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Hi Lal,
I have heard a story of a woman who was pregnant, i belief for about a month, and she was a bit worried. Some day in bath she saw how a small light came towards her and entered her belly. She immedialtely knew she ‘received’ a boy and her worries about the pregnance were gone.
Therefor i was wondering if this timescale of the gandhabba entering the womb really is a few days or might even be longer.
Although i do not question the experience of the woman, ‘a descending gandhabba’ feels for me a little bit as an animistic belief, quit primitive. I also read the Brahmins had this idea. So maybe the Buddha copied this idea of the Brahmins.
I do not know if we must take such images as ‘a descending gandhabba’ literally. I am quit sure you think we must, but i do not exclude the Buddha can have made use of such images as a descending gandhabba as a easy means for a much more complex process of rebirth.
I think a person who wants to do good, who wants to work for the welfare of others beings, will discover that good intentions sometimes have bad outcome. So, he/she will not be comfortable with the idea of having good intentions, but wants to learn about reality and right views. This i see very much in buddha-dhamma.
What do you think of this as description of Nibbida?
-freeing oneself from false beliefs and illusions, and,
-a feeling of no longer believing in the value of something, especially having learned of the problems with it.in fact those are description of disenchantment
If there would be no control at all, purification of mind would be impossible. We would have to follow any upcoming impulse. But we do not have to do that. We can practice satipatthana.
There is some control over the mind and arising phenomena.Moreover, this control grows when the mind becomes more purified. A buddha can even transform his body, duplicate it, can travel, can transform in the elements etc.
“sabbe sankhara dukkha”
I think it means that the Buddha experienced that the ending of all sankhara is also the ending of a burdensome mind. In other words, any sankhara, even vedana and sanna, represent a certain kind of burden. In sannavedayitanirodha there is not even vedana and sanna. This state is not burdensome. It is the highest and most subtle and comfortable abiding (MN31).
There are also sutta’s that describe how jhana in progressive order becomes less burdensome because formations typical for a certain jhana, cease to exist.
Piti may be experiences as a kind of happiness but from the perspective of cessation piti is burden.
I think that anicca–in the end we can maintain nothing the way we like–is not difficult to see or understand but it is very difficult to live with, to really accept, to have peace in the heart with it. THAT is very difficult, i find.
I listened to the desana. I find it to extreme to conclude body, mind, anything is not under control. Being a human is so difficult because ‘controll’ is an extreme but totally no control is also an extreme. Mr. Tennakoon thinks mind, body, anything is not in control. I do not agres. If body would really be out of control, you have a problem. But moving our legs, choosing to do this or that, is not out of control. Urinating, defecating becomes very problematic when this is really out of control, but for most people it is not.
There is also a certain control over the mind. One cannot say, because i cannot concentrate mind on an object for 4 minuten, that this shows mind is not under control. We can control the mind to a certain extent. For example, we can phantasize about a beautiful woman or man and even arise lustful feelings and bodily reactions. We can concentrate on a taks. It is not true that mind is totally out of control.I think ‘there is control’ is an extreme view and ‘there is no control at all’ also is an extreme view.
There is clearly some control over the body. It is not true there is totally no control. We can control moving our arms, legs, urinate, defecate. If it becomes really out of control, we have a problem.
That there is no controll over mind is also an extreme, i find. We are in control to a certain extent. I can, for example, concentrate on a beautiful female form and arise lust and cause bodily reactions while doing this. If i want i can imagine this or that.
That we do not have control about anything is also an extreme.
exactly this middle position makes it so difficult for a human. If we would me totally in controll that would be easy living and if we were totally not in controll too. But it is because we are not totally in control and totally out of controll, that makes being a human confusing. We would lie if we would tell ourselves we are not in control.
We can control our body, mind, surroundings to a certain extent. We can control diseases, life and death, the nature, all to a certain extent. That also gives us a sense of gratification and gives meaning to live.
See beings suffering and make ourselves belief we can do nothing because things are out of control is lying.
Anyway, i do no agree with mr. Tennakoon’s extreme of no control.
“According to the fully enlightened Ven. Ananda in the Gopaka-Moggallana Sutta (MN 108,27) the only kind of meditation that the Buddha recommended was jhana.Thus jhana designates Buddhist meditation proper, where the meditators mind is stilled of all thought, secluded from all five-sense activity, and is radiant with otherworldly bliss. Put bluntly, if it isnt jhana then it isnt true Buddhist meditation!” quote from apparantly Ajahn Brahms.
The Pali sutta’s talks about jhana as a happily abiding here and now. One has to apply insight-mediation while in jhana and while coming out of jhana. (MN52, AN11.16, MN64).
Only when applying insightmeditation during jhana or while coming out of jhana, the asava’s can end. But if one seeks gratification in jhana, that is considered to be bhava asava.
(Bodhi, MN, note 37).True meditation…i belief…can uproot the asava’s and lead to samma vimutti. Jhana on it’s own cannot. But if one combines jhana with insightmeditation it seems like jhana can be a base for the destruction of the asava’s.
In my own words,
When there is a certain lust for the khandha’s, there arises a lust-based vinnana called kamma vinnana via sankhara paccaya vinnana. This is always a mano-vinnana. When there is no more lust for any khandha this lust based vinnana does not arise. The kamma vinnana is a burden for the mind. An agitation. When there is no lust at all the kamma vinnana and it’s burden and agitation does not arise and one is liberated.
What i have understood until now is that those six kinds vinnana do not arise simultaneously.
It is not one and the same vinnana that hears, sees, smells etc. Those are vipaka vinnana.But what is the nature in this very life of this unestablised vinnana, this vinnana that does not grow on rupa, vedana etc? Is it stable? Does it also arise in discrete moments?
Thanks for the translation Lal.
This last unestablised vinnana is that also a discontinues vinnana, arising in discrete moments?
I will try,
This consciousness that does not establish and grow, is an awarennes that only slightly contacts what is being experienced. Slightly, because it does not grow on what it experiences. It knows what arises but does not get involved in it because it does not grow on it. It is a simple and pure awareness and nothing more.
For example pain; it knows pain, pain is felt, but there is no involvement at all in the pain because it does not grow and really become established on the pain. Therefor the phyiscal pain is no burden for the mind. There is attention, there is contact, but no involvement because involvement means this vinnana must grow. That does not happen.
So i would say it is a kind of vinnana that is only aware and nothing more, pure awareness.
Maybe it can be put this way too?
In most deeds, also good ones, there is an ego-centric motive or perspective.
For example, one likes to work in a hospital or with disabled persons because that also gives a good feeling. Ofcourse this is not bad, but is it really pure? What, if this good feeling did not arise or gradually weakens? Does one change jobs?Any ego-centric view or attitude must be deluded/corrupted because of asmi mana.
If one does something good for the purpose of being born in heavens, that is surely ego-centric.
It is very obvious to me that this kind of strategic behaviour, is not really pure.
A pure mind will feel it is a corruption to think, speak, act and life so strategic and self-centered.Therefor i also do not belief that one will ever escape samsara if one becomes a more and more strategic person. What do you think?
