[Lal]

Yes, Taryal. That is an example of the following interpretation of “paraloka” I stated above:

“When a human dies, the gandhabba comes out and stays in that state for many years until entering another womb. In that case, it is said that the person has gone to paraloka, meaning from the world we can see to “the world of gandhabbas.” This is a somewhat common saying in Sri Lanka.”

• In the case discussed in the video, gandhabba went to “paraloka” for a short time and came back to the same body.

• This reply was modified 1 week ago by Lal.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

In other contexts, paraloka could mean different things.

• When a human dies, the gandhabba comes out and stays in that state for many years until entering another womb. In that case, it is said that the person has gone to paraloka, meaning from the world we can see to “the world of gandhabbas.” This is a somewhat common saying in Sri Lanka.
• I have also seen moving from the human realm to another realm called “moving to paraloka.” 
• I have heard the second usage in some English translations but don’t recall the suttas.

 I have not investigated such cases in the suttas. If you come across translations with the above meanings, we can look at them.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

As I said above, LGBT is primarily a mental issue (except for the kamma vipaka aspect).

• You are trying to explain it within “worldly ideas/perceptions.”
• Issues like this cannot be debated because you are arguing from a different point of view.
• The Buddha referred to his teachings as “not subject to debates” (“atakkāvacaro“). See, for example, “Bodhirājakumāra Sutta (MN 85).” “‘adhigato kho myāyaṁ dhammo gambhīro duddaso duranubodho santo paṇīto atakkāvacaro nipuṇo paṇḍitavedanīyo” OR “‘This Dhamma I have discovered is deep, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of mundane logic, subtle, comprehensible to the wise.”
• That verse appears in several suttas: DN1, DN 14, SN 6.1, MN 72, MN 95, Iti 43.

P.S. Of course, someone can say, “I believe mine is the Buddha’s version.” So, it is up to each person to decide. I can only explain how I see it; your analysis may make sense in your mind. We have to leave it at that.

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taryal

[Lal]

Hello Jittananto,

As you point out, this sutta describes Nibbana: There is no earth, no water, no fire, no wind; no dimension of infinite space, no dimension of infinite consciousness, no dimension of nothingness, no dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; no this world, no other world, no moon or sun.

• Everything except paraloka in the verse describes all the realms associated with the Erath (our cakkavāla).
• There are billions of other cakkavālās in the universe. All 31 realms are associated with each habitable planetary system (cakkavāla). See #2 of “31 Realms Associated with the Earth.”
• Thus, paraloka (no other world) means none of those also belong to Nibbana.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

New Post:

Pāth to Nibbāna – Learning Dhamma to Become a Sotapanna

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jennydo

[Lal]

LGBT is primarily a mental issue. 

1. There are two sexes in humans. However, abnormalities can occur in a tiny section of the population. 

• There is also a tiny fraction born without any sex organs. That is comparable to being born without a sense faculty, i.e., some are born blind.
• All those are kamma vipaka.

2. When we grew up, this was not a significant issue. It has been the same throughout human history.

• How come some 10-20% of ONLY Western societies have this issue now? As I said, it is a mental issue. 
• Teenagers are susceptible to all sorts of insecurities. It should be a crime for parents to allow sex change drugs and operations on their kids without careful consideration. For example, if a child has both types of sex organs (I don’t even know whether such cases exist), such actions make sense. But it is a drastic and immoral action to try to change the sex organs a child is born with.

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Jittananto, Waisaka

[Lal]

Thank you for the analysis. It seems the Chinese Āgamās is not any better.

• I will analyze the Satipatthana sutta in detail in upcoming posts. 
• If anyone refers to “assasa passasa” as “breathing,” that is enough to reject that analysis. 

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pathfinder

[Lal]

I asked Grok (Musk’s AI): “Has anyone published work comparing Chinese Agamas with the Pali Canon (Tipitaka)?”

