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“If each existence represents different “person”, why should one worry about future suffering?”<br /><br />
Over the years I have seen the same or similar question brought up in different places. I can understand why others might think and feel this way.
What I can say in addition to already what’s been mentioned is that if my memory serves me correctly, I believe it’s a Theravada orthodox teaching that teaches one of the sufferings preta’s (hungry ghost) experience is that the preta’s would remember the unwholesome kamma they committed from their previous lives and unpleasant vipaka such domanassa (unpleasant thoughts), lamentation, pain, grief, despair or the dukkhakkhandhassa would continuously torment (come to back) their mind and body.
Here’s a PD post that can be related to this thread.
A perspective / way of thinking that helped me to see things from another approach is that regardless what myself and others might interpret / believe what anatta means, whether there is self or no self as well the question of whether one should worry about future suffering. As long we understand the 3 characteristics anicca, dukkha, anatta takes effect for any living beings phenomenon / experience in the present and into the future and how no living beings (satta’s) are exempt from these 3 characteristics in any realms of existence. I believe the wise, intelligent, important, right or most sensible thing to do with our current jati would be to strive / walk on the Noble 8 Fold Path to attain nibbana.
Currently we’re so fortunate to have the Buddha dhamma teachings still available to us living beings to learn and practice from. The resources we have today can be considered both unfavorable and favorable for us dhamma practitioners to at least attain the sotapanna stage. For us Buddhist practitioners, we should really use the best of this opportunity in our current jati for the betterment of our life stream and all sentient beings. As one of many examples that could be given, imagine one day being able to guarantee other living beings that one won’t cause / do harm to them. If there’s a path / way to attain such a characteristic, wouldn’t this be a wise / sensible / intelligent thing to carry out as a living being regardless if there’s a self or not?
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Hello Taryal, thank you for the video’s. They were informative and make some good points. Those that believe the Earth is flat would have a hard time to come up with some reasonable answers.Hello Waisaka, in regards to your question if I ever seen the pale blue dot picture taken by voyager, yes I have.“The creature called human at that time did not have a solid body.”“This is my wild thought, humans billions of years ago had a different form than humans today.”I also believed the same before this discussion. It’s been my belief that the first humans on this planet had brahma / deva like body or not solid body like what we currently have. Or I think similar to what Lal wrote in this thread and from the post Agganna sutta.“Why is it like there is no justice in this world if we use the perspective of no-punabbhava.. Only the sammasambudhha can explain very-very well and in detail like abhidhamma. And Buddha also has incomparable love, his love wants beings to be free from the trap of samsara. There is no benefit for Buddha to lie, he previously left power and wealth.From this small thing I am very strong in believing in Buddha, dhamma, sangha. “Wonderful to hear! Saddhu saddhu saddhu!!! May your and others belief in the triplegem and the carrying out of the Noble 8 Fold Path help us all living beings to attain the supreme bliss of nibbana!“Do those actions involve sancetana (i.e., with raga, dosa, moha in mind)?”
My apologize, I should’ve included whether there’s defiled intentions behind the examples given. For the next post in this thread, I’ll work on to better express my thoughts in a more clear and concise manner. Really thank you for your time and energy spent on answering my questions, as well for the experience showing what I can do to further improve.
Thank you sir and sorry for any inconveniences that I might have caused with my previous questioning.
2. I do not know why it asks the question, “What is kaya sankhara?” and goes on to explain the other two types as well.
- But it should not matter. Should it?
I’m not sure, maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. That’s what I’m trying to figure out.
Would moving the “physical” mouth / tongue, nose, eyes, ears be considered kaya sankhara or more specifically when we use our mouth, nose, eyes or ears for a intended purpose? For example, I’m sitting down, my arms, legs, head are not moving at all. Then all of sudden a sight catches my eyes and I would focus on the sight with the eyes without moving any parts of my body besides maybe my eyes. Or I would turn on some music with the intention of enjoying the sound that would go through the ears to the mind. Would such actions or examples be considered as kaya sankhara according to sir or others thinking?
Tattha katamo kāyasaṅkhāro? Kāyasañcetanā kāyasaṅkhāro, vacīsañcetanā vacīsaṅkhāro, manosañcetanā cittasaṅkhāro. Ime vuccanti “avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā”.
English translation
Herein, what is a (volitional) process expressed by way of the body?
(There is) an intention expressed by way of the body, a (volitional) process expressed by way of the body. (There is) an intention expressed by way of speech, a (volitional) process expressed by way of speech. (There is) an intention expressed by way of the mind, a (volitional) process expressed by way of the mind.
This is said to be ‘with ignorance as condition there are (volitional) processes’.
