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Only a few (Pannādhika, or with exceptional wisdom) could have grasped the ‘anatta nature’ first.
Therefore, the sequence of grasping anicca, dukkha, and anatta in that order made sense for most people in those days.It seems above part totally makes sense to me now.
However, a few could grasp that sensory pleasures were not in the world, i.e., the sensory experiences are mind-made and are an ‘untruth‘ or ‘na atta‘ (anatta). They could understand what the Buddha meant by saying sanna is a mirage and vinnana is a magician. If one understood that, then its direct implication is that the world has no colorful or tasty things. See “Without ‘Mind-Made’ Perception, World Is Colorless, Soundless, Tasteless, Odorless, and Touchless .”
Regarding above, I observed one thing, the sensual pleasures are real based on my experience (I have distorted sanna, right) but if I believe that it is just a lie somebody or something putting in my mind when I am not looking at my mind, it kind of proves it right away. Its like dreams are only real until we wake up. I mean, I don’t act on thoughts of sensual pleasures anymore but when the thoughts come, if I pay my attention to them, they themselves go away, kind of vaguely shows me that they are really lies. Although I don’t have experiential conviction, believing they are unreal/lies, actually helps get rid of them (thoughts) and continue the normal important work of the day instead of fighting with them mentally. Easier said than done off course.
lal sir, I have been meaning to ask you this about:
At the Arahant stage, complete elimination of tanha occurs with the removal of rupa raga and arupa raga samyojana. At the Arahant stage, ‘mana‘ (or ‘asmi mana samyojana‘) is also removed, along with uddacca and avijja samyojana.
So, what exactly remains if all of it is removed? I mean what would remain? Can we say, just nothing remains?
My understanding is that, in addition to being free from birth, cetana (I understand it as choice or intention as the forerunner of kamma or even kamma itself) of arahants is freed, so there is no death as well for them? Am I correct?
Lastly, how can one realize anatta?Forgive me for diverting the topic…
if one understood the anatta nature, one would have to be a Sotapanna who has already removed Sakkaya Ditthi, Vicikiccha, etc.
I 100% agree with above, and that is how I know that I am not sotapanna, because I don’t understand anattha at all. But at the same time, its hard for me to differentiate between anicca and dukkha. I understand it as, anicca itself is dukkha or anicca is problematic only because it is dukkha and dukkha exists only because of anicca. If there is no anicca, there won’t be dukkha. Anatta is something I cannot comprehend at all.
Also, sir lal, I read this sutta just now: AN 10.60: Girimananda Sutta. Out of those 10 perceptions 1st one talks about anicca and 2nd one talks about anatta, I think. 8th perception talks about dukkha, I think. Off course translation is not perfectly correct. So sir does this sutta says otherwise, against the sequence you said: anicca-> dukkha-> anatta as the sequence of magga-phala realisation?
Also is this sutta irrelevant to this discussion, since it talks about these 10 perceptions in the context of only – as after hearing them mendicant Girimānanda will be free from his illness. I am referring this sutta only because I found that it distinctly talks about 1st, 2nd and 3rd approach. I believed earlier as there are those 3 different ways/sequences for realization but end in same final result, but I see that you said, the sequence is always this anicca-> dukkha-> anatta, so I think my understanding holds no more. Can you clarify please?1 user thanked author for this post.
Hello Lal , (you may have seen my recent reply to Saurabh’s comment, I hope you don’t mind if I restate the contents of that reply with my own post)
I am in a dark place in my life right now, due to the fact that I’ve fallen back into bad habits and patterns. This has been happening for about a month now, and everyday I feel more hopelessness and a feeling that I am not worthy of anything, including studying the Dhamma. I feel ashamed to say this, but I had an argument with my mother (which rarely ever happens), and this past month I have been acting coldly toward both my mother and father, and I feel intense irritation toward them; I know that this is heavy akusala kamma, but sometimes I cannot control myself. They are extremely good at “pressing my buttons”.
Overally, this past month has not been the best one for me. I haven’t visited this website in over a month. I’ve done some akusala kamma, like the instance I stated above, and this makes me feel “dirty”. I have been consumed by kama raga; I feel unworthy to study Dhamma, and I have this belief that I have to overcome these negative habits in order to be clean enough to continue on my path to Sotapanna. But then there is another problem. I have a very little inclination to study the Dhamma, and I’ve lost almost all sense of urgency. Part of me knows that this is a problem, but I can’t bring myself to study the Dhamma,
How do I regain the sense of urgency to study the Dhamma? How do I regain that sense of wonder and reverence to the Dhamma that I once had? Thank you.