Grok (version 3, the newest): 

Yes, several scholars have published works comparing the Chinese Agamas with the Pali Canon (Tipitaka), focusing on their similarities, differences, and implications for understanding early Buddhist teachings. Below is an overview based on available information up to February 22, 2025:

 

Key Scholars and Works

 

1. Bhikkhu Anālayo
   • Notable Work: A Comparative Study of the Majjhima-nikāya (2011)
   • Focus: This extensive two-volume work compares the Pali Majjhima Nikaya (Middle-Length Discourses) with its Chinese counterpart, the Madhyama Agama. Anālayo examines parallel texts to highlight doctrinal consistency, textual variations, and transmission differences. His analysis often emphasizes how these texts align in core teachings while noting divergences in phrasing, structure, or additional content in the Agamas.
   • Significance: Anālayo’s work is widely regarded for its meticulous detail and is a cornerstone for comparative studies of early Buddhist texts. He also explores specific discourses, such as the Nandakovāda Sutta, in articles like “Attitudes Towards Nuns” (2010), comparing Pali and Chinese versions.
2. Bhikshu Thich Minh Chau
   • Notable Work: The Chinese Madhyama Agama and the Pali Majjhima Nikaya: A Comparative Study (1991)
   • Focus: This book provides a detailed comparison of the 222 sutras in the Chinese Madhyama Agama (from the Sarvastivada tradition) with the 152 suttas in the Pali Majjhima Nikaya (Theravada tradition). It covers structural differences, such as the division into vargas and fasciculi, and subtle doctrinal variations, offering insights into how these traditions evolved.
   • Significance: Written by a Vietnamese monk-scholar, this work is valuable for its accessibility and focus on bridging Sarvastivada and Theravada perspectives.
3. Marcus Bingenheimer
   • Notable Work: Studies in Āgama Literature (2011) and articles like “Two Sūtras in the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama without Direct Pāli Parallels” (2013)
   • Focus: Bingenheimer compares the Chinese Samyukta Agama with the Pali Samyutta Nikaya, identifying texts unique to the Agamas and analyzing their potential as later additions. His digital projects, such as the Digital Comparative Catalogue of the Pali-Chinese Agama Literature, facilitate cross-referencing between the two canons.
   • Significance: His work combines textual analysis with digital humanities, making it easier for researchers to explore parallels and divergences systematically.
4. Bhikkhu Sujato
   • Notable Work: “The Pali Nikāyas and Chinese Āgamas” (online article, available via SuttaCentral)
   • Focus: Sujato provides an overview of the relationship between the Nikayas and Agamas, arguing that they represent parallel transmissions of early Buddhist teachings from different schools (Theravada for Pali, Sarvastivada/Dharmaguptaka for Chinese). He emphasizes their doctrinal similarity despite linguistic and stylistic differences.
   • Significance: As a practical scholar-monk, Sujato integrates these comparisons into SuttaCentral, a platform hosting translations and cross-references, enhancing public access to these studies.
5. Choong Mun-keat
   • Notable Work: Contributions to translations and comparative analyses, such as annotations in The Madhyama Agama: Middle-Length Discourses (BDK English Tripitaka series)
   • Focus: Choong has worked on translating Agama texts and comparing them with Pali equivalents, often highlighting minor differences in terminology or narrative detail that reflect sectarian influences.
   • Significance: His efforts support broader translation projects, making comparative insights available in English.

Broader Collaborative Efforts

 

• BDK English Tripitaka Series: This project includes translations of the Chinese Agamas (e.g., The Madhyama Agama: Middle-Length Discourses, Volumes I and II, edited by Anālayo, Bingenheimer, and others, published 2013–2020). These volumes often include notes comparing the texts to their Pali parallels, such as the Dirgha Agama with the Digha Nikaya.
• Comparative Catalogues: Works like Chizen Akanuma’s The Comparative Catalogue of Chinese Agamas & Pali Nikayas (1929, later editions) provide foundational mappings of corresponding texts, though they lack detailed analysis compared to modern studies.

