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Thanks for your answers. I have thought about this and i belief, based upon MN44 and other sutta’s sakkaya ditthi refers to identity views. I think SN22.1 reveals what it means when sakkaya ditthi has ended.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.1/en/sujatoIn daily life we live with certain identitiy views such as..i am strong, i am smart or wise, i am optimistic, i am a physical healthy person, a sportmanlike person, etc. We have an image of who we are and we want to be that way.
Those views relate to rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara and vinnana. Reality does not care about our self-views, our images of ourselves. We can become handicapped and the view that we our a sportmanlike person can get really challenged. We can become pessimistic. We can become sick. All we think we are can be challenged.
With sakkaya ditthi we get afflicted when those changes happen and do not harmonise with our self-views. That causes constant stress. When sakkaya ditthi has ended this stress due to changes also dissappears.
I cannot say this is yet true for me.
Siebe
1 user thanked author for this post.
Maybe this is a helpful sutta?
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.60/en/sujatoIt clearly states that rupa, feeling, sanna, sankhara and vinnana is not only painful.
I think it is important not to fool oneself and others and pretent there is only pain in rupa, sanna, sankhara etc. That is not our daily experience, right? There is also pleasure in it.
Some sutta also says that if one does not know a higher pleasure, like jhana, one will seek pleaure in the senses. I belief even the Budddha did. So, i think it is very good to see this and not become judgemental about people seeking gratification in sense-pleasure. It is quit normal.
But the sutta also says that because there is pleasure in rupa etc. there arises lust for it, we get caught up in it, and mind becomes corrupted. This is easy to see with addicted people. They lust very strong for sense-pleasure and they lie, steel, even kill to get pleasure.
When we relate this to ourselves we will see the same corruption in our own mind, maybe not so extreme, but the lust for sense-pleasure makes us cold too, insensitive, it clearly clouds a clear conscience. I remember that lust for a nice girl, (read sex), really clouded my wisdom and i became insensitive. This is quit normal, let us not pretent we our holy man. We are just normal human beings with such craving for sense-pleasure.
A judgemental mind cannot teach, it judges. It places itself above others and alienates from other beings. I belief the Buddha did not. Also when he spoke about sense-pleasure.
The dangers of sensual desires is immediately visible in the aspect that it corrups the mind. What if somebody or something would block the possibility for our sense-pleasure? Probably one will get mad.
One can also see directly to the craving mind. Is that mind happy? No. It is not happy at all. The craving mind is a mind which is hungry, is suffering. So why are those sense desires good when one suffers?
I find it is very easy to see that craving for sense-pleasure is really a burden. If one would not have this craving, one would only miss much pain and suffering and could still enjoy an icecream, a nice cup of thee etc.Thanks Christian!
Yes, Thanissaro translates that those deeds are incurable. This probably means that those 5 heinous crimes lead to hell after death. That’s what Sujato seems to translate.
https://suttacentral.net/an5.129/en/thanissaro
https://suttacentral.net/an5.129/en/sujatothanks,
SiebeThanks SengKiat,
I am more specifically searching for a sutta which clearly states that those listed heinous crimes after death immeditialy lead to rebirth in hell.
kind regards,
SiebeHi All,
Does anyone know a sutta reference that shows the 5 heinous crimes lead directly to birth in hell after death?
thanks,
SiebeLal said:”That is a brief introduction. This is a topic to be discussed in more detail. For example, some people question the practice of “worshipping” Bo trees, stupas, or statues of the Buddha”.
About the stupa, i read something in DN16§5.11 (translation Walshe)
-“A stupa should be erected at the crossroads for the Tathagata. And whoever lays wreaths or puts sweet perfumes and colours there with a devout heart, will reap benefit and happiness for a long time”.
hi, this is also i nice sutta about the need to develop the mind. The chicken and her eggs.