Since I thought you were expecting response from me and also it would be good if I address this here than to reply to that earlier reply of yours, here I go.
[Whatever I am trying to say is secondary to what venerable lal sir says.]
It may be hard to believe, but I have been in the same situation as you. I literally was hating my parents so much that I was cursing my fate to have born to them. But thanks to triple jewels (kalyanmitta) that I stopped that. When I got in sense again, I realized that, though my parents, as human beings are not good or not worthy to be followed as they expect me, the very fact that – they have given birth to me, and not just that, cared for me when I was helpless – alone outweighs their current stupidity/wrong behaviour (from my pov) (not just towards themselves but towards some other people). I see it as – even if parents may not understand as I expect them to, their intention is that of my well-being. In buddha’s teachings, intention is central towards karma, so even if they are suggesting incorrect things to me about my behavior or any other thing, their intention is always good towards me! I personally belief that parents are closer to ariya/noble beings than any other being for us, certainly upto some level. See, (I am saying this through faith) noble/ariya beings don’t wish to hurt/harm anyone, furthermore they wish for well-being of others, (forgive my vague definitions), and parents kind of are the same, although only towards their kids (us). They basically can’t hate us outright and cannot wish to harm us knowingly, at all. Then I realized that, I need to grow up fast and stand on my feet so that my parents will actually listen to me. Since then I try sometimes to visualize my parents as they were my kids (I used to visualize my mom as stupid daughter I had without any choice and father as stubborn son I had, and no other way left than to deal with them, off course one of them from another family but now under my care, just for visualization’s sake). Try thinking like that, it might work or give you some other helpful ideas, if this issue would bug you too much. Because one thing I observed from many parents including my own is that, kids are hard to deal with because you can’t even blame them as they have taken birth through you and it was your (parents’) choice. Since then I believe that, dealing with parents (repaying everything they did for you, guiding them towards dhamma, off course only after one has went towards it), is slightly easier than dealing with stupid kids born to you (you definitely don’t have to believe this, its just my opinion).
Regarding those habits (Hoping that my assumption is correct), they are normal I would say, but not good habits in any case. This was vague part, now here is part I heard (though I believe this, you don’t have to unless it logically seems appropriate to you as per teachings of buddha), one cannot attain/be sotapanna, unless the energy goes upward completely. So I thought that those habits actually directly go against that goal of energy going upwards as engaging in those habits makes energy flow downwards. One general suggestion I would give is that, one cannot stop these habits directly by suppression, so think about adding things to your personality/life goals instead of focusing on stopping them directly. You should not have time to engage with them. I heard one saying, an empty mind is devil’s workshop, so make sure you are never idle, as much as you can. (I don’t think this general suggestion would have helped me even a little bit during my past, even if anybody had given it to me, but throwing here just in case)
Lastly I would say one thing, don’t be hard on yourself, everyone has past they would hate (talking generally not about ariyas) and regret, so the first person you should care for is you. In metta bhavana, it starts from oneself, then our teacher/guide (assuming he is ariya) and then our parents and then so on. So I took responsibility of my past habits and actions and forgave myself long ago, mainly because I realized the benefits in not engaging in those habits, so I have just became more selfish (in a good way).
(P.S. – I hope I didn’t say anything I shouldn’t have lal sir. If I did, edit or delete my post, else ignore this. I don’t fully understand what to say where and what not to, yet.)
Thank you for the response sir. I was taking it in a very general context, understood.
Truly, when I think about that analogy in mathematical terms, it is actually not comprehensible! So, basically only buddha can tell about the sufferings sotapanna has become free from! It is mind-boggling, the dirt/soil in one’s fingernail vs the soil of entire earth! Damn, if hearing it is so thrilling, realizing it would be unimaginably satisfying! Those who have realized it must be truly fortunate.
Hello Lal sir,
I wrote this post regarding a concern that I have harbored for some time now. I am aware that one of the four conditions that one must fulfill in order to become a Sotapanna is to associate with noble individuals. I am sure that only Ariyas may be called noble people (but I may be mistaken), and if so, then how would I overcome the issue of not having anyone “noble” to associate with. In the present time, there is hardly anyone at my age who can behave professionally and in a moral manner, let alone achieve a level of enlightenment, and I do not know any adults that are Ariyas.There is one monk at the temple who I trust and look to as a mentor, but it is limited to that only. I am not telling you all of this to complain, but rather to explain my situation. How can I find a solution to this problem?
