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sadhu sadhu sadhu brother!
I don’t know how to address this. Congrats very much, I guess, and I wish you achieve what you are ordaining for.
All the best!1 user thanked author for this post.
No. That is not what I meant.
The difficulty for me was to sort out the correct teachings of Buddha. These days, different people have different interpretations that have evolved (‘devolved’ is the better word) over the past two thousand years.yes yes, understood sir. Also I agree that ‘devolved’ is the better word.
It was Wharaka Thero who started the process of uncovering the correct teachings of the Buddha. Only a ‘jati Sotapanna‘ (who had attained the Sotapanna stage in a previous life) can do that with the help of the Tipitaka books written over two thousand years ago. He would have uncovered more if he had not passed away in 2017. We should all be grateful to him, and also do our best to keep making progress.
I am also grateful to ven. waharaka thero then. 🙏🙏🙏
1. It took me over fifteen years of daily contemplation to get to this point. But as the Buddha stated, his teachings are deeper than anyone can imagine. He said he only taught a fraction of what he realized!
So basically, we cannot imagine/fathom what all lord buddha had realized.
The main problem, as I see it, is that most people don’t know where to get started. Many meditation programs teach ‘Vipassana‘, but even the teachers are not even Sotapannas.
One must be a Sotapanna even to start cultivating Satipatthana, and that must be done before that Sotapanna can start engaging in Vipassana! Engaging in Vipassana is the same as cultivating Satta Bojjhanga.I never seem to be able to disagree with you ven. Lal sir. That is really true. We have expert puthujjanas. But there is no solution for that, is there? I always believed that ariyas/noble beings are very rare, and it is also not easy to recognize them.
Paticca Samuppada says one extends the rebirth process each time one initiates a Paticca Samuppada process with the belief that experience (at that moment) is real.
This is why that process (and the rebirth process itself) can also be stopped within a short time. Venerable Bahiya stopped the rebirth process (i.e., became an Arahant) within an hour! Angulimala attained the Sotapanna stage within an hour after killing almost a thousand people.Wow, this is really thought provoking for me. So it is already happening, even now as I am typing this message or doing any of my work, the process of Paticca Samuppada process is ongoing, is that it? So the underlying cause which continues it is the hidden deeply integrated belief that the current experience is real!? Now that I am trying to understand it, it really makes sense how people like angulimala, even though being monstrous/dangerous killers, literally could see all this process once buddha guided them! This is really amazing. So the difference is only being able to witness/see it and being unable to. Feels like a cheat code for those who can see.
There, rejecting the ‘mundane worldviews’ (‘āpāna‘) is to reject the idea that sensory experiences are real. Embracing the ‘Buddha’s worldview’ (‘āna‘) is to realize that any feeling of ‘sukha‘ and ‘dukha‘ in sensory experiences are triggered by the ‘distorted sanna‘.
So both pleasant as well as unpleasant experiences are due to distorted sanna? My understanding is that all the unpleasant, unagreeable, unwanted things are manifestations of distorted sanna and all that is pleasant, agreeable, wanted, was also the manifestation of distorted sanna but only for anariyas. I also believe that ariyas see the secret or reality, and they know what is suffering and what is not; they know what is really pleasant, agreeable, wanted as compared to what puthujjana/anariya understand by pleasant, agreeable, wanted. They are not same.
So aanapanasati involves various levels and it is not just about discarding harmful and embracing beneficial things. Or it is maybe just deeper meaning of itself.
The best example of that is ‘rupa sanna‘ or the ‘distorted sight’. We see colorful objects, but no such objects exist in the world! In fact, even our ability to ‘see anything’ is generated via that ‘rupa sanna‘. See “Human Life is Unlivable in a ‘Colorless’ World.”
So, it seems to me, that only wisdom can exist in reality, everything else just takes birth and dies, again and again.
The problem is not with ‘seeing’ but with attaching to the vedana (joyful or depressing/angry feelings) and engaging in immoral deeds. However, as long as one does not fully comprehend how those six types of ‘distorted sanna‘ (via the six senses) arise, engaging in such immoral deeds cannot be stopped with ‘willpower’.
