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Hi Lal, thanks.
i tend to belief the sutta’s make clear that the nature of the Buddha is not possible to fathom in worldy terms, and also not our own true nature which is the same as the Buddha’s.
We now tend to belief, based on craving and avijja and identifying with khandha’s, that we are ‘a human’, an “I”, a subject, a living being, a person, a man or woman, but that is only due to deeply ingrained habits.
kind regards,
SiebeThanks Lal, it is clear to me. Somehting is not clear:
When all asava’s and avijja are removed, they are removed from mind, are they not? So, can saupadisesa Nibbana not be understood as the ultimate peaceful nature of the mind freed from all adventitious defilements? Isn’t it just ordinary mind but now freed from all adventitious defilements?
kind regards,
SiebeHi Lal,
I do not understand. As far as i know, the mind of an arahant has become free, definitely, of all asava’s. But he/she still sees, hears, feels, (even pain) etc. Does this not make clear that mind does *not* cease to exist when mind becomes free of asava’s?
kind regards,
SiebeHi Lal, thanks.
Is it correct to say that Nibbana is just ordinary mind, daily mind, (not some mystical or unknown mind) freed from lobha, dosa and moha?
Or, is mind one thing and Nibbana something different?
kind regards,
SiebeThanks Lal, still i do not understand why Nibbana is not of this world, but i put it aside.
Nibbana is often described in a negative way. As somethings that are not present anymore, such as asava’s or craving or avijja.
Is this correct or complete? Or must Nibbana also been seen as the summit of the presence of relative (conditioned) qualities like mindfulness, concentration, metta, mudita etc.
kind regards,
SiebeLal, when the mind becomes free of asava’s does it become free of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting etc? Would that really be the case then an arahant, who’s asava’s have ended, cannot live this life anymore. Attaining Nibbana would make live impossible if this would mean that mind would end too.
I belief a mind of an arahant is detached from “this world” in the sense that it does not get involved in what it experiences with like and dislike or any identification in the form of “this is mine, this I am, this is myself’.
Both craving and avijja are destroyed or ended.At the moment i belief Nibbana is in this world but not off this world in the sense that is does not get involved in “the world”, i.e. whatever we can experience trough the senses it is detached. I belief, Nibbana is just ordinary mind freed of all adventitious asava’s.
Thanks for the answers,
Siebe
Maybe MN19 is helpful?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.htmlkind regards,
SiebeHi Tobias,
A sutta which made things more clear to me is SN22.89.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.089.than.htmlIt makes clear, i belief, until someone is an arahant, with regard to the five clinging-aggregates a lingering residual ‘I am’ conceit, an ‘I am’ desire, an ‘I am’ obsession still remains in the mind.
So, this means (i belief), there is in the mind of everybody who is not yet an arahant a sense of subjectivity in the mind. It is the sense that an I or person does the experiencing, and is alive and will die. This sense of subjectivity keeps colouring mind and this colour keeps controlling also our reactions/behaviour. This remaining colour of subjectivity is the most deepest and intense fetter. The most hard to overcome. A sotapanna has not yet overcome this fetter.
So, although a sotapanna does not fully identify with the body (and other khandha) and does also not regard the body (and other khandha) as his possesion (my own) there remains that lingering residual “i am” conceit in him/her with regard to the khandha’s. There is is still a sense of subjectivity.
A arahant is even free from this residuel conceit “I am”, this residual longing “I am” and this residual obession “I am”. Mind is freed from every sense of subjectivity. Overcome is the deep ingraned habit to belief that a person or subject is living and experiencing. Until this moment avijja-anusaya is not eradicated.
So this shows also, i belief, avijja basically refers to the influence or fetter or habit that initiates mind to belief it is a person, a being, a self, an ego, a subject, who does the experiencing and who is living and will die.
The freedom of the conceit “I am” the Buddha called the greatist bliss.
https://suttacentral.net/en/ud2.1kind regards,
SiebeHi Tobias,
You can read DN3, DN5, DN14, MN56, SN35.74 on Sutta Central. As far i know i cannot refer to alinea’s.
In the Digha Nikāya translation of Walshe i refer to this fragment:
“And as Pokkharasati sat there, the Lord delivered a graduated discourse on generosity, on morality and on heaven, showing the danger, degradation and corruption of sense desires, and the profit of renunciation. And when the Lord
knew that Pokkharasati’s mind was ready, pliable, free from the hindrances, joyful and calm, then he preached a sermon on Dhamma in brief: on suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path. And just as a clean cloth from which all stains have been removed receives the dye perfectly, so in the Brahmin
Pokkharasati, as he sat there, there arose the pure and spotless Dhamma-eye, and he knew: ‘Whatever things have an origin must come to cessation.”This fragment is quite the same in the other sutta’s, but only other persons are mentioned.
In note 140 Digha Nikāya, Walshe says: “The opening of the Dhamma-eye (dhamma-cakkhu) is a term for ‘entering the stream’ and thus being set irrevocably
on the path (…).hope this is helpfull, kind regards,
SiebeListening to a gradual dhamma-teaching and then there is the arising of the pure and spotless Dhamma-eye by al listenor, is mentioned in DN3§2.21, DN5§9, DN14§3.15, MN56§18, SN35.74 (numbers en §§ refer to DN translation Walshe en MN and SN translations Bodhi).
It is said that this arising of the spotless Dhamma-eye refers to Stream-entrence. Is this what you are looking for?
kind regards,
Siebe