Thank you!
I personally believe you have met noble person. You may believe it or may not believe it. I see that you have ‘Samvega’ or ‘dhamma samvega’ or urgency about dhamma. That is the reason you seem more advanced than almost anyone at your age. The reason I say this is that, the understanding you have, it automatically takes one to ariya/kalyanmitta, at least that’s what my experience says. Kudos to you! No need to reply, just wanted to let you know this.
Although I am sure I didn’t but if I have misrepresented anything, please forgive me venerable Lal sir.
It could be helpful to read the other thread, where Jaro provided an analogy: “Post on Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta.”
Yes I read that analogy sir. Yes, I understood it and accept it without doubt. It is such a powerful analogy! Thank you for directing me there @Lal sir. I can only try to imagine how great of that happiness will be when the disease of kama raga is healed completely. I bet it will be so awesome! I experience piti in my heart whenever I reflect like this!
Hello venerable @Lal sir. I will try to answer those questions to the best of my ability.
May be I should formulate a question as follows: If our thoughts, speech, and actions are based on ‘false assumptions about the world,’ can that approach ever lead to a satisfactory outcome?
My answer would be definitely no! If thoughts, speech and actions are based on false assumptions about the world, then it cannot lead to satisfactory outcome, even if we somehow manage to visibly force our way, it would just be like taking loan from the bank to become rich, as soon the suffering will follow in some time afterwards inevitably. Even if it seems that we are doing what we want, we are actually not able to do everything we want, as far as my observation goes.
Is there anyone who does not believe the following statement? All living beings (except Noble Persons) have false assumptions about the world. One false assumption is to believe there are colorful things in the world; another would be to believe there are tasty foods, and so on.
I believe that statement. For example, if I am watching any video song for example and I am feeling thrill and enjoying it, then on careful observation I can actually see that whatever changes are happening are inside my mind. Because I don’t feel thrill and enjoyment only when watching video song, I can experience the same thrill and enjoyment while doing any other stuff such as for example sometimes while explaining something (with proof) to my father who has rigid thinking, and he is not able to disagree with me. So the outside object/situation is just symbolic or how should I say, it is just visible cause, but the real cause kind of seems to be generated inside only. But this is almost never my experience, though I believe it because with logic/reasoning, I cannot prove that above statement wrong.
Btw about tasty foods, one thing I like to mention here. Whenever I am eating any food which is tasty, I sometimes think like, this food I am eating, it is not much different from the material we excrete from our body, like it is different only in how the atoms bond together into molecular structures and how those molecules interact. In Dutiyasaññāsutta – Perceptions in details of tipitaka, buddha literally says that the perception or contemplation or reflection on loathsomeness or repulsiveness of food when developed and cultivated, is very fruitful and beneficial, it has freedom from death as their objective and culmination. So if I am eating alone, this fact makes me uneasy because I am not able to prove it wrong with my reasoning. (BTW I do love eating tasty foods)
I’m sure everybody in this forum would at the very least say, “Yes. I intellectually understand that the sannas responsible for the cravings I hold are mental interpretations of an experience completely prepackaged and not commensurate with reality.”
Less people, but still a good amount, will append to that, “However, despite me employing this knowledge and Dhamma, despite the fact that I in real time am doing my best to recognize that this sanna is false, that this experience is simply something that my mind is laminating over to try to make it to my satisfaction, I keep giving in and falling for it.”
I actually belong to both of these kind of persons you mentioned, in a way. I intellectually as well was out of reasoning and due to faith agree with the statement:
All living beings (except Noble Persons) have false assumptions about the world. One false assumption is to believe there are colorful things in the world; another would be to believe there are tasty foods, and so on.
But I don’t do my best to recognise that this sanna is false, because I have accepted it and anyway go about living my life. It just doesn’t seem not wrong to me. So my experience I would say has become little bit more refined and it does not make me uneasy like it used to before.
One must clearly ‘see with wisdom’ that attachment to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka‘ (that means attaching to sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and touches) prolongs the rebirth process. Not only that, but such attachment extends the rebirth process within the ‘kama loka‘ (which includes the human realm and also the apayas).
However, it does not require one to stop attaching to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka.‘ That happens at the Anagami stage.