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Based on what’s quoted, I take it the question of “What is kayasankharo”? or something similar is being asked / expressed. My interest lies in the vibhanga then goes on to list the different sancetana’s and sankhara’s kaya, vaci, citta, mano right after, almost like the vibhanga is saying those different sancetana’s and sankhara’s are also kayasankhara?
Seeing “avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā” at the end of the sentence leads me to believe that the vibhanga is saying those sañcetanā‘s and sankhara‘s are “avijja paccaya sankhara”, which I would agree. But what I’m trying to wrap my head around is why would the phrase Tattha katamo kāyasaṅkhāro? be mentioned and then have those sancetana’s and sankhara’s kaya, vaci, mano, citta listed right after? Any thoughts on this?
I know the other sankhara’s (vaci, citta) and kaya sankhara are defined in the Culavedallasutta M.N 44. What’s also of interest to me is that from the P.S. vibhanga English translation and under the same section 1.2 Definition of (volitional) process.
The Analysis of Conditional Origination
I could be mistaken or might have missed, but I don’t see Tattha katamo of the other 2 sankhara’s or “What is vacisankharo or mano / citta sankhara” being mentioned in the P.S. vibhanga and only coming across Tattha katamo kāyasaṅkhāro?.
Hello Nibbid83, may you and all living beings be and stay well.
If you’re interested in supporting some monasteries in Sri Lanka, I can and know someone that help you with that. I have a contact in Sri Lanka whom I sent my money to and she helps me to hold the money and send the money to the monasteries in Sri Lanka at my request. She’s very trustable, I have known her for years and have met her 2 times personally in Sri Lanka, as well she follows and practices the dhamma.
I live in Canada and the problem / issue I found when I send or donate money through the banks to monasteries in Sri Lanka is that the banks usually charge a hefty fee on the transfer. I believe one time at least the bank took like $30 -$40 USD just for a transfer. . . So I no longer use the bank instead I use Western Union. If you would like to know more or have any questions or concerns, you can e-mail me at [email protected] or you can inquire further here in this thread.
A monastery in Sri Lanka I can recommend to support is:
Jethavanarama Buddhist Monastery
I have been to the monastery 2 times and can see they do their best to help all sentient beings. A few PD members are there right now or have visited there. DanielST a former member recently ordained at the monastery.
Starting at 3:20 of the video. My search for the truth
A monastery I’m looking into start possibility supporting is Parama Nibbana Dharmayathanaya
Something for consideration, although it’s important to donate / offer to satta’s with higher merits / attainments. What’s also important is our intention and deeper understanding of the intentions we’re carrying out.
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May you Pathfinder and all of us living beings be well.
“I think it can be helpful to think of anicca with respect to clinging/ panca upadana khanda, on top of how things are conditioned”.
“If we take anicca to be “not icca/ not to our liking”, then it implies that we have icca for it in the first place”
I completely agree that it’s helpful and I’ll add “needed” to think of anicca in relation to the clinging / pancaupadanakkhanda. Definitely beneficial, lots to observe, learn and realize from this teaching. Before last year, I feel most of what I learned and understood over the years in regards to anicca was in respect to pancaupadanakkhanda. But recently something that really helped me to further my understanding of anicca and one of the most simple example I can think of to share what helped me is be based on some modification of your words “I think it can be helpful to think of anicca with respect to how things are conditioned on top of the pancaupadanakkhanda”. The conditioning here I’m talking about isn’t just about the akusala-mula being initiated or with some form of attachment, but relating to all of our experiences / phenomenon. This is my understanding, as long as one is a satta anywhere in the 31 realms, anicca takes effect regardless if one has icca / attachments (tanha, asava’s, anusaya’s) or not, even the Noble 8 Fold Path itself is anicca.
“the puddle of water does not cause dukkha to us, then it would not be anicca too by the logical statement”.
I believe to understand your logical / reasoning, to me the puddle of water or our experiencing of it is anicca itself and like you said “Since anicca, dukkha, and anatta are linked (Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ, yaṁ dukkhaṁ tadanattā – whatever is anicca is dukkha, whatever is dukkha is anatta)”. Since I said our experiencing of the puddle of water is anicca itself, then that means dukkha and anatta follow. My understanding of dukkha doesn’t necessarily just mean “suffering”, but can mean different things depending on the context. Regardless whether the puddle of water cause us dukkha (based on attachment) or not, it would still be considered dukkha to me. If one is not attached to the experience / phenomenon even with right view, I would still consider that as dukkha as well since it’s anicca, but not the dukkha that comes with attachment or the akusala-mula P.S.
“and not that every single thing is anicca”.
If I may ask, based on Paramattha Sacca (4 ultimate truths) rupa, citta, cetasika and nibbana. Besides nibbana, which of rupa, citta or cetasika is not anicca?
