what I believe to have understood / comprehended from Jethavanarama recent teachings is also related to distorted sanna. I look forward to continue with the learning and putting into practice the teachings disseminated by the two Venerable Sirs and others.Greetings Bahula,
I was able to meet and chat with Jorg about over a week ago. He definitely would like his article to reach as many people as possible and I’m sure he would have no problems / issues with you translating the article. But he did mention that he hasn’t published his article online or to the public yet because there was something that he would like to do first with the article before doing so, which I can’t exactly remember what the thing was.
Like Lal mentioned, I also don’t think he will have any objections with you or anyone translating the article, in fact he’ll probably be very happy to hear what you mentioned. But I would recommend you not to post your translation of the article online or to the public yet until you talk further with Jorg. In the meantime you can start working on the translation and I’m sure there would be no issues with you posting your translated work online or to the public at a later time.
I also posted in the Whatsapp group (with Jorg in it) about your message, I’m sure he’ll get back to you when he notices or see’s your message and when he has the opportunity to reply.
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