[cubibobi]

Thank you, Lal, and I just read the post “Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti”, which clarifies some more.

So, is it correct to say the following:

1) Nibbana means either Parinibbana or Nirodha Samapatti.
2) Phala Samāpatti, including Arahant phala samāpatti, are still “this world” because there are citta running.

Lang

[cubibobi]

Hi all,

I came across this forum recently. Like the rest of the site, it is greatly educational and particularly timely for me since I recently had a discussion about nibbana with someone, and I’ll call him or her X. I have a few questions, and will phrase them based on a couple of points of discussion I had with X.

1) X said that for a person “in nibbana”, the mind “stops” or “ceases”. Asked to elaborate, X said that for that duration all desires for the mind to grasp at anything in this world are gone, so there is no reason for the mind to exist. I suppose that X meant that there was no citta vithi flowing, but X doesn’t know abhidhamma.

Per our discussion here, I think X must have meant nirodha samapatti, although X doesn’t know these Pali terms, and I now see that this explanation is not adequate: the mind “stops” not just in nirodha samapatti but also in the asanna realm. Thus, the mind “stopping” may nor may not have relationship to nibbana, correct?

2) To X, nibbana is an either/or phenomenon; one is either “in nibbana” or in this world. Again, per our dicussion here, there is a connection between nibbana and this world, in the case of Arahant phala samapatti, i.e. the pabhassara citta (still “this world”) is in contact with nibbana. Is this correct?

Also, elsewhere I have heard of the terms nibbana dhatu. Is nibbana dhatu what is in contact with pabhassara citta during Arahant phala samapatti?

I appreciate any elucidation on these, and I greatly appreciate this forum, since prior to this my view on the nibbana experience was pretty much the same as X’s.

Best,
Lang

[cubibobi]

Fascinating experience!

vilaskadival wrote: ” ..Then suddenly felt was thrown into something and I fell down from my bed and was perplexed on what happened.”

Would that “throwing” be the force of kamma?

[cubibobi]

Another thought, just out of curiosity:

Can devā and brahmā who are attha purisa puggala be included in Sangha?

[cubibobi]

Terrific, so

Sangha = “san” + “gha” ⊃ bhikkhū / ni and bhauddhayā who are attha purisa puggala

… and that’s why we take refuge in Sangha in the Triple Gem? A person who is removing san is a reliable source of refuge, not someone who is accumulating san just like we are.

[cubibobi]

Awesome. “bhava” + “khaya” make great sense. Thank you!

This reminds me of other “bh” words you have explained elsewhere, such as:

buddha = bhava + uddha
bhauddhayā = bhava + uddha + yā

We would not have known on our own that “bhava” was embedded in these words. In fact, for a very long time I really wanted to know what “buddha” really meant, and English translation such as “the enlightened one” or “the awakened one” did not make a strong impression. Knowing “bhava + uddha” makes the meaning clear from the word itself.

It does seem, however, that bhikkhu and bhauddhayā mean the same thing: one who strives to stop bhava; but bhikkhu is someone who has left home, and bhauddhayā is a householder, correct?

[cubibobi]

Hi

I just read the new post:

Kamma are Done with Sankhāra – Types of Sankhāra

Kamma are Done with Sankhāra – Types of Sankhāra

… and I thought this may be the right forum to post a question instead of creating a new forum.

One thing I took away from the post was that sankhāra comes before kamma; if we were to sketch the various flows of things, would the following be accurate pictures (for a normal human):

manō sankhāra → manō kamma

Or

manō sankhāra → vaci sankhāra → vaci kamma

Or

manō sankhāra → kāya sankhāra → kāya kamma

Thank you,
Lang

[cubibobi]

Hi all,

What is the Pali breakdown of the word “bhikkhu”?

The translation of “bhikkhu” as “mendicant” or “beggar” is rampant in many sources; the same thing happens with the translation of many other Pali terms.

I felt very lucky to have come to puredhamma.net, where I can learn the correct explanation about concepts behind many Pali terms. Not only that, Lal breaks the Pali terms into components, and that makes it easier to remember their explanation; of particular help is the list of words made out of “san”.

Sadhu!
Lang

[cubibobi]

Hi,

We’ve had quite an extensive discussion about Goenka’s technique, but I just read Lal’s wonderful post about vēdanā and would like to add a little more. The post is in the “Living Dhamma” section:

https://puredhamma.net/living-dhamma/what-is-vedana-feelings/vedana-what-it-really-means/

Jumping right to the end of the post, Lal summarized vēdanānupassanā as:

• vipāka vēdanā needs to be experienced with upekkha.
• Samphassa jā vēdanā are the ones to be stopped.
• Nirāmisa vēdanā are the ones to be cultivated.