Still, ‘seeing with wisdom’ the dangers of attaching to sensory inputs is enough to avoid engaging in the worst types of akualsa kamma that can lead to rebirths in the apayas (because of the elimination of the three ditthi samyojana).I can understand this somehow (some of it and not all of it), but my attachment to sensory input is I would say became slightly refined as a result. Its like earlier I used to play with snake at any cost because of my extreme love towards snakes but earlier I didn’t actually know that snake can bite and give me instant death with unbearable, intense, extremely painful suffering just before death. So even now I love to play with snake, only the difference now is that, I am now equipped with knowledge that this snake, which I am playing with, if I don’t play with it carefully, can instantly, at any point give me unimaginable suffering and painful death. I have realized the fact that, if I sit down and started playing with snake continuously, it will inevitably at some point, bite me definitely. This inevitability is kind of same as if we walk continuously, at some point it is inevitable that we will get tired and sit down to rest. The scariest part is the time period after snake bite and before death, because during that time I will experience physical suffering which is previously unexperienced and is of unimaginable excruciating pain before death. So I didn’t for example have this conviction about the danger of playing with snake earlier, but I have it now, so I am careful now unlike I ever was. Although I don’t need to actually stop playing with this snake altogether after I reached this conviction, the time period when this realization of danger of snake dawned upon me, for that very short time period, I really had stopped playing with snake because of being dumbfounded at that time when I realized the danger of snake and as a result, after that short time period, my method of playing with snake has become definitely smarter now. So I would say I have become better player of this sport of playing with snake than I was before. Honestly I have not stopped playing with snake. Because now I understood and accepted the danger of playing with snakes so it does not actually require me to stop playing with snake now, for now careful and smart playing is good enough for me. Moreover I know I cannot stop playing with snakes. I also know and understand that if I want to be ultimately secure and happy, at some point in future, I will have to stop playing with snakes. (Btw I am NOT sotapanna)
If I stretch this above analogy, my experience and observation made me aware of another scary fact, if I had tried to abruptly throw away that snake, there was high chance that immediately it would have bitten me at that moment, so in a way I am forced to continue playing with that snake now. That’s how dangerous this snake is! But thankfully I have become more skillful/careful.
Another example was Channa, who accompanied the Buddha (or rather the Bodhisatta, Prince Siddhatta) when Prince Siddhatta left the palace. He became a bhikkhu soon after the Prince attained Buddhahood, but could not attain even the Sotapanna stage until after the Buddha’s Parinibbana. Later on, when he sought advice from Arahants, they told him to contemplate the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature of attaching to sensory inputs. But he said to himself, “I know all that by heart, but I also know that I have not grasped the Dhamma.” Finally, he sought help from Ven. Ananda. After hearing a discourse from Ven. Ananda, he attained Sotapanna phala. This account is in the “Channa Sutta (SN 22.90)“; The translation there is not great, but one can get the idea
Wow, this account of Channa just proves how hard it can be for some people to experientially understand these 3 characteristics, even if they know it by heart…
I apologize if me being a bit more personal in writing this is inappropriate, but I hope it gives you a better idea where some people are coming from.
I think in my writings I am being more personal than you in your writing, I hope you don’t think it is inappropriate. I am just trying to become as honest as possible.
I am writing this to just share some experience and my opinion because I relate to this very strongly.
I honestly have a hard time keeping such observations fresh and they feel kind of ritualistic in a certain way, because it doesn’t feel like I’m really getting anywhere with this.
I have felt the same. Although it varies person to person, In my case I observed that, too much knowledge is actually not just unconducive to attainment of stream-entry but also makes it harder and harder! Just my honest limited observation ok. Maybe this is the reason the extra observations and concepts which are supposed to be applied after attaining stream-entry (as explained above by venerable @Lal sir), seem ritualistic. I sometimes think my unnecessary extra knowledge is the reason I haven’t yet attained 1st fruition. Earlier I used to read without any preference and just out of want to collect as much information/knowledge about buddha and his teachings but now I don’t do that because the extra concepts would just exhaust me and would give me more and more mental agitation and restlessness resulting in mental exhaustion. Sadly I realised this late.
One must clearly ‘see with wisdom’ that attachment to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka‘ (that means attaching to sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and touches) prolongs the rebirth process. Not only that, but such attachment extends the rebirth process within the ‘kama loka‘ (which includes the human realm and also the apayas).