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Hello Pathfinder,
This is just my understanding, hope it helps in any way. Anything that’s conditioned, dependently originated or the “all” (sabba) from this world including arahants and Sammasambuddha’s experiences anicca. As well anicca takes effect regardless if one “clings or attaches” to the 5 aggregates or not. The only time when something is not anicca or doesn’t experience it is when it’s “not” conditioned or dependently originated which would be nicca.
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Regarding assāsapassāsā being related to kaya sankhara and assāsapassāsā being defined / interpreted / translated as breathing in this case. Does this mean that rupa and arupa brahma’s don’t initiate kaya sankhara since they don’t have mouth or nose to breath in and out of?
Thank you for the reply Venerable Sir, it definitely helped me to rethink things again. When I said “I’m starting to really doubt kaya sankhara as in and out breaths” maybe that was not the best choice of words. Instead I should’ve shared my idea or the reason’s for thinking so and get scrutiny and feedback.“I tend to think that there are two meanings: In the first case, breathing stops while one is in the fourth jhana samapatti. The meaning in the second case is entirely different.”My current thinking is that “it’s possible” in the first case where maybe something more than just the breath stopping or that it might not even be about just breathing. While in the second case I also believe it’s something entirely different.When I can gather more data and can better share the reasons for my thinking, I do hope to share then for scrutiny and feedback. Thank you once again.1 user thanked author for this post.
“In this sutta, Lord Buddha talks about various objects of meditation (Kasina) which he teaches to his disciples. He even teaches meditation with colours and elements like fire. Is the English translation of the sutta correct or is it a misinterpretation? Mahāsakuludāyisutta
Furthermore, I have explained to my disciples a practice that they use to develop the ten universal dimensions of meditation.”Hope you and every living being are doing well Jittananto,In regards to the question if Lord Buddha taught meditation with colours and elements like fire, there’s been previous discussion’s with the same or similar questions. I hope you’ll find what you’re looking for.Recently I came across a sutta that might be useful to see if the Buddha did teach colour or element meditation or not and if one does believe the Buddha did teach colour and / or element meditation, then the sutta teaches how the practitioner should view / perceive any of those attainments :)1 user thanked author for this post.
Hello Pathfinder,
My observation, I really appreciate the effort and diligence you and others put into your discernment of the dhamma. May the Buddha Sasana help us all living beings on the path to Nibbana. As well thank you and others for your patience and goodwill in your discussions.
“TripleGemStudent: In the sutta’s the formula for any dhatu meditation is always Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti in the end.
This is interesting and it makes sense to me. could you share a sutta reference?”
Here’s the sutta’s reference.
I linked Maharahulovadasutta to the part of internal air element. It show’s in and out breaths being classified as an internal air element and that’s what I mean by breathing meditation is a vayo dhatu meditation. From my understanding, one of the practices is to contemplate on vinnana and all 5 elements earth, water, fire, air, space internally, externally and both internally and externally (ajjhattaṃ, bahiddhā, ajjhattabahiddhā) and in the end see them as Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti or their nature, the Tilakkhana and / or P.S. That’s what I mean by when I said “Observing or focusing on the breath as meditation technique is a vayo kasina or like 1% of the full Buddhist dhatu meditation”. But regardless whether one practices breathing meditation or not, I believe in the end, what’s important is to see and understand the arisen experiences / phenomenon or citta’s, vedana and how they cease and apply teachings like etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti,4 noble truths, tilakkhana, P.S. and other teachings.
One of the forum member mentioned:
“For example, when there is a moment of vaci sankhara starting to lead to something negative, immediately realize it, reflect on the consequences of its karma, and tilakkhana.”
I thought what’s said was simple, practical and another way to say how anapana sati / satipatthana can be practiced / carried out. I would also like to add “not just realizing something negative”, but also positive and neutral. Or sukha (sōmanassa), dukkha ( dōmanassa), adukhamasukha (upekkha) using the teachings on the “all” (sabba) to reflect / contemplate on the tilakkhana nature of what has arisen and know it’s cessation. If one notices they got attached through akusala-mula p.s. or from what Lal mentioned, “panca upadanakkhandha (PUK) (commonly translated as “grasping five aggregates.)” and other teachings on how one get’s attached. Put into the practice of nirodha which is the Noble 8 Fold Path to the attachment (avija, tanha, upadana, so on) process / condition or at all times. We should also reflect on the consequences of those karma or the consequences of our thoughts, speech and actions. To see if it’s in line with the vinaya, doing what we can not to carry out the dasa akusala which does harm to us, others and the world and we go into existential debt. Instead practice the habit of transferring of merits, strive to cultivate kusala, put dhamma and noble 8 fold path into practice.
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