Yes, I understand this at some level. Willpower is overhyped. There are some things, which willpower can never even touch.
I vividly remember coming accross this website in 2018-2019, I read the post on the real meaning of anicca, dukkha, anatta multiple times but can’t quite understand it, until I try my favorite way to learn a new concept: pretend we are teaching someone.
Hello friend. That’s interesting way. Btw there are many other forums or websites about buddha’s teachings, but based on the discussions there from the members/admins there, it always felt to me that, what they are actually telling about buddha’s teachings, always had some dilution/distortion because of that person who is discussing that teaching. I never had any ‘aha’ experience that is worth talking but I read many suttas, translations, discussions and even took part in discussions. Almost every other platform just seemed to be talking/speaking through textbook knowledge only. I always believed that there is always a difference between one who is talking about buddha’s teaching (or any part of it) through textbook knowledge and the one who is talking about buddha’s teaching (or any part of it) through actual realization! But my experience changed once I came to this puredhamma.net website. This is just my opinion. So I am glad you found this platform.
In the ‘evolution of the eyes’ model proposed by physics/science, there is no such connection to the next life or rebirth.
That is the basis of the theory of evolution. It cannot, and it does not even try to connect to future lives. Those scientists DO NOT believe in rebirth. Their model is based on a life that ends at the death of the physical body.In my opinion, the biggest proof of (presence of) rebirth is the variations we see everywhere. If there were no rebirth, then everything would be same, without any color! I believe the differentiation in any thing starts only from past causes and variations we see everywhere, including ourselves, are just different effects of different causes. If rebirth were not there, at that point, there are no causes for any differentiation to even start to take place. Idk if I am correct here, but it makes sense to me somehow.
Eyes cannot evolve in sentient beings without there being sentient beings without eyes!
I can really see the logic behind this sentence. It is like saying the tree comes to existence out of nowhere, without believing or knowing anything about seed. In my opinion, the eyes or any other organ, is grown because of causes. Something is there which cannot survive without them and craves something, which requires the eyes or any other sense organ as means.
The rebirth process is sustained by accumulated kammic energies, i.e., via immoral or unwise deeds, speech, and thoughts.
ven. Lal sir, here, can we say that rebirth process is also sustained by accumulated kammic energies, via also the moral or wise deeds, speech and thoughts??
One day, scientists and philosophers who embrace uccheda ditthi (life ends with the death of the physical body because thoughts arise in the brain) will have no choice but to abandon that assumption.
Sir, I used to also think that thoughts could not be arising in brain, but when I read your posts, it just gave me final proofs. I have one thing to add here. In my case at least, when I close my eyes and try to just witness or look inside, it doesn’t at all feels like I am sitting inside my head! Rather it seems I am either present somewhere hidden inside or all over inside, but in any case not inside the head/brain! Because I believe almost everyone has internal monologue, it is like validating one’s own existence continuously, subconsciously and automatically. I believe any one can do this experiment, if one tries to witness by closing eyes, one can see many proofs that thoughts do not arise in brain, brain just receives them and puts on the stage. I see it like, seeing something happen on laptop’s screen gives impression that everything is happening on the screen, but in reality, everything is happening in the cpu, gpu, ram, etc, and screen is just showing the output/result/effect. So brain is like screen and ram, cpu, gpu represent mind. This is not perfect analogy, but it came to my mind.
Ven. Lal sir, I read the latest post titled, “Is It Necessary for a Sotāpanna to Abstain from Sensual Pleasures?”, I felt piti while reading it. I did not understand it 100% but I understood what I understand and what I don’t, 100%. I want to comment on few quotes from that post, and possibly ask questions.