Key Findings from Comparisons

 

• Doctrinal Consistency: Scholars like Anālayo and Sujato note a high degree of agreement in core teachings (e.g., Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination), suggesting a shared origin before sectarian splits.
• Textual Variations: Differences include additional sutras in the Agamas (e.g., predictions of future Buddhas, as noted in Reddit discussions), variations in style (less stereotyped phrasing in some Agamas), and occasional Mahayana-like insertions (e.g., in the Ekottara Agama).
• Transmission Insights: The Agamas, often linked to northern schools like Sarvastivada, may preserve older elements lost in the Pali Canon, though the Pali Canon is the only complete surviving set of early texts, as discussed in forums like Dhamma Wheel.

Surprising Detail

 

One intriguing finding is the presence of a sutra in the Chinese Agamas where the Buddha predicts a disciple will become a future Buddha—an element absent in the Pali Canon, despite similar prophecies about Shakyamuni himself (e.g., from Dipankara). This has sparked debate about whether such additions reflect later interpolations or lost Pali material.

Conclusion

Yes, significant published work exists comparing the Chinese Agamas with the Pali Canon, with contributions from scholars like Anālayo, Minh Chau, Bingenheimer, and Sujato standing out. These studies illuminate the shared heritage and divergent paths of early Buddhist texts, offering rich resources for both academic and practitioner audiences. For deeper exploration, Anālayo’s Comparative Study or the BDK translations are excellent starting points.

__________

 

I have not even read the above answer since I am working on the next post.

[Lal]

This is a good question.

• I know that Bhikkhu Bodhi started researching Chinese Agamas several years ago. But I don’t think he published any results. I didn’t know whether he learned enough Chinese to complete the task.
• Only someone fluent in Chinese and knowledgeable in the Buddha’s teachings can answer this question.

It would be beneficial if anyone who has read Chinese Agamas could give their opinion.

[Lal]

Yes. It is excellent, Lang.

• It is not easy to distinguish between diṭṭhi and saññā.
• Your analogy of a magic trick is a good one.
• I will discuss the analogy of an alcoholic in the next post. The following is part of the text there.

“There are two steps in overcoming attachment to sensual pleasures: (i) “See with wisdom” that it is unwise to attach to sense pleasures. When this understanding sinks into the mind, three “diṭṭhi saṁyojana” (sakkāya diṭṭhi, vicikicchā, silabbata parāmāsa) will be broken with the removal of sakkāya diṭṭhi. (ii) Even though the wrong view of sakkāya diṭṭhi is removed, one would still attach to sensory pleasure due to the “sense of pleasure” arising via the distorted kāma saññā. To overcome that “distorted kāma saññā” (which is built-in to our bodies), a Sotapanna must cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna. That leads to the removal of two more sansaric bonds/Saṁyojana (kāma rāga and paṭigha), leading to the Anāgāmi stage of Nibbāna.

• The following analogy can give the basic idea. An alcoholic will be able to “see” that drinking leads to many adverse consequences, including health risks, by reading medical literature. That understanding can eliminate the “wrong view” that drinking is good for you. However, it takes an additional effort (usually therapy sessions) to overcome attachment to the “pleasure saññā” generated by having a drink. Just “seeing with wisdom” that drinking can have harmful consequences is not enough. That second step is equivalent to removing kāma rāga (and patigha) by overcoming kāma saññā. That requires cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna. In the analogy of an alcoholic, therapy sessions are comparable to cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna.”

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jennydo, cubibobi

[Lal]

See whether the following series of audios can be helpful:

Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses

[Lal]

1. Brahmas cannot smell. It has only the sight and hearing. The taste, touch, and smell faculties are absent in a Brahma. That is why it is not called a “gandhabba.”

2. Yes. Even the human gandhabbas can go through walls. 

3. A gandhabba can become a bit denser by inhaling orders of flowers, etc. But their “bodies” are still invisible and they can go through walls.

4. Is there a question there?

5. Since it cannot feel touch, a gandhabba cannot have sex. 

• Petas are a different category belonging to the apayas, a lower realm. 
• A human gandhabba belongs to the human realm. Our essence is a gandhabba; the dense physical body is just a shell. All sensing faculties are in the gandhabba (hadaya vatthu is the seat of the mind, and the five pasada rupas are effectively the five senses.
• See “Manomaya Kaya (Gandhabba) and the Physical Body“

[Lal]

Yes. A human has a subtle/invisible “manomaya kaya (gandhabba)” and a physical body.