The first bullet practically describes the whole Goenka’s technique.

The technique does not work with Samphassa jā vēdanā because they are considered to be “reflected” in vipāka vēdanā (2 sides of the same coin). To experience vipāka vēdanā with upekkha is to indirectly experience Samphassa jā vēdanā with upekkha.

Nirāmisa vēdanā are not considered at all. Based on my understanding of this technique, here’s my speculation: all of vēdanā is to be transcended. Vipāka vēdanā, gross and subtle (such as bhanga described by Nikita) arise and pass away, and seeing this fully is seeing anicca. And transcending vēdanā (arising/passing) is to see nibbana (non arising / non passing). Saying this is somewhat like saying to get rid of all vēdanā (as Lal pointed out in the post that some people believe this), I think.

Finally, one question about the post: what about vēdanā arising from mind input? Does it also start as upekkha vēdanā, and then (for a normal human) turn automatically into dōmanassa or sōmanassa vēdanā?

Thank you!
Lang

[cubibobi]

Hi Nikita,

The experience you described is referred to in the Goenka’s tradition as bhanga (dissolution), NOT the bhavanga (dormant state of the mind) as explained in abhidhamma.

I never experienced bhanga when I used to practice in this way, but I read extensively about the “stations” in the Goenka’s technique. You’re right that it’s not something to crave for, but it is also recognized as an important “station”, because it means that the mind is sharp enough to experience such subtle vibration.

Recall that this technique takes bodily sensations (representing vedana) as the main object of observation. It starts with the breath just to sharpen the mind for this task, and as the mind is sharp enough it can perceive sensations arising and passing rapidly.

Also, “anicca” in this tradition means the arising and passing of sensations, and so bhanga is an important stage because the mind is perceiving this arising/passing at a very subtle level.

I know nothing by experience about kasina, jhana. I just want to point out the bhanga/bhavanga distinction.

Best,
Lang

[cubibobi]

Dearl all!

I’d like to revisit this thread after a few months’ absence. Ever since I had the fortune of knowing puredhamma.net, I have learned so much, and recently I set up a self cultivation program to make it more structured:

1) Learning Dhamma — from puredhamma.net, other books, and listening to desanas (mostly online, some of which are from Lal).
2) Stay away from dasa akusala the best I can.
3) Perform meritorious deeds (mostly dana)
4) Cultivate anicca sanna as prescribed in some posts here.

I am wondering if the process works something like this: some day when my mind is ripe AND I listen to a desana, AND the person giving the desana is an Ariya, THEN there may be something in that desana that gives me a “push” toward the sotapanna stage; this would fulfill the element of “listening to saddhamma” by an Ariya.

Is this how it more or less works?

Thanks!
Lang

[cubibobi]

Hi all,

I hope this question is suitable here: has anyone found a way to make cockroaches go away?

When I see one in my home, I use a container to catch and release it. However, my gati of wanting to kill them is strong (I almost called an exterminator a couple of times). If I can make them go away then the killing gati will come up less (I hope).

I’ve been reading the gandhabba and abhidhamma posts, so I checked out this forum. It’s fascinating to see the various kamma and correlated rebirths listed in this thread.

Thank you,
Lang

[cubibobi]

With some more searching, I found this which looks like mahayaha material:

http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/maudgalyayana.htm

Regardless of the nature of the above source, it seems like he traveled, and got lost, physically, and that he was able to do this because of his supernormal power?

[cubibobi]

Thank you for the clarification of vicikicca, and especially the added explanation of khanka vicikicca.

I did some searching and found this:

Mahanama Sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn55/sn55.021.than.html

I wonder if this is related to what you said about Mahanama.

For the case of Mahanama, his angry instances were then patigha and not vayapada, but he on his own could not tell the difference?

I did not find anything about the story of Ven. Moggallana getting “lost”, and here I do have some doubt, I must admit. Wherever Ven. Moggallana “went”, it would have been in one of the 31 realms, would it not? Someone of his caliber certainly would not have been lost in one of those realms. Just a thought.

Thank you,
Lang

[cubibobi]

Thank you, Lal, very much for a detailed explanation in response to my post, especially the explanation of “vedanā-samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā”. In this case, dhammā is synonymous with bhava, then?

After about 10+ years of practicing this, I started having doubts about whether it could remove defilement, by observing behaviors in me and in those in my group. I then had doubts about vedana being explained in this particular way to suit this technique. Your explanation clarifies a lot.

Lang

[Author]

Posts