This quote: “It Is a Waste of Time for a Puthujjana to Try to Cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna
3. Many people waste their time trying to engage in Satipaṭṭhāna and Satta Bojjhaṅga (i.e., cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path) while still a puthujjana.”
and this quote about‘Ekayano Maggo‘ Mentioned in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta: “Nowadays, puthujjanās believe they can engage in Vipassanā. For example, ‘Vipassanā sessions’ are conducted in most ‘meditation programs’ attended by puthujjanās.”
and this quote: “That refers only to a Sotāpanna and not to a puthujjana!”I know such people, and they are very close to me. They are like trying to cut the strongest rope ever, using bluntest blade ever! I believe doing that is directly trying to realize ‘dukkha’, without understanding ‘anicca’. You will experience dukkha, but you won’t understand it is dukkha properly, so you will suffer until you realize anicca.
Having said that, this part: “The first step is to understand that sensual pleasures are devoid of value and excessive attachment to them leads to much suffering; this is also called understanding ‘yoniso manasikāra’ (or realizing our attachments are rooted in the perception that sensory experiences are real)”; I can relate to this part actually. I don’t exactly understand that they are unreal, but I confidently know that, whatever they are, that is not something happening outside, rather it is all happening inside mind. Outside is just projected reality because of internal causes. If I could stretch it, our entire personality as well as our conceived outside world, is also a internal projection at some level.
This quote: “If one sees any colors, including white light, that confirms it is definitely not an Ariya jhāna.”. I have actually experienced this more than once few years back, and I know it is just some phenomena, that really makes one believe that one is experiencing something extraordinary and of worth. In reality it is just distraction.
So, if there is a person, who believes he is doing vipassana (while trying to practice it daily, just as you mentioned about puthujjanas trying to practice vipassana) while not at all understanding yoniso manasikāra and on top of that, having wrong view of Uccheda Diṭṭhi at a confident level, does such a person, if he continues what he is doing, have any hope of doing any progress, even if it is very slow?
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Usually, the gati of the parents (especially the mother) must match that of the gandhabba (manomaya kaya) entering the womb.
Hello Ven. Lal sir. Can you please tell me why the mother’s gati is especially more important? Does that mean it depends on the mother what kind of child is being conceived, in terms of jati sotapanna, ariya, or just puthujjana? And what role does the father’s gati play?
I always believed that mother’s gati plays more important role in what kind of gandhabba or manomaya kaya is entering the womb, but I never understood how and why.1 user thanked author for this post.
Mara Devaputta is the leader of the highest Deva realm. Some say he can affect others’ minds. But I am not certain that he can affect the mind of a Sotapanna.
Even humans can affect other humans’ minds. Not with telepathic powers, but just by talking to them. That can go both ways. For example, one always learns the Buddha’s teachings from another person.Yes it makes sense, really. I got my answers. Thank you sir.
Of course, anyone with even the slightest faith in the Buddha would have asked the Buddha to stay alive as long as possible. The maximum lifespan at that time was around 100-120 years.
This actually answered my question.
Venerable Ananda was a Sotapanna, so if he understood the question, he would definitely have asked the Buddha to stay alive as long as possible.
Yes I also believe that he simply did not understand the hint and that’s why later regretted so much. He had 3 chances and he didn’t say a word for even 3rd time, so he just did not understand that, at that time.
Some say that Ven. Ananda’s mind was influenced by the Mara Devaputta. But I don’t want to speculate.
I forgot to mention this Mara Devaputta thing in my last message. Just a related question, is Mara Devaputta capable of doing such thing? I have always understood that when one is emotionally intense/wrong and takes decisions out of attachments and avijja, in such case one is always under the influence of Mara Devaputta. Am I correct here?
This issue does not affect our efforts to attain Nibbana. It is better to focus on issues that are relevant to that goal.
Yes sir. I understand this. I just don’t want to leave any regrets before reaching final goal. That is why I am asking these not-much-beneficial questions. I request you to answer above remaining questions, then I will stop. Your responses actually answer my questions and also other questions that I had but not asked.
I would like to comment on your earlier post as well.
what I mean here is that something being unreal is not ultimate reality/argument in the context of Sansara because things unreal can still be enjoyed,
yes, I agree with above. But this is the case only when the anatta is not fully understood, although partial anicca and dukkha may have understood.