• Brahmas only have a manomaya kaya (no physical body), which is not called a gandhabba.
• In humans, a gandhabba enters a womb to initiate the formation of a physical body. Between two consecutive births with physical bodies, a human gandhabba lives without a physical body.

[Lal]

Yes. What Yash wrote makes sense.

However, I don’t think the following can happen: “..It’s possible that a Sotapanna can become a pornstar and have sex with multiple partners, ..”

• The mindset of a Sotapanna is unlikely to make that happen.

______

Regarding the issue of Visaka keeping “slaves.” Those are probably more like “servants.” When thinking of slaves, one may get the idea of “forced labor.” I don’t believe a Sotapanna is capable of that.

• For example, when I grew up in Sri Lanka, it was common to have servants in the house. We had a couple, and I remember playing with one my age. They were sent to school and treated nicely. Those were mostly children from poor families who could not provide even food for them; the parents voluntarily asked my parents to take care of them. It was not “forced labor.”
• These are complex issues that must be considered based on the specific situation.
• There was also a “slave woman” (Kujjuttara, I believe) who became a Sotapanna and taught Dhamma to others. Thus, she was obviously free to listen to the Buddha’s discourses.

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Yash RS, Jittananto

[Lal]

Hello upekkha! For those who don’t know her, upekkha used to post regularly a few years ago.

Following is my comment on that thread (upekkha referred to):

“It is not about kusala and akusala kamma. 

• For a puthujjana to start comprehending Buddha’s teachings, they must first live a “moral life,” where the base level of “morality” is to abide by society’s standards. That is the only “morality” they know. The key point is to have a calm mind to start understanding Buddha Dhamma.
• When a puthujjana engages in an action not approved by society, their minds become agitated, which is not conducive to learning. Thus, if society approves having multiple wives, they don’t need to worry about having multiple wives.
• If the Buddha had started changing societal norms, that would have taken most of his lifetime. Of course, once one becomes serious about attaining Nibbana, it may be better not to have a single wife (i.e., to become a bhikkhu). 
• In that context, even keeping slaves was accepted by society at the time of the Buddha. While the Buddha did not consent to that practice (obviously an immoral practice by any standards), he did not try to change it, which would have taken most of his time. 

One’s moral values will change as one advances on the Path, but this change cannot be forced in some cases.”

______

I just revised the highlighted sentence to make things a bit more clear.

• Of course, the Buddha would not encourage polygamy or slavery. But those were standard practices in that region in those days.
• As I mentioned above, If the Buddha had started changing societal norms, that would have taken most of his lifetime. 

Upekkha asked: “1. Can that comment be backed up in the Pali Canon?”

• Yes. Visaka was a wealthy woman who attained the Sotapanna stage at age seven. She had slaves. Anathapindika was another wealthy Sotapanna who had slaves.  
• King Bimbisara was a Sotapanna, too. He had a harem with many women (as was the practice those days.)
• It is hard for us to believe, but those were standard practices. 
• There were also instances when the Buddha asked some slaves to become bhikkhus because he saw they could attain magga pahala. No one got in the way in such cases.

Upekkha asked: “2. The Buddha is a symbol of morality and knows more than anyone right from wrong.  Thus how could it be that he defined morality based on societal acceptance?”

• The practice of polygamy or keeping slaves is not moral, according to the Buddha.
• But if he started changing societal practices, that would have taken most of his time.
• Instead, people changed their practices over time, even though this probably happened long after the Buddha. Some kings, for example, gave up their harems to become bhikkhus. Rather than forcing morality, teaching how to be moral is better.

Upekkha wrote: “3. I highly disagree that the Buddha defined morality based on societal acceptance.”

• I agree with you. He never defined morality that way, and that should be clear to anyone familiar with Buddha’s teachings.

[Author]

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