However, it does not require one to stop attaching to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka.‘ That happens at the Anagami stage.I am able to relate to above actually ven lal sir. I clearly saw the relation of concepts of anicca and dukkha directly in my life, decisions/exertions I made and failed to make, opportunities I got and the ones I missed. I honestly say that I don’t understand concept of anatta experientially/practically, though I may be able to explain it like some textbook scholar from suttas, it wouldn’t be exaggeration to say that I cannot even observe that concept experientially. Concept of dukkha, I sometimes reflect on it and most of the other times I just forget it but the concept of anicca, I am able to observe and reflect on it many times a day, not just while meditating but literally from the moment of waking up in the morning till the moment of falling asleep again at night. I can’t help but see my situation like that of a prisoner who will be executed very soon.
But for my understanding to develop till here, I had to suffer much, to finally accept this truth of suffering and its cause I really had to pay the price in terms of lost opportunities, bad decisions and deeds, much mental as well as physical suffering.. in short it was really painful. Even now I am paying the price. Now presently my condition is that, even if I for example get all the things my heart desires in terms of material life, I cannot forget the truth of suffering ever, I may momentary lose its reflection but it will not go away ever.
But the biggest reason for me to get to this understanding, I would say is the ‘Kalyanmitta’ and faith in ariya or noble being/s. To the best of my understanding, without meeting ariya/noble being, it is not possible to attain stream-entry, however great scholar of buddha’s teachings one is.In my understanding, understanding and accepting buddha’s worldview kind of means being able to observe those concepts of anicca, dukkha and anatta, in one’s life at most personal level – for example in one’s own behavior, in one’s routine for example, in one’s dealing with others, even in one’s body for example and prolonging of suffering filled rebirth process can actually be observed (at least on small level) in even some of the situations in our daily life which we want to get out of eagerly but we can’t and they take their time anyway causing us suffering, whatever we do.
To speak directly, I try to see with wisdom, sometimes (very few times) I am able to, most of the other times I can’t. But in any case it is actually scary, because reality, although liberating, it is ruthless and unforgiving.
I hope I did not make any mistake in above post regarding trying to cite/explain concepts from buddha’s teachings, if I have made any please forgive and correct me venerable @Lal sir. If it is wrong on many levels then just delete my post sir.
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I also had same experiences like you regarding anariya jhana as well as indulges, at about same age as yours. I think I had reached something like closer to 2nd anariya jhana (my present guess, could be wrong though), it was amazing happiness like a still lake and absense of both discomfort and thinking. I stopped trying to reexperience that state many years back. But now I have realized in last 1.5 to 2 years that, the more expert one is in anariya jhanas, deeper in hell one might land! It’s like higher you jump, lower you fall! Anyways, you said, you will focus on the dhamma as soon as the school year is over. I was like that only! I was so much obsessed with reading suttas from tipitaka that I used to hide the sutta books while studying so that my parents wouldn’t know I am reading suttas from tipitaka instead of studying, because my parents have literally scolded me because of my poor performance in school. That was the obsession I had about suttas from tipitaka. I used to think that if I become sotapanna before my final exam, I will score top in my college exam, I was 16 yrs old when I used to think like that. My goal was definitely noble but my conduct was definitely not because I didn’t know how to practice dhamma. Btw I am a dentist now.
I do think that practicing dhamma for attaining sotapatti phala also includes studying enough to score well in exams so that one’s livelihood becomes stable. I think I may have reached sotapanna anugami stage because I have become selfish enough to stop indulges, so my conduct is very good now, I stay mindful most of the time in a day, I have experienced piti many times and I am closer to experience sukha/joy now. So my advice would be that, try to exert your energies more in studies and as much less as possible in indulges. Because engaging in indulges will just postpone the sukha/joy of life, so if one really want to experience sukha or proper happiness in life, one needs to have mindfulness of one’s daily life. In your case this can translate as focus on studying as much as possible and as much less in indulges as possible. I feel because of living like this, although it is still very long and almost impossible, I feel I am progressing towards sotapatti phala, even if it is very very slowly. But I know it is harder than I can imagine. So all the best buddy!
Saurabh asked: “.. let’s say there is an ariya being and I am aware of that, then is it correct as per Buddha’s teaching to mention this in case I think it can be useful to someone and won’t get misinterpreted?”
- It is better not to talk about someone else being an Ariya (Noble Person).
- However, the Buddha specifically stated that one can declare one’s attainment of the Sotapanna stage in several suttas. See, for example, “Bhaya Sutta (AN 10.92).” It describes the ‘qualifications’ one must have to make such a declaration. Of course, it is not necessary to declare even if one believes one has attained it; however, if that declaration helps others in some way, it is a wise use.
Understood. Thanks for the answer sir. I will keep this in mind from now on!
Thank you very much for your encouragement my friend, it helped me a lot on this path! Hopefully I will attain this state one day and even meet Maitreya Buddha in the future by making aspirations day after day. I will defintely watch the video you have sent me.
Once again thank you! Namo Buddhaya!
Hello and welcome buddy! I am amazed that you have this much understanding at the age of 16 years! I can clearly see why venerable lal sir hastily put that post together. I am 29 years old and I see that you have more/deeper understanding about dhamma than myself. I felt literally encouraged when I read your questions and responses. Btw I don’t know if I should tell this blatantly like this, but as your friend I wish to tell you that this website is run by someone who is ariya (noble person). This is my personal belief and opinion based on the way the content is there on this website. Anyways the point is you (including myself) are more lucky than we think. Once again Welcome bro!
Btw venerable @Lal sir, I have related question, let’s say there is an ariya being and I am aware of that, then is it correct as per buddha’s teaching to mention this in case I think it can be useful to someone and won’t get misinterpreted? I am aware that one should not do this because if one is claiming something which is not true then that is lying and breaking of the precepts and accumulation of bad kamma as a result but what if contrary to this one is sure about it, then can one say it in goodwill? (In my place in India also I am aware of one ariya (noble person), so I am asking this in that context as well) (I seem too much direct sometimes so sorry for that)
I hope I didn’t overstep anything. If I did, please delete this post of mine lal sir because I fear unwholesome kamma around and towards noble beings.1 user thanked author for this post.
Damn, The level of discussion is very high! I read all of arguments and responses above, I literally couldn’t process all but continued as I really love reading discussions like this. @Nibbid83 Sir, with respect, I really am amazed with knowledge and expertise you have about many things like logics and arguments and whatnot. My personal experience and observation on this forum/site is that, when you engage with venerable lal sir, in any discussion, whatever he says actually targets one’s internal belief system directly. I have good amount of experience with that.
You said:I will gladly participate in this Sutta discussion with you, but any observer reading this exchange must keep in mind that when you present your counter-arguments, by your own admission, they are based on a subjective, untestable phonetic system, whereas I am citing the explicit, contextual definitions provided by the Buddha in the Tipitaka.
Regarding above, I have one comment (There is also a possibility that I am wrong here), although you said, you are citing explicit contextual definitions provided by the Buddha in the Tipitaka, you are actually using those definitions or content from tipitaka in totally unique way which is entirely based on your personal internal belief system. I am putting this not as argument/criticism, but only as my observation (based on off course my internal belief system as well). And venerable lal sir’s responses, almost always by default engage that internal belief system. Just saying my pov based on my experience ok, I don’t mean to offend anyone. My motivation to write this message was that, I am learning so much from this awesome discussion so I am interested your response. You don’t need to reply to me or this message of mine because I don’t want to be obstacle in the smooth flow of discussion which is going on above.
With much respect.
Thank you so much for the response venerable sir @Lal. Off course I don’t believe jhanas/samapattis are necessary for attainment of magga-phala. I understand that part, I read that more than once here. I got my answers. Btw I also read all the posts marked in your response. Thank you!
I would ignorantly feel very happy with myself if I dream about the Holy Buddha. Yet, it is just a namarupa (sound & sight / name & form); something you see with your eyes and hear with your ears.
As I understand it (not realized though) that all experiences are nāma-rūpa in dependence on consciousness (as per dependent origination/paticcasamuppada), but the path can use skillful perceptions to cultivate wholesome qualities. For example, recollecting the qualities of Buddha (buddhānussati) is praised in suttas for generating gladness, serenity, and samādhi. So even if we see any image in dream, if it leads to faith, generosity, or commitment to precepts upon waking, it can be skillful. Also a wholesome perception that inspires faith, virtue, or compassion is not the same as one that inflames greed or conceit, even if both can be clung to. I also think (same as you) the problem is not the image, but clinging, craving, wrong view, or conceit about it.
Interesting how in dreams you just see and hear, there is no smelling, tasting or touching. It’s like you become a half-brahma… kamaloka form with brahmaloka senses.
But as far as I remember, I have dreamt of eating some tasty foods and I have also experienced sense of ‘touching’ or ‘tactile sensation’ in dreams, ‘flying’ included. Maybe it is subjective. But yes sometimes it is interesting, except the scary dreams though.
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If anyone can provide such a reference in the Tipitaka, that will be appreciated.
Sir, I found it in a sutta from Anguttaranikaya. Following is the reference sutta:
@Lal sir, I hope I did not break any forum rule of conduct.