You can not skip over “fulfillment”; you can skip over “unreality” (as explained above) – that’s why I see those things as the same, as they are in the same “bucket,” while ultimate truths (ie. Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta) are something that you can not really “counter” with anything.
Because one does not understand anatta, one cannot skip over “fulfillment”, that’s how I see it. That “fulfillment” provides the remaining conditions to understand anatta, which are ‘anicca’ and ‘dukkha’. With this understanding, I actually agree with you here about – “one (puthujjana) cannot skip over ‘fulfillment'”.
Let’s assume understanding that “things are not real” grants entry to Nibbana, but for most people it would be a much “harder” entry point to understand,
I guess you are saying here that ‘anatta’ is hard for most people to understand, hence it is harder entry point to understand. Agreed, that’s why, not realizing anatta, we have dukkha.
as they have nothing to relate to in the process; they are missing steps of realization, and they just “assume things” based on their personal bias-authority.
Basically, by “they have nothing to relate to in the process; they are missing steps of realization”, I think you are saying that they have ‘avijja’ which is ignorance of ‘anicca and dukkha’. By “and they just ‘assume things’ based on their personal bias-authority’, you mean that they don’t understand ‘anatta’. Am I interpreting you correctly?
(ie. I respect Dhamma, so I just think what they’re thinking) which, in the end, turns out to be “Things are real = things are not real”.
By above, Do you mean these 2 types of people: 1. those who think unreal things are real and 2. those who just believe that unreal things are not real in reality, so the reality we see must be unreal, but out of faith only; Do you mean that these 2 people are same? if you mean that, I can’t seem to agree on it.
On top of that, other “philosophies” speak about the illusion of this world (ie. maya), which can be easily confused, but Buddha Dhamma is unique logic and arguments that “hit the right spot” towards realization.
Yes, other philosophies just have ‘avijja’, they can’t understand ‘anicca, dukkha, anatta’. Even if they believe that world is unreal or maya, they are still describing how a blind person would imagine something he has never seen and doesn’t even have any single parameter, and actually having all the wrong parameters to imagine it.
I would not put the explanations about rupa not being real (even if that’s true) above what someone could relate to; if they can have a lower-level entry, the higher ones become irrelevant
I would say here that, higher reasonings are not irrelevant. If one understands lower reasonings or have lower entry, at that point he does not mis-understand higher ones even though he may not understand higher ones.
I hope I didn’t misinterpret you anywhere.
Good. Learn more about the Idappaccayata Paticca Samuppada process. It explains how the mirage of ‘distorted saññā‘ arises in all living beings. A recent post: “Idappaccayatā Paṭicca Samuppāda – Bhava and Jāti Within a Lifetime .”
- That will remove any doubts about the Buddha’s teachings and eliminate the first three bonds (samyojana) that bind one to the rebirth process. Those three samyojana are about wrong views about the world, i.e., that the world offers lasting happiness.
- Any happiness that a puthujjana feels at times is equivalent to the elation felt by a deer in a desert seeing the mirage of water at a distance. So, they happily run toward it, but of course, die at the end exhausted by that effort. See “Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta (SN 22.95)“.
I will read those posts again. Thank you for the answer sir!
By the way, most scientists and philosophers who understand that colors, tastes, etc., are not ‘real’, can attain the Sotapanna stage easily if they learn the Idappaccayata Paticca Samuppada. See the discussion in the other thread: “Post on ‘Noble Truths on Suffering – World Operates on a Falsehood’”
Wow, so they are actually close to being able to attain sotapanna stage, but sadly, their kamma doesn’t allow them, I feel sad about such people. I am following that other thread as well.
In “ignorance is the vital condition for choices”, it is better to write that as “ignorance is the vital condition for sankhara“. ‘Choices’ is not the meaning of sankhara.