Firewns said:
“Phenomena and things in this world cannot be maintained to our satisfaction in the long run. This understanding is what truly matters to us. It also incorporates the above meanings of impermanence and inconstancy, yet it goes deeper than that to what truly exposes us to suffering”.
Yes, i agree. The sutta’s also make clear this is also true for certain produced states, such as jhana and also the Brahma Vihara’s. They are produced, and anything produced will cease. The sutta’s also make clear that anybody who is firm in this, will reach the ending of asava (MN52 en AN11.16).
So we can produce states but in the end these produced states can also not be a refuge.
However, sutta’s are also very clear that developing and cultivating such states as jhana and the Brahma Vihara’s is very advantageous, merotious. Though, in the end, anything conditionally produced cannot be a safe refuge.
Seeing this, what is wise? Not being intent on producing any state? Be firm in that? Or, still, from time to time, being intent on producing states? We do not have to be afraid of merit the Buddha also says.
siebe
I have once done some exploratory research on Mara in the sutta’s. Maybe i have overlooked but i have not seen in the sutta’s that Mara lives in a certain realm, but i know this is the doctrine. Does anyone has a sutta reference?
Siebe
Hi Mahendran,
an example from SN4.18: …”Now at that time Māra had possessed the brahmins and householders of Pañcasālā, so that they thought: “Don’t let the ascetic Gotama get any alms!”
apparantly Mara can influence thought processes of beings.
Siebe
There are also sutta’s which express Mara can possess beings. An example is: https://suttacentral.net/sn4.18/en/sujato
others examples are: MN49, MN50, SN2.30. AN8.70
Siebe
Hi all,
Maybe you have read, but an impression of Mara’s activities gives Samyutta Nikāya 4, Mara Samyutta and also SN5
https://suttacentral.net/sn4
https://suttacentral.net/sn5kind regards,
SiebeWhen we purify water we only remove adventitious defilements from that water. The natural result is pure water. We do not produce, make, fabricate the water. And defilements never really mix with water, otherwise they could not be removed.
I belief purifying mind works the same way. The natural result of (permanently) removing adventitious defilements is Nibbana. Nibbana is not made, not created, not produced during this process. It is just the nature of mind without any adventitious defilement.
Another metaphor is the sun and clouds. When the clouds disappear the sun appears, but the sun was always there. It is wrong to belief the sun is created while clouds disappear. Likewise Nibbana.
Mind without defilement is unburdened.
If Nibbana was created due to the eightfold path or some practise it would be conditioned. It is not. It is in no way made, produced, fabricated.
The fact there is an umade, unbecome, unborn, undying is, i belief, the stable element in ourselves. I belief in the end there is no difference between ourselves and Nibbana. This does not mean Nibbana must be seen as mine or me.
The idea that an “I” experiences or attains Nibbana is due to kilesa, asmi mana. It is not true.
So, i think, stability is real.
Yesterday on tv was the case of a mother who killed her two children. She was always very caring. But some day developed a depression and took medicine, a antidepressend. Probably these medicine have triggered agression and her violence against her own children.
Can she be held responsible? There are circumstances in which also common law respects that one cannot be held responsible for every deed.
What about children getting brainwashed by IS ideology or sektarian ways of thinking? Those children are loyal to parents, like older kids, called adults, are in the same way loyal to family, country, company, etc. They only want to do good. So they kill do to good, to get a compliment, to proove one is a good child. They even get credit for misdeeds.
How can people be held responsible for such when there has not even yet developed a personal conscience, or right view? How can one say the blind are responsible? The blind cannot be held responsible.
What about a teenager, burning with lust hormones. This poor boy or girl can hardly be seen as a human anymore. She/he has become an animal and is not anymore his/herself. It has become a victim of kilesa’s.
Buddha-dhamma teaches that this is common practise. To think we are so free and wise is a big mistake. Kilesa’s rule our thinking, speaking and acting. There is almost no blamesless thinking, speaking and acting for buddhist and other people.
Can we say we are responsible for not seeing the truth?
Siebe