So, what I understood as choices as 2nd step after avijja, is actually sankhara. I will keep that in mind.
btw sir, I tried this today only, when I was doing my normal beneficial work, thoughts of distraction came and I immediately recalled death and all the associated sufferings and immediately I felt piti throughout the body, literally. Off course the distraction went away like water becoming vapor and I got back to my clear state of mind. Contemplating on even 1st noble truth is so powerful and beneficial, I am amazed. I used to consider the 1st noble truth as very negative and discouraging thing long time ago but now I am realizing it is actually positive! Not just neutral but positive. I don’t know for sure but it seems to be like that now.
Buddha said “nobody who has genuinely entered this teaching leaves empty-handed” in MN22
Yes, it is really wonderful. I am in fact not empty handed, I have received many benefits.
I’m just posting this so you don’t get discouraged; even if you cannot get a full understanding, you will not leave this world empty-handed.
Thank you for your kindness! I might have sounded discouraged, but I am very positive actually. I was not discouraged but in any case your comment is very encouraging!
See, there is no mind in the universe with the atta capacity that can extract anything substancial from anything belonging to this world, nor one that can command the five aggregates as desired. Nothing inside the 31 realms has anything in it to be had, which is asārakaṭṭhena, essencelessness. This covers what you have banked as much as what you reach for: accumulated kammic energy and the good rebirths it buys are of the same nature, because every such existence ends and the fall follows. When the holding is over, nothing remains that was gained, and the holder is left without refuge.
Thank you for the explanation. It is dangerous for me though. As far as I understand, if one truly understands anatta (experientially), one is sotapanna, it is kind of like, if one has ‘Ariya’ jhanas one is anagami at that point. So when I look at myself I can clearly see that I don’t understand anatta and I am not ‘Sotapanna’. Another thing is, as I understand it, realizing anatta is like seeing the final refuge, witnessing the shore, witnessing truth finally. So in my opinion as long as one does not realize anatta, one is like a virtual or video game character, who has start, an end, hence dukkha (or even vice versa). I believe it without doubt, but it is more like belief I got due to my past good kamma, but not experiential realization, yet.
When I try to observe myself, I see vulnerability everywhere, for example this body, which is home for so many suffering possibility, it is unreliable, in other words, our body is not unbreakable or unconditioned, it is breakable and conditioned. Even the breathing is vulnerability as I have dependence on it, breathing stops, I die. So it is like – I am not suffering, I am the ‘suffering’ or it is like – I am not experiencing dukkha, I am the ‘Dukkha’. I don’t see anything that does not have vulnerability. I believe, realizing anatta would be like witnessing invulnerability or unconditioned or truth, for the first time. I don’t think I can ever believe this statement, “Everything is ok”, ever in my life, until I experience invulnerability. Doesn’t matter even if all the material desires are fulfilled, some vulnerability will always be there, even if everything is solved, sickness, old age and death is there, I will have to face it some day if not today. this realisation that ‘There is vulnerability everywhere’ or ‘I don’t have realization of anatta’, will never leave me. Although I still believe whatever it is, it is positive and not negative.
borrowed goods
I have thought about this as well lal sir. I always understood that, the craving or raga is inside not outside, outside appearances or forms are just means. So the ‘borrowed goods’ seems actually another perfect analogy. Even engagement in sensual pleasures just makes that urge go away, it does not give satisfaction, because we are using borrowed goods. It makes sense, because if I see one enchanting form, it is not the form has special power, rather I have granted that form a special power due to my defective source code. Its like my internal source code has set to actually react and respond in a non-ariya way, the moment such appealing form input is registered by eyes. So its the source code inside which interprets outside and gives reaction which inevitably becomes cause of suffering in the long run, and in the short run, it is unreliable as the input is coming from outside! Ignorance is bliss, i.e. it is happiness only until I don’t observe this source code’s automated reaction to the input of appealing form through eyes, but once I observe, I realize that it is a set-up! I am just trying to use borrowed goods to achieve something, that these borrowed goods can never help me achieve. To be honest, I feel deceived.
The ‘anatta nature’ is first ‘seen with wisdom
I am just realizing that, how difficult above actually